Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Keystone Questions
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-18-2023, 10:58 AM   #1
Kirk's Keystone Outback.
Member
 
Kirk's Keystone Outback.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: West Coast Florida
Posts: 64
TV Charging Battery

I have a 2013 F150 and a 2020 F250, both with the factory tow package. On several occasions I noticed that when I connect the TT umbilical cord to either truck, I donít see a rise in battery voltage when the vehicle is running. I only started looking more closely after I connected a volt meter on the front of trailer.
Is it true that the tow vehicle is supposed to trickle charge the battery? If so, how can I prove itís actually charging the battery? After performing a quick test today, I saw no rise in battery voltage with truck running.
Usually the trailer is connected to shore power while parked at home and reads 13.8, and holds between 12.8 and 13 vdc when unplugged.
Thanks in advance for any clarification.
__________________
2018 Outback 299URL
2020 F250 FX4 6.2L 4.30 AR
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Kirk's Keystone Outback. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 11:08 AM   #2
NH_Bulldog
Senior Member
 
NH_Bulldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Henniker
Posts: 1,429
On my 2015 F150 I recall having to add a relay under the hood to get the charge function to work. On my 2022 F250 it just works with no alteration needed. I do know the truck has to be running, but I can’t say whether it needs to be in gear or not. What I can tell you is that after my last boondocking 2 night stay, the batteries were fully charged by the time we got to our next site after a day of driving.
__________________
Rob & Amy
2019 Passport 240BH SL
2022 Ford F250 7.3L Godzilla Crew Cab 4x4
NH_Bulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 11:13 AM   #3
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 18,476
Most Fords that I know of require a relay in the under hood fuse/relay center to activate the charge line. On my '94 the ignition has to be in the run position also, meaning the engine should be running.

Check your owners manuals for the right relay and which slot it goes in.
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 11:19 AM   #4
Kirk's Keystone Outback.
Member
 
Kirk's Keystone Outback.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: West Coast Florida
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog View Post
On my 2015 F150 I recall having to add a relay under the hood to get the charge function to work. On my 2022 F250 it just works with no alteration needed. I do know the truck has to be running, but I can’t say whether it needs to be in gear or not. What I can tell you is that after my last boondocking 2 night stay, the batteries were fully charged by the time we got to our next site after a day of driving.
I suppose that would be a good way to test it. I have a trip planned in April. I can try slightly discharging them and see if it recovers, but I’m only driving an hour and a half, but should still show something. My experiment today was with the F150, so I’ll pay a little more attention when I tow with the F250. Thanks for that information.
__________________
2018 Outback 299URL
2020 F250 FX4 6.2L 4.30 AR
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Kirk's Keystone Outback. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 11:38 AM   #5
Kirk's Keystone Outback.
Member
 
Kirk's Keystone Outback.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: West Coast Florida
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Most Fords that I know of require a relay in the under hood fuse/relay center to activate the charge line. On my '94 the ignition has to be in the run position also, meaning the engine should be running.

Check your owners manuals for the right relay and which slot it goes in.
I knew I would get the right answers here.
My owners manual for 2013 F150 does not show a relay installed, so that answers that question. New question: Relay Part Number?
In my 2020 F250 manual, it does show a 30 amp fuse for Trailer Tow Battery Charge. So that’s good news. I’ll verify it’s actually working when able to swap trucks around.

Thanks for the quick responses, Chuck and Rob.
__________________
2018 Outback 299URL
2020 F250 FX4 6.2L 4.30 AR
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Kirk's Keystone Outback. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 11:53 AM   #6
Kirk's Keystone Outback.
Member
 
Kirk's Keystone Outback.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: West Coast Florida
Posts: 64
On another note relating to the charging system that I’ve been curious about:
Can the TV be connected and running at the same time when shore power is on and proving power without damaging the converter or alternator? My question is kinda related to a house generator providing power the same time the power lines are providing power, which is never good.
Is there a priority for power, shore over truck?
__________________
2018 Outback 299URL
2020 F250 FX4 6.2L 4.30 AR
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Kirk's Keystone Outback. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 12:34 PM   #7
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 25,220
On F150's around 2010-2015 (maybe even today's models), Ford included a plastic bag in the glove compartment with a fuse and a relay to "enable trailer battery charging capability"... Some dealers installed the parts and threw the bag away, some left the bag in the glove box and left it up to the owner to install them, some took the bag and put it in the parts department with intent to sell it to the owner if they wanted the parts... So, no idea what the status of your parts might be.

