Winterizing - an observation about the blow out method

[dutchmensport]

I am currently staying at the Audubon State Historic Site in St. Francisville, Louisiana until January 31 as a "camp host", but my primary duty is a tour guide for the Oakley Plantation House.

Meanwhile, I've done a number of other tasks around the historic plantation to assist and (primarily) to give me something to do and keep occupied.

Well, there are only 2 RV sites on the site, and both are designated for "camp host" positions (a tour guide and a trails maintenance position .... no actual campground).

Now the State of Louisiana has a number of travel trailers that get moved around for State employees to stay in when they move around from State Park to State Park, or historic site to site.

Currently in this park one such camper, it's a Keystone Hideout, and based on past performance, no one "really" knows how to properly maintain these campers .... especially the idea of "winterizing."

Enter ... "me!"

I talked to the property manager and suggest the camper get winterized, he agreed, and I did I did just that. But, I did not use the RV antifreeze method, I used the blow - (air compressor method), since I had all the equipment in my own camper to do that, and I didn't want to go through the expense of purchasing RV antifreeze, or figure out how to "pump the pink" for a pump I could not reach. Yes, its located in a horrible position. Well, "blowing" is a good way to winterize and considering the Winters in Louisiana are not very severe, I figured the blow method would be more than acceptable.

I set my air compressor at 45 psi, attached my air compressor hose, pressurized the lines and then proceeded to blow the lines one at a time (and yes, I did drain the water heater, flushed it, and put it in by-pass).

One thing I noticed about the blowing (and I've blown in the past on my own camper) is the fact that once it APPEARED to stop blowing out the water droplets, there was still water vapor being expelled from the faucets. It was a fine mist. I could not see it, but but I put my hand under the faucet, the water vapor quickly made my hand wet.

Leaving one faucet open all the way, I increased the air compressor to 100 psi and really let the air flow. Again, I made sure one faucet was always open and then opened the second faucet and then closed the first. What I found even more amazing was at 100 PSI (probably still less than 50 in the actual lines since the line was open), water droplets were still being spit out of the faucets. I let the compressor run for about 15 minutes, going from faucet to faucet and shower, and toilet, and even after 15 minutes at such a force of air, there was STILL water vapor coming out of spigots.

I finally had to call it quits, turned off the compressor, disconnected and decided to leave all the faucets open (hot and cold).

Bottom line of my story ... no matter how hard one blows their lines, there's still water vapor and droplets on water in the lines. The only SURE way to remove all the water is by using the RV pink stuff.

I'm sure this camper will be protected against freezing. Hopefully, what little bit of residual water droplets are left in the lines will have adequate room to expand when (if) it freezes.

Personally, on my own camper, I pump the pink and then blow out the pink. I never thought about putting my hand under the faucets when I "thought" it was blowing out nothing but air! I'm not winterizing my own, because I'm using it. But when returning back to Indiana on February 1, I'll have to winterize. I have my own pink stuff ready!

Just an observation. You winterize what works best for you! Happy camping.

[sourdough]

As a note on winterization, the object is to remove the water so it does not freeze, expand and break something. Once all lines are drained and the remaining residual water is blown out with a compressor properly there isn't enough water left to freeze and expand to fill a line much less bust it. There will be dips in the lines etc. where any small amount of water might collect but once it starts freezing and expanding it will just move up the water line. A key here is to make sure the water can expand by leaving the faucets cracked open. Also make sure the toilet, shower etc. are all blown out as well. Water left in a faucet, particularly a pull out kitchen sprayer/hose, will surely pop the handle off - btdt. The pink stuff is good and really needed "just to be sure" in some places but in others the air works fine (been doing it for many years in TX). To each their own and the pink stuff (which is in mine at the moment) is just more peace of mind.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

I am currently staying at the Audubon State Historic Site in St. Francisville, Louisiana until January 31 as a "camp host", but my primary duty is a tour guide for the Oakley Plantation House.

Meanwhile, I've done a number of other tasks around the historic plantation to assist and (primarily) to give me something to do and keep occupied.

Well, there are only 2 RV sites on the site, and both are designated for "camp host" positions (a tour guide and a trails maintenance position .... no actual campground).

Now the State of Louisiana has a number of travel trailers that get moved around for State employees to stay in when they move around from State Park to State Park, or historic site to site.

Currently in this park one such camper, it's a Keystone Hideout, and based on past performance, no one "really" knows how to properly maintain these campers .... especially the idea of "winterizing."

Enter ... "me!"

