Carbon297 hitch question

SS 8541 · 06-02-2015, 07:19 PM

Hello guys and gals. My wife and I take delivery of our new Carbon 297 this week end. The wife really liked the the Carbon 327, but I told her I felt that that would be too much camper for my 2005 GMC crew cab SWB 4x4 6.6 duramax truck after looking a the towing spec.. I know the 297 are pushing the limits already. Salesman said I could tow either one!!!! Having said all that.....I have the B&W fifth wheel hitch in my current tow vehicle and currently tow a 2011 Prime Time 5er without any issues with clearance between the front cap and the rear of the TV cab, BUT it appears that the pin box is not as long on the Carbon as it is on my old 5er. So my question is this....am I gonna have to get a slider hitch to tow the Carbon with my current TV.....upgrading the TV is out of the question at this time, I'm hoping to hear from current Carbon owners with similar TV. Thanks in advance.

firekat96 · 06-03-2015, 08:33 AM

We have a 357 and it's no way I could get by without a slider.

You could always go with the BW Companion.

cb1000rider · 06-03-2015, 10:40 AM

Salesguys.. never trust them with the "will it tow" call. I was told that a 327 will tow with "any" 3/4 ton truck.

That being said, I towed it home with a 2500 dodge 6.7L megacab and it pulled just fine. Had a bit of squat and loaded, it might be a bigger deal. I'd need airbags for sure. Long term, it'll be pulled by a DRW 3500.

With the megacab - which has a shorter bed than yours, the 327 needs a slider. We're going to install an auto-sider so I don't have to mess with it.

SS 8541 · 06-03-2015, 10:47 AM

Thanks for the responses, I have a B&W Fifth wheel hitch, Just not the slider, So I'm guessing that I'm gonna have to bight the bullet and get the slider. I was afraid of that, but oh well, That is why I have a job

cb1000rider · 06-03-2015, 01:09 PM

If you've already got the hitch, the other option is to get an auto-extending pinbox. Apparently this is a better option than getting an auto-sider 5th-wheel hitch, as the auto-sliders have gears and tend to incur more noise. Adjusting that trailer means you can typically get a air-ride or better riding nose up there too... Likely it's less expensive to do the trailer too.

In practicality, I have experience only with a manual sider, which is a pain... Our truck gets the auto-slider installed tomorrow. If I had a 5th wheel hitch already, I'd be looking at resolving it trailer side via an auto-siding pinbox.

**chuckster57** · 06-03-2015, 05:55 PM

Do you have a link to the auto sliding pin box? Ive not seen one, and would be interested in how it works. I have seen/installed several different sliding hitches, and a few "revolution" pin extenders, but haven't seen a sliding pin box.

cb1000rider · 06-03-2015, 06:14 PM

I'm new to this 5th wheel stuff, so going on what I learn from a buddy. I stand corrected, it doesn't slide, but it rotates at the original kingpin position, which gives you greater distance to the cab in a turn. Essentially it moves the pivot point.

Here's a sidewinder setup that rotates, which keeps that 5th wheel away from the truck in a turn:

http://www.amazon.com/Reese-Sidewind.../dp/B004R3CAUE

Apparently the fit is specific to the trailer/kingpin setup...

**chuckster57** · 06-03-2015, 06:33 PM

The sidewinder bolts to the pinbox and then you have to install a "capture plate". The capture plate keeps the pin box in a straight line and allows the trailer to pivot at the original king pin position.

It works great, and is a viable alternative to the sliding hitch depending on pin weight.

cb1000rider · 06-04-2015, 05:53 AM

One downside (I just discovered) at least with the superglide auto-slider, is that they prescribe a maximum connect/disconnect angle of 16 degrees... This is a bit of a concern for me, as I'm currently parked in a location that will require a 20 degree or so departure and attachment angle. As such, I may have to remove the head...

SS 8541 · 06-04-2015, 08:33 AM

I've been researching the Reese sidewinder and a RV technician told me that the rotating pin box is ok for some 5ers, but in my case I'm towing a toy hauler and that the pin weight is more on Haulers, therefore a traditional pin box with a sliding hitch is best. The tech told me that he feared the additional pin weight of the hauler would put too much stress on the pin box. I pointed out that a 19,000 lb version was available and he said that his concern would be the pin weight, not the total weight of the trailer. What do you guys think?

Face Down · 06-04-2015, 09:43 AM

Quick look at the specs of the Sidewinder 19K says it can handle a pin weight of 3800#'s which is well above what your 297 will be. A Keystone rep also told me that the published pin weights were established at GVWR (16500#) but I have not had my 357 on the scales yet to verify that.

http://www.reeseprod.com/products/pi...W5HmrD0dOeuq1z

**JRTJH** · 06-04-2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Face Down

... A Keystone rep also told me that the published pin weights were established at GVWR (16500#) but I have not had my 357 on the scales yet to verify that.

I would question that Keystone rep's statement. My Cougar is listed at 1230 pounds pin weight. GVWR is 10,000 lbs. That would be 12% pin weight. It's much closer to 1800 pounds at GVW. Our Springdale had a pin weight of 1120 lbs with a GVW of 8105. When loaded it was much closer to 1600 pounds.

I haven't seen any pin weights published by Keystone that look like they are based on GVWR. I would have to ask how they are loading them to get the pin weight since user loading (ahead/behind the axle) would greatly affect the pin weight at GVWR. I'd believe that the published pin weights are "as shipped" based on what the "standard model weighs. That's with empty propane tanks and no battery BTW.

I'd say that most toyhaulers are "pin heavy" when empty. That's because once the "toys are loaded behind the axle" the pin becomes lighter. If it were configured so the pin was "minimal" when empty, it would be very "pin light" once you loaded anything heavy in the garage.

Face Down · 06-04-2015, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I would question that Keystone rep's statement.

Ya I took it "with a grain of salt" but crunching the numbers it does seem feasible. When I head down to Myrtle Beach in August I will get on a CAT Scale off of I-95 and verify. Here are the numbers and why I am not totally discounting it....

Advertised Shipping Weight - 12595# (Yellow sticker "shipped" weight - 12780#)
Advertised Pin Weight - 3060#
Advertised GVWR - 16500#

Pin % at Ad. Ship Weight - 24%
Pin % @ GVWR - 18.5%

It is probably somewhere in the middle...

I know "marketing" numbers are not REAL numbers...proved that the first day with my 38'11" camper that is over 40'!

gtsum2 · 06-04-2015, 05:29 PM

I have a 19k sidewinder (my fuzion 345 chrome has GVWR of 16500) with my B&W 3600 hitch and it works great (6'4" bed). However, my B&W hitch is not mounted on a gooseball like the companion is....B&W does not recommend the companion hitch with the sidewinder (as the hitch could theoretically turn on the ball and you would have 2 pivot points...not good). The sidewinder works great though..full lock to lock turns with plenty of clearance

PS - my loaded ready to camp pin weight (without toys in the back) was only about 200lbs more than listed pin weight). The yellow sticker weight of 13570 was pretty close as it weighed 14535 I think it was loaded up ready to camp....the Keystones seem to be pretty close on their listed weights compared to some others

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