That said, if the fuse and relay are not installed, your truck will not charge a trailer battery.

Here's what to look for: Under the hood is a "high voltage power distribution box"... Open that box and check for a relay in space #9 and a fuse in space #21 (not sure on your truck if it's space 21A or 21B).

Part numbers for the 2013 F150:
Relay: 8L8T-14B192-AA
Fuse: 6E5T-14A094-BA And these may have changed for different year trucks. The fuse is a 30 amp and the relay is available at AutoZone and NAPA as well as any Ford dealer.

If those are present and working, with the truck running, you should have 12 volt power to the 7 pin umbilical connector on the truck. (measure for 12 VDC between pins 1 and 4) Here is a diagram of the trailer end and the truck end of the 7 pin umbilical. Some trucks have a "interlock" to prevent trailer power with the truck in park. So you may have to put your truck in gear with the engine running to get power to the umbilical connector.

The wire to the umbilical Pins 1 and 4 are 16 Ga, so you won't get a lot of amperage to the battery. If the battery is "nearly dead" then after towing an hour or so, you're still going to have a "uncharged trailer battery"... It isn't going to be a "high capacity charging system" but better described as a "efficient trickle charger"... All day towing (8-10 hours) may show a significant charge increase, but you'll hardly notice a measurable change after a 1-2 hour tow.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7-way WIRING DIAGRAM.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	43288  
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 12:55 PM   #8
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 25,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk's Keystone Outback. View Post
On another note relating to the charging system that Iíve been curious about:
Can the TV be connected and running at the same time when shore power is on and proving power without damaging the converter or alternator? My question is kinda related to a house generator providing power the same time the power lines are providing power, which is never good.
Is there a priority for power, shore over truck?
A running truck connected to the trailer AND shore power providing a charge voltage via the converter/charger is not something that I'd do on a regular basis.

That said, it's also not something that would cause me to run as far as possible, dive in a ditch and cover my head to wait for the explosion....

It's not a "immediate damage will result" situation, and likely won't damage anything, but just like it's better to turn off water to a garden hose to stop the flow rather than fold the hose over on itself to stop the flow, doing it the "proper way" will keep your garden hose "round and not leaking at the fold" for a lot longer, and IMO, using or connecting one charging source at a time just seems like a better way to protect equipment...

As a sidenote, if the WFCO converter/charger "senses a charging voltage from the truck charging system" (usually 13.4 - 13.6 VDC, the converter/charger will reduce/stop the charging process and will revert to the "float mode" which is 13.2 VDC, so with the truck connected, your converter/charger will "essentially shut itself down"....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 01:25 PM   #9
markcee
Senior Member
 
markcee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 844
FYI...don't know when you are trying to measure voltage, but I believe I've also read on the f150forum.com that the brake pedal must be pushed before voltage is sent/detectable from Ford's integrated trailer brake controller (ITBC).
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
markcee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2023, 01:50 PM   #10
Kirk's Keystone Outback.
Member
 
Kirk's Keystone Outback.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: West Coast Florida
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
A running truck connected to the trailer AND shore power providing a charge voltage via the converter/charger is not something that I'd do on a regular basis.

That said, it's also not something that would cause me to run as far as possible, dive in a ditch and cover my head to wait for the explosion....

It's not a "immediate damage will result" situation, and likely won't damage anything, but just like it's better to turn off water to a garden hose to stop the flow rather than fold the hose over on itself to stop the flow, doing it the "proper way" will keep your garden hose "round and not leaking at the fold" for a lot longer, and IMO, using or connecting one charging source at a time just seems like a better way to protect equipment...