I talked to the property manager and suggest the camper get winterized, he agreed, and I did I did just that. But, I did not use the RV antifreeze method, I used the blow - (air compressor method), since I had all the equipment in my own camper to do that, and I didn't want to go through the expense of purchasing RV antifreeze, or figure out how to "pump the pink" for a pump I could not reach. Yes, its located in a horrible position. Well, "blowing" is a good way to winterize and considering the Winters in Louisiana are not very severe, I figured the blow method would be more than acceptable.

I set my air compressor at 45 psi, attached my air compressor hose, pressurized the lines and then proceeded to blow the lines one at a time (and yes, I did drain the water heater, flushed it, and put it in by-pass).

One thing I noticed about the blowing (and I've blown in the past on my own camper) is the fact that once it APPEARED to stop blowing out the water droplets, there was still water vapor being expelled from the faucets. It was a fine mist. I could not see it, but but I put my hand under the faucet, the water vapor quickly made my hand wet.

Leaving one faucet open all the way, I increased the air compressor to 100 psi and really let the air flow. Again, I made sure one faucet was always open and then opened the second faucet and then closed the first. What I found even more amazing was at 100 PSI (probably still less than 50 in the actual lines since the line was open), water droplets were still being spit out of the faucets. I let the compressor run for about 15 minutes, going from faucet to faucet and shower, and toilet, and even after 15 minutes at such a force of air, there was STILL water vapor coming out of spigots.

I finally had to call it quits, turned off the compressor, disconnected and decided to leave all the faucets open (hot and cold).

Bottom line of my story ... no matter how hard one blows their lines, there's still water vapor and droplets on water in the lines. The only SURE way to remove all the water is by using the RV pink stuff.

I'm sure this camper will be protected against freezing. Hopefully, what little bit of residual water droplets are left in the lines will have adequate room to expand when (if) it freezes.

Personally, on my own camper, I pump the pink and then blow out the pink. I never thought about putting my hand under the faucets when I "thought" it was blowing out nothing but air! I'm not winterizing my own, because I'm using it. But when returning back to Indiana on February 1, I'll have to winterize. I have my own pink stuff ready!

Just an observation. You winterize what works best for you! Happy camping.

Your air compressor tank also can also be the source of water vapor especially if used in high humidity areas…humid air drawn in can condense as water droplets inside the tank and build up over time or just come out the compressed side as vapor…that’s why the inside of compressor tanks can rust out and rupture from within…also why they sell inline air dryer/water separator's…using your compressor near the swamps of Louisiana may produce more vapor then if you were in the mountains in Utah

[workinonit]

I noticed the same thing on mine when I blew it down a week or so ago. What I did was blow it down several days in a row so that water had time to collect overnight. That seemed to work pretty well. I'll let you know when this cold weather is over.

I was actually thinking about putting my HVAC vacuum pump on the system and get that little bit of water out. What are the thoughts about doing that? It won't pull a very deep vacuum but it should vaporize and remove the better part of the remaining moisture.

I refuse to put that antifreeze in my system.

[dutchmensport]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Your air compressor tank also can also be the source of water vapor especially if used in high humidity areas…humid air drawn in can condense as water droplets inside the tank and build up over time or just come out the compressed side as vapor…that’s why the inside of compressor tanks can rust out and rupture from within…also why they sell inline air dryer/water separator's…using your compressor near the swamps of Louisiana may produce more vapor then if you were in the mountains in Utah

This is a good observation I've not thought about. When I've winterized my own camper with my air compressor, I've always been in Indiana, and usually in the late Fall or early Winter when the humidity is low.

Here is Louisiana, although the temperatures are pleasant, the humidity has been very, very high for weeks and weeks and weeks now. I have a Craftsman pancake type compressor I carry in the camper all the time. That is what I used on the other camper. It does draw water, as I always pop the drain on the bottom and it always spits water vapor and droplets when I discharge the pressure. So, it's possible some of the water vapor came from there.

Yes, the faucets were left open on this unit. I left a long note attached to the kitchen sink on everything that "should" be done before anyone attempts to use the camper again. (It needs a new anode rod, the current anode rod is just finger tightened, add water to the water heater before turning it on, the water heater is not in by-pass - it's ready to go, faucets are open at the moment, and check the P-traps for leaks as I removed the P-traps and dumped the water to winterize them).

More than likely, it will be moved off this property and taken somewhere else before it gets used again. Everyone agrees, the decisions the state of Louisiana makes for using, care and maintenance, and moving these campers around, sometimes, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Thanks for your responses. I did the best I could to help out. I absolutely could not see that camper being neglected. I felt I had to do something to protect it. No one else thought about it until I addressed the need.

In the next couple days, it's suppose to get below freezing temps at night, and actually, right now, it's 31 degrees (F). At home in Indiana, right now, it's 13 degrees. I'm glad I'm here, and not THERE right now!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by workinonit

I noticed the same thing on mine when I blew it down a week or so ago. What I did was blow it down several days in a row so that water had time to collect overnight. That seemed to work pretty well. I'll let you know when this cold weather is over.

