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Old 01-19-2020, 04:58 AM   #1
Dennis852
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2020 Raptor 356 & 2020 Fuzion 373

Hi all,

The wife and I are in the market for a new toy hauler. We are upgrading from a travel trailer and have the 2020 raptor 356 or the fuzion 373 in our sights. We were set on the raptor until we went looking again yesterday and met with a keystone rep that explained to us that the fuzion is superior to the raptor. For some small extra features. We like both layouts that are similar but the fuzion comes with the island and 4 barstools, East/west master suite and also an insulated garage.

Has anyone seen any information on the insulated garage? I can not seem to find anything about it. Also if you have knowledge or experience with both brands could you please share them.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:36 PM   #2
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Hi, well not sure what the basis of the reps argument was on fusion being superior but my wife and I spent a long time researching both as well. we found them to be pretty close unbuild but thought the Raptor has higher end finishes. Our sales rep from one store said that fusion was better and yet a salesman from same store different location said raptor was better. We ended up buying a 2020 Raptor 351. Just loved the finish and construction best.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:30 PM   #3
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Not sure what to day about insulated garage. Walls and roof are the same build as the rest of the unit. Do not know what's all under the floor, but I do know there is 2 steel fuel tanks under there and the steel tie downs are attached to the frame. You will have a big heat sink there. There are no floor vents and I expect that there may be a bit of insulation under there some where. In the cooler weather, it is kinda cold back there.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:11 AM   #4
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As for "better" or "luxury" or "upgrade" here's what the Keystone website indicates:

Fuzion starting price $97209 length 39'0" weight 13599
Raptor starting price $91854 length 39'0" weight 13371

It looks like the Fuzion starting price is $5355 more, the length is the same and the weight is 228 pounds more.

There's obviously some differences, either in build materials, equipment differences or upgraded "somethings"....

According to Keystone's advertising, the Fuzion is more expensive, heavier and likely to have "improvements/added features" over the Raptor.

What these are ??? It's going to take more than a casual glance at a brochure or a website to find all the subtle differences.
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Old 02-02-2020, 01:01 PM   #5
Dennis852
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Thanks for the replies everyone. We ended up getting approved for the raptor 356 and decided to go that route. To me the overall fit and finish feels better in it. Our local dealer wanted to give us pennies for our trade in on the fuzion. The raptor dealer offered 4K more and they also offer a free limited lifetime warranty that covers a lot of the trailer.

Some of the things I did not like about the fuzion. The plastic faucet in the garage bathroom, the very thin and cheap kitchen backsplash, the non blackout curtains in the garage, the small toilet space with the East west master suite, the loss of bathroom storage with the East west mater suite and the overall outside appearance. To me it looks super outdated and was a step back from previous years.

I know I am nitpicking here but when making such a large purchase that will be with the family for long time I wanted to make sure we were 100% satisfied. Now for the dreaded 3 week wait for our trailer to arrive from the factory.
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Old 02-02-2020, 05:45 PM   #6
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Congratulations on your new trailer. I hope that the delivery goes well, the PDI doesn't identify any problems and that you can remember at least half of what they tell you during the PDI

As for the "lifetime warranty" all I can suggest is that you read the small print carefully. That program is likely to cost you more than any aftermarket extended warranty and probably will cover less as well. The way they "get you" is in the small print that requires all maintenance to be done at the dealership, regular roof inspections, again done by the dealership, on most, winterization (you guessed it, must be done by the dealer) and we won't mention "de-winterization" but read the small print carefully. If all those things "must be done by the dealer and paid for by you".... Chances are, after the first year, you'll be tired of paying the dealer to seal your roof, winterize your trailer, inspect the brakes/bearings and lube your wet bolts.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:01 PM   #7
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I was warned of that and lucky for me that they do not require the dealer to perform the maintenance. It seems pretty straightforward. It does not cover anything but to me something is better than nothing. We always purchase extended warranties so hopefully between the 2 we can get all the bugs worked out and have a long lasting trailer. Here is the info if you wanted to take a look at it.

https://www.rvtravelworld.com/rv-warranty-forever
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:21 PM   #8
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So I take it they will trust you did the inspections/ maintenance? How do you document it?

