These videos make my head hurt F250vsF350

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Rayray04

Understood but can some one list the actual differences minus a dually

Originally Posted by 77cruiser

That's what I'm saying, but some don't look at that, the only thing is the yellow door jamb sticker.
If a Toyota Hilux had a sticker that said 3000 lbs. PL would you pull a 5th wheel with it?

Automobile manufacturers, like Keystone, don't always publish their "trade secrets". Getting an "exact list of differences" between an F250 and an F350 or a 2500 and a 3500 from GM or Chrysler are very much like getting a plumbing diagram or an electric schematic or a sidewall structural plan from Keystone....

Some things, it seems, are "left for the internet U-Tube stars to postulate".....

As an "afterthought", trying to "nail down Ford" is similar to trying to "nail down your surgeon" with an "exact answer" to the question: How many stitches will you use to close my surgical incision?.... If your surgeon gave you an exact answer, and then needed to add a couple of sutures to better close the wound...... Then, if Ford did provide an answer to that question, and then next year, needed to make a production design change, think of all the "information overload" that would be "wrong and creating false narratives about current and future models".... From their management perspective, it's probably best to simply not provide any information to the public. After all, we've been buying every one they build for years without that information, why would Ford, GM or Chrysler want to "ripple the water" now ????

[Ribtip]

He did make some good points. As far as brakes on the ram anyway the 2500 and 3500 has the same brakes. I never heard him say to ignore the payload sticker he actually said if you need more this truck may not be right for you. That video wasn't all to bad. You still have to follow the law with the weights regardless. If your in weight your in weight.

[sourdough]

You know, folks like in that video.....why? So, what IS the difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton? Looked for many years and found all kinds of things over the years. The biggest things? The things you DON'T know or not told to you.

Now, WHY (WHO) is anyone worried about the differences? Those that have 3/4 ton trucks are the ones always saying there is no difference. WHY is to justify towing overweight because they think they "actually" have a 1 ton.....they don't in reality or legally.

That despised "yellow sticker"? It is federally mandated and displays legally required weight limits for a vehicle. Those numbers are for the owner to know and abide by...they say MUST not exceed, not "unless you think you can carry more" - at all. Only a foolish person, IMO, thinks that they could sit in front of a jury after being involved in a catastrophic accident and say....no, it's really a 1 ton its got "dah de dah de dah" after the prosecutor has asked about the previous yellow sticker and gvw.

Nah, I've spent a lifetime building what I have. My intention is to keep it and make sure DW and I live a long, full life.....not throw it away thinking those things don't matter because I "know more". Generally it's younger folks that want to promote these ideas and maybe they have the rest of their lives to rebuild what they have....I don't; and it's sure hard to do that from a jail cell.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by sourdough

You know, folks like in that video.....why? So, what IS the difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton? Looked for many years and found all kinds of things over the years. The biggest things? The things you DON'T know or not told to you.

Now, WHY (WHO) is anyone worried about the differences? Those that have 3/4 ton trucks are the ones always saying there is no difference. WHY is to justify towing overweight because they think they "actually" have a 1 ton.....they don't in reality or legally.

That despised "yellow sticker"? It is federally mandated and displays legally required weight limits for a vehicle. Those numbers are for the owner to know and abide by...they say MUST not exceed, not "unless you think you can carry more" - at all. Only a foolish person, IMO, thinks that they could sit in front of a jury after being involved in a catastrophic accident and say....no, it's really a 1 ton its got "dah de dah de dah" after the prosecutor has asked about the previous yellow sticker and gvw.

Nah, I've spent a lifetime building what I have. My intention is to keep it and make sure DW and I life a long, full life.....not throw it away thinking those things don't matter because I "know more". Generally it's younger folks that want to promote these ideas and maybe they have the rest of their lives to rebuild what they have....I don't; and it's sure hard to do that from a jail cell.

Amen... Amen...

[AF0DJ]

Dont know about the newer RAMs but the only difference between the 3/4 and the 1 ton 2006 was the extra leaf spring and the all important "yellow sticker". I added air bags to carry the load without noticeable sag and luckily never had to stand in front of that jury. I finally wised up and bought a RAM 1 ton dually.

[notanlines]

"Now, WHY (WHO) is anyone worried about the differences? Those that have 3/4 ton trucks are the ones always saying there is no difference. WHY is to justify towing overweight because they think they "actually" have a 1 ton.....they don't in reality or legally."
Truer words were never spoken.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by AF0DJ

Dont know about the newer RAMs but the only difference between the 3/4 and the 1 ton 2006 was the extra leaf spring and the all important "yellow sticker". I added air bags to carry the load without noticeable sag and luckily never had to stand in front of that jury. I finally wised up and bought a RAM 1 ton dually.

Well I was in the somewhat same boat for about eight years 2001 Ram 2500,CTD Camper Package, Tow package, Optional 265/75-16E tires. Many considered this the SRW 3500 that Ram didn't offer from 1994 to 2002. The camper package had the 3500 DRW springs in the rear.
Unlike AF0DJ I didn't need bags to two within 300# under rear axle rating.
I also stepped up to a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW.