As a sidenote, if the WFCO converter/charger "senses a charging voltage from the truck charging system" (usually 13.4 - 13.6 VDC, the converter/charger will reduce/stop the charging process and will revert to the "float mode" which is 13.2 VDC, so with the truck connected, your converter/charger will "essentially shut itself down"....
Thank you John for addressing both questions.
As soon as I read about the possibility of there being fuses and relays in the glove compartment, I couldn’t run to the truck fast enough to look, and guess what, there was a relay and a 30 amp fuse. I verified positions with the manual and you were 100% correct on position 9 and 21. Guess what, all systems are a go. Charging at 13 volts!!!

The contributors to this forum are nothing short of amazing.
Thanks to all who chimed in for a swift resolution.
__________________
2018 Outback 299URL
2020 F250 FX4 6.2L 4.30 AR
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Kirk's Keystone Outback. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:02 AM   #11
curtiscapk
Senior Member
 
curtiscapk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Overland Park
Posts: 209
Wow this is why I love forums. We've had the new camper out twice. once to the local lake 20 miles from home. 2nd one was to our daughters 200 miles from home. on the second trip I noticed the camper battery was at half when we arrived at campsite. After plugging into shore power it charged back up. I wasn't thinking of the new DC fridge running on battery the whole trip there.

The old camper pulled nothing off battery during trips. My first f150 had some wires and fuses in a bag in the glovebox when I bought it which I put in my toolbox. (wasn't towing anything then) The bag sat there for 2.5 years until I had a blowout @ 70 MPH that sent me into the crossover cables and totaled the truck.

When I got the new (current) truck it had a relay and fuse in a bag. Well I put that in the other bag in my toolbox.
I assumed with the factory tow package everything would be correct on the 2013 f150. I was wrong! After reading this post I went out to the fuse box and while the fuse was there the relay wasn't!

Go to the bag and bingo! Instructions and everything else! 2 fuses 2 relays and wiring for a controller!

Thanks guys! We're going to Surfside Beach TX in 5 weeks, The battery would've been smoked running the fridge without a charge from TV. Along with the food we're taking!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20230320_180611 (Medium).jpg
Views:	13
Size:	161.5 KB
ID:	43320   Click image for larger version

Name:	20230320_180625 (Medium).jpg
Views:	12
Size:	185.6 KB
ID:	43321   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181226_153706.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	248.8 KB
ID:	43322   Click image for larger version

Name:	20181226_153732.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	282.6 KB
ID:	43323  
__________________
Craig and Paula
(Keith)
2022 Primetime Tracer 24DBS
2013 F150 5.0 2WD
Equalizer 4 WDH
Overland Park, KS
curtiscapk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM   #12
Kirk's Keystone Outback.
Member
 
Kirk's Keystone Outback.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: West Coast Florida
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtiscapk View Post
Wow this is why I love forums. We've had the new camper out twice. once to the local lake 20 miles from home. 2nd one was to our daughters 200 miles from home. on the second trip I noticed the camper battery was at half when we arrived at campsite. After plugging into shore power it charged back up. I wasn't thinking of the new DC fridge running on battery the whole trip there.

The old camper pulled nothing off battery during trips. My first f150 had some wires and fuses in a bag in the glovebox when I bought it which I put in my toolbox. (wasn't towing anything then) The bag sat there for 2.5 years until I had a blowout @ 70 MPH that sent me into the crossover cables and totaled the truck.

When I got the new (current) truck it had a relay and fuse in a bag. Well I put that in the other bag in my toolbox.
I assumed with the factory tow package everything would be correct on the 2013 f150. I was wrong! After reading this post I went out to the fuse box and while the fuse was there the relay wasn't!

Go to the bag and bingo! Instructions and everything else! 2 fuses 2 relays and wiring for a controller!

Thanks guys! We're going to Surfside Beach TX in 5 weeks, The battery would've been smoked running the fridge without a charge from TV. Along with the food we're taking!
Being the original poster, I'm happy to know that this was also helpful to somebody else. Thanks for sharing your results.
__________________
2018 Outback 299URL
2020 F250 FX4 6.2L 4.30 AR
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Kirk's Keystone Outback. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RVģ is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.