I’m a bit skeptical.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis852 View Post
I was warned of that and lucky for me that they do not require the dealer to perform the maintenance. It seems pretty straightforward. It does not cover anything but to me something is better than nothing. We always purchase extended warranties so hopefully between the 2 we can get all the bugs worked out and have a long lasting trailer. Here is the info if you wanted to take a look at it.

https://www.rvtravelworld.com/rv-warranty-forever
The old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, chances are that it's too good to be true" applies...

Here is the link to the Warranty Forever website. http://www.rvwarrantyforever.com/ click on the "maintenance coupon" button about half way down the page. It will open the document that must be submitted to the underwriter annually. Note the statement just under the addresses to which the maintenance document must be sent:

It reads: "Reminder: All maintenance must be performed by a professional repair facility."

Also, in the FAQ section of that same website is this:

Can I perform my own maintenance?
No, all annual maintenance must be performed by a professional repair facility. This ensures proper documentation, as well as the workmanship of all services performed on your RV.


Nothing at an RV dealership is "free"... not even the coffee in the waiting room.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:29 PM   #10
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John, once again you beat me to the punch. I have filled out that form a time or two. Figure on about 2-3 hrs labor to complete the inspection, since all the drums have to come off.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:43 PM   #11
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Chuck,

The "forever warranty underwriter" suggests that the annual inspection is "around $250" That's at a labor rate of $75 an hour. From what I can see, even "shade tree mechanics" charge more than that. In this area, the "forever warranty inspection" is roughly $375 plus materials. They all charge for at least 2 tubes of DICOR sealant and a pound of bearing lube plus 4 seals. That comes to roughly $450 a year.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:44 PM   #12
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Ahhh good catch! All the other dealers had warned me about the fine print. Of course they advertise nothing about the not so fine print on their website. Either way if it’s a couple hundred for an annual inspection I’m good with that.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:47 PM   #13
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I bet the labor rate in Folsom is north of $150/hr. I suspect your annual inspection will be $450-$500.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis852 View Post
Ahhh good catch! All the other dealers had warned me about the fine print. Of course they advertise nothing about the not so fine print on their website. Either way if it’s a couple hundred for an annual inspection I’m good with that.
As with any contract, the BIG print giveth and
the small print taketh away.... Watch that small print or you can easily "lose your shorts" (with your wallet in them)…

You can be sure that whoever told you that you could do the maintenance yourself is in sales, not in the warranty or service department.... If a salesman's lips are moving, chances are he's lying to make a sale..... And, you KNOW he won't be around when something breaks and the warranty is void because of no maintenance documentation being filed with the underwriter.....
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Old 02-03-2020, 10:15 AM   #15
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If you are going to own an RV you have to be handy. If you're not handy you better be rich. Various dealers "offer" this life time warranty. Some even claim a "FREE" lifetime warranty. But as several of you have said, an annual inspection at that dealer is required. That inspection varies in cost but a few hundred $$$. Materials extra and you know there will be some. Parts extra, etc. If a person doesn't know which end of a screw driver to hold then they need to be in category 2 of RV ownership and be prepared to frequently exercise category 2.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunker View Post
If you are going to own an RV you have to be handy. If you're not handy you better be rich. Various dealers "offer" this life time warranty. Some even claim a "FREE" lifetime warranty. But as several of you have said, an annual inspection at that dealer is required. That inspection varies in cost but a few hundred $$$. Materials extra and you know there will be some. Parts extra, etc. If a person doesn't know which end of a screw driver to hold then they need to be in category 2 of RV ownership and be prepared to frequently exercise category 2.
Totally agree with these statements, not to mention the possibly several weeks it will be parked at the dealership waiting it's turn for that expensive inspection.
If you don't have the know how or physical ability to do most of the routine annual
repair work or the ongoing repairs/maintenance that will occur EVERY time you use a RV then you may be better off buying a vehicle that gets great mileage & stay in hotels, it would be cheaper & less headaches/expense.
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