I will add it is the yellow sticker is NOT your limit, it is the Axle and GVWR numbers from the vehicle certification label that have been on vehicle as long as I remember.
The Payload sticker came along in 2006 and the available payload number is only good until that vehicle arrives at the dealer's lot! If the dealer add equipment to the vehicle that payload number is no longer valid. That is why one must weigh to know what is really available for payload.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well I was in the somewhat same boat for about eight years 2001 Ram 2500,CTD Camper Package, Tow package, Optional 265/75-16E tires. Many considered this the SRW 3500 that Ram didn't offer from 1994 to 2002. The camper package had the 3500 DRW springs in the rear.
Unlike AF0DJ I didn't need bags to two within 300# under rear axle rating.
I also stepped up to a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW.

I will add it is the yellow sticker is NOT your limit, it is the Axle and GVWR numbers from the vehicle certification label that have been on vehicle as long as I remember.
The Payload sticker came along in 2006 and the available payload number is only good until that vehicle arrives at the dealer's lot! If the dealer add equipment to the vehicle that payload number is no longer valid. That is why one must weigh to know what is really available for payload.

I'll have to disagree!
That yellow sticker payload weight is NOT the dry weight of that truck!
But will agree anything the dealer or the buyer adds to that truck has reduced the payload of THAT truck.
I'll also agree in the past the axle weights were the limiting number. Apparently in the past there must have been an issue, probably an accident, resulting in the need nowadays for the max payload number. Unfortunately none of the manufacturers post/advertise the real numbers people need, but are constantly advertising "able to tow a XXXXX LB trailer" which only creates another confusing useless number.
If you adhere to the payload number from that yellow sticker you most likely won't overload the axles or vice versa.
Either way "occupants or cargo MUST NOT exceed XXXX lbs" whether that's payload, axles or gross, you can't pick/chose which one you want to go by, none should be exceeded.

[Ribtip]

This is all good info. All i was saying is i cant say his intent was to go over payload as i dont know what he is putting on the back or pulling. Just sounded like he was beefing up his truck. No harm in that.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

This is all good info. All i was saying is i cant say his intent was to go over payload as i dont know what he is putting on the back or pulling. Just sounded like he was beefing up his truck. No harm in that.

He was going to beef up a 3/4 ton to make it work like a 1 ton because the 1 ton cost $1000 more. This upgrading the fella was going to do? How much you reckon he saved and will he come out ahead and if there is an accident when he puts his top heavy truck camper (I think that is what Mr. Flip Flop was going to do) and is caught exceeding the payload, do you think the lawyers will allow him some slack for putting another leaf in or heavier coil springs, etc?



Youtube is super helpful when trying to figure out how to fix something you don't have the skills or don't want to read the directions but every topic has conflicting video info so you have to be discerning enough to know which is which and a fella with flip-flops, girly shorts and a Beetles hairdo kind of makes me suspect; he did "research" on the internet to make his points and looking at OEM marketing bilge or other internet gurus doesn't qualify one for an expert badge.

[Ribtip]

I get what your saying but still i cant say for sure he is going to be over weight for his truck And for people to start taking shots at people with 3/4 tons is a joke. If i beef up my truck and i am still under my payload is that not ok.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

I get what your saying but still i cant say for sure he is going to be over weight for his truck And for people to start taking shots at people with 3/4 tons is a joke. If i beef up my truck and i am still under my payload is that not ok.

That is great; but the youtube expert was trying to upgrade his payload while ignoring the factory payload as stated on the yellow/white placard in his door frame. There are a lot of similarities between HD trucks but a 3/4 ton is not a 1 ton. If you fall into the safe zone from a payload standpoint with your 3/4 ton or even 1/2 ton and want to use airbags, more leaf springs, heavier coils, etc, there isn't anything wrong at all. My point was, the fella bought a 3/4 ton to save money vs a 1 ton and then mentioned putting buckets of money into the truck to beef it up and you can only assume there must be a payload issue. Hey, I had a 1700 lb DRY truck camper and my payload was less than 1700 lbs and had no one around to tell me I was unsafe.

[flybouy]

Towing overloaded either over the trailer or the truck's payload or axle weights is like loading a revolver with a single bullet and playing Russian Roulette. You may pull that trigger many times and be "alright" until that one time when your not.

JMHO

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

I get what your saying but still i cant say for sure he is going to be over weight for his truck And for people to start taking shots at people with 3/4 tons is a joke. If i beef up my truck and i am still under my payload is that not ok.

Ribtip I don't think commentary from experience about these kinds of situations are potshots - just observations.

I've beefed up trucks, SUVs, Jeeps etc. all for various purposes. Even trucks for towing - and therein lies the problem. The issue is I never thought I was making my 1/2 ton into a 3/4 or 1 ton....just trying to make it tow better. Never saw a person saying their 1/2 ton was a 3/4 (well, maybe 1 and some try to do the same "beef up" thing). I've owned a 3/4 ton and they are what they are....3/4 ton; and it will tell you that right there on that blasted yellow sticker with the weights.