I was actually thinking about putting my HVAC vacuum pump on the system and get that little bit of water out. What are the thoughts about doing that? It won't pull a very deep vacuum but it should vaporize and remove the better part of the remaining moisture.

I refuse to put that antifreeze in my system.

If you do leave the fresh water tank fill cap off….but then won’t be as effective because it won’t pull a deep vacuum…The vacuum pump may collapse your fresh water tank possibly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOmu_kh9vhs

[workinonit]

Good point but my tank has never had any water in it so I just left it valved out when I blew everything down. My plan was to just leave it valved out. My tank has an overflow that would be open anyway.

[jasin1]

Wondering if you could finish off blowing the air lines out with pumping some alcohol thru the lines with the winterization pump …may help evaporate any moisture left inside the lines although I can’t think of any issue with leftover moisture except if you have some water left in the lines and you leave all the faucets open I’m a closed up camper you could possibly get some mold but probably unlikely

[Richeyb]

I’m a double duty guy when winterizing my Montana HC. I will blow out the line and drain the fresh water and hot water heater and then fill the line with RV antifreeze. When comparing the cost of my RV and a couple bottles of Rv antifreeze it’s simple math. Just my thoughts from living in cold winters of Idaho. I have lived in Louisiana also and know how cold it gets with those cold winter northerners from Canada.

[dpherod]

Just a note about winterizing. 2018 Keystone Cougar 27'.

Several years ago my wife and I camped at Canyonlands SP in Utah over Christmas. I made a mistake and thought both propane tanks were full, but tank #2 was empty. We were there for two days and all systems were Go. Tank #1 ran out because it was so cold the heater was running almost constantly (no hookups). When I realized my mistake with tank #2 - that meant I had to make the almost 2 hour round trip drive to Moab to refill.

Well, during that 2 hours, it was so cold, the water supply lines froze in the underbelly. In spite of getting the heat going again once I returned, it was too late. The temps were in single digits at night and mid-20's during the day.

There was nothing I could do to thaw the lines, so we decided to leave and head to Grand Junction to hopefully find warmer temps and electric hookup. We did get to electricity, but the temps there were only slightly warmer. We finally had to give up and head back home. Once we got there, it was still a deep freeze.

I had to do what every owner dreads: specifically I had to park it at our storage unit with everything frozen solid. I did drain the water heater before it froze, but every line was solid.

When the weather finally warmed, we took it home so I could spend a couple of days re-running all the PEX lines because I was sure they'd all have been ruined.

Very long story short - after all that, the only thing that was broken was the toilet flush valve. I was stunned.

It was a terrible mistake and I got incredibly lucky. The PEX tubing must have a lot more forgiveness than copper or PVC.

[azsailer]

Anyone else use a wet-dry vacuum to get water out of the lines? After blowing out the lines I reverse the process using a wet-dry vacuum attached to the low point drain to remove water. I attach it to one of the drain lines and then open the faucet farthest from the drain for a few minutes and then close that faucet and open the next one closer and so on until I get to the last one ( don’t forget the toilet). I do the hot and cold lines separately. I usually get between one and two cups of water out! If you have ever opened up the belly or interior walls of your trailer you might be surprised to find that there are plastic elbows and connections on your Pex lines. Some of these might be in a low spot where that extra water settles, and if it does freeze they can break. I don’t use this method on the sewer clean out system though for obvious reasons 🦨.

[JRTJH]

Remember: EVERY trailer plumbing system will be different from other systems, even in the same model trailer. PEX is flexible, "low points" will be in different locations as well. Some low points will hold water further away from the low point drains, some will drain completely, other trailers of the same model will hold water in a "unintended low point" along the drain system.

Some of those "wet spots" in the low point drain line will be "in PEX only" and pose no problem if they freeze. Other "wet spots" can well be "in the area of a cheap plastic PEX fitting" and if that spot freezes, can crack the PEX fitting, causing a significant leak that "can be" in an area that requires ripping out parts of the underbelly, breaking into the insulated "under floor area" to even reach the cracked fitting.....

If you "hate plumbing repairs" as much as I do, trying to save $2.50 on a gallon of RV antifreeze to protect a $30,000 trailer ????

I just ask, if you're in an area where freezing temperatures do occur, is that a "wise decision" on how to save less money than a cup of coffee ?????

Reminds me of a "historical thread" where a member proposed sanitizing his fresh water system with a couple tablespoons of Listerine....

[Ddaddyo]

I live in the N/E corner of Indiana and we actually get Winter here. I've used the Compressed Air blow out method since 1963 on my Dad's first Camper. I've