The video simply promotes and keeps alive the ongoing "my 3/4 ton is really a 1 ton except for the political regulations" - not so. As far as talking about those looking to use that excuse, they ARE 3/4 ton owners trying to justify carrying a larger load than they should. Seen it on this forum, other forums and in real life multiple times. And think about this; if one is "on the edge" weight wise and trying to "beef up the truck" to make it tow/handle more, remember that all those heavy springs, air bags w/compressors, heavier tires, etc. etc. just lowered your payload....again.

I personally appreciate the way you approach the conversation.

[wiredgeorge]

Heck, I beefed up my very overloaded F150 with the truck camper by putting airbags on and some LRE LT tires so they didn't bulge like they were going to pop. The thing was so top heavy on my poor little half ton that I just had a feeling something was no bueno so sold the truck camper asap. I bought a small bumper pull and an old F250 from the sale of the much newer F150. Was I stupid or ignorant? Dunno there is much difference. It actually never occurred to me to check payload or the truck's ability to haul a truck camper.

[Ribtip]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Ribtip I don't think commentary from experience about these kinds of situations are potshots - just observations.

I've beefed up trucks, SUVs, Jeeps etc. all for various purposes. Even trucks for towing - and therein lies the problem. The issue is I never thought I was making my 1/2 ton into a 3/4 or 1 ton....just trying to make it tow better. Never saw a person saying their 1/2 ton was a 3/4 (well, maybe 1 and some try to do the same "beef up" thing). I've owned a 3/4 ton and they are what they are....3/4 ton; and it will tell you that right there on that blasted yellow sticker with the weights.

The video simply promotes and keeps alive the ongoing "my 3/4 ton is really a 1 ton except for the political regulations" - not so. As far as talking about those looking to use that excuse, they ARE 3/4 ton owners trying to justify carrying a larger load than they should. Seen it on this forum, other forums and in real life multiple times. And think about this; if one is "on the edge" weight wise and trying to "beef up the truck" to make it tow/handle more, remember that all those heavy springs, air bags w/compressors, heavier tires, etc. etc. just lowered your payload....again.

I personally appreciate the way you approach the conversation.

Thank you. People come here to learn i get it. We need a sticky about payload and how to figure it out and put it to rest. I can see newbies getting lost in the sea of nonstop explaining of the same subject. We need a good sticky. Im putting brakes on the tv as we speak. I got to finish this up talk to you gent's tomorrow.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I'll have to disagree!
That yellow sticker payload weight is NOT the dry weight of that truck!
But will agree anything the dealer or the buyer adds to that truck has reduced the payload of THAT truck.
I'll also agree in the past the axle weights were the limiting number. Apparently in the past there must have been an issue, probably an accident, resulting in the need nowadays for the max payload number. Unfortunately none of the manufacturers post/advertise the real numbers people need, but are constantly advertising "able to tow a XXXXX LB trailer" which only creates another confusing useless number.
If you adhere to the payload number from that yellow sticker you most likely won't overload the axles or vice versa.
Either way "occupants or cargo MUST NOT exceed XXXX lbs" whether that's payload, axles or gross, you can't pick/chose which one you want to go by, none should be exceeded.

I never said the Payload on the Yellow Sticker was the DRY weight of the truck.

What I said was the listed payload on the "Yellow Sticker" is only valid until the vehicle hits the dealer's lot.
Now it will remain so if the dealer doesn't add any thing add any accessories to the vehicle. It is a great shopping and comparing tool when shoping new or used. If looking used you need to know what options the vehicle left the factory with.
The Payload listed on the Yellow Sticker is the difference vehicles between the vehicles GVWR and that vehicles weight as it left the factory including a 150# driver and a full tank of fuel.
We see many confuse it the same as Max tow rating, thinking that is how heavy a pin weight the vehicle can carry.
In truth it is what the vehicle can carry before it reaches GVWR, it includes Passengers, pets, firewood, tools, added accessories, and hitch.

The final carrying capacity is determined by the lesser of Axle Ratings, and GVWR, these are listed on the Vehicle Certification Label (AKA VIN sticker).

I don't know when it became a requirement to list the GVWR, and GAWRs on the VIN, I know our 79 F250 had them listed, pretty sure my 64 Econoline Van had it listed, but I stuffed a 302 V8 in it along with C4 auto and larger differential, so didn't really matter to me at the time.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

Thank you. People come here to learn i get it. We need a sticky about payload and how to figure it out and put it to rest. I can see newbies getting lost in the sea of nonstop explaining of the same subject. We need a good sticky. Im putting brakes on the tv as we speak. I got to finish this up talk to you gent's tomorrow.

It has been suggested so as to perhaps limit the never ending redundant payload/towing capability discussion but a wise site admin (hope that is correct term) told me there were too many variable to put a one size fits all sticky in place. Not sure I totally agree but the tow vehicle payload discussion comes up more than just now and again.

[JRTJH]

When it comes to writing a "sticky" on weight calculations, truck/trailer compatibility and addressing all the variables that are necessary to include, even in basic, first step calculations, if anyone wants to write it, the site team will be happy to review it and, if it meets the needs of the forum, we can get it posted....

Who wants to volunteer their expertise and time to write such a "sticky" ?????

Any takers ???

[Big1]

Get the 350 and be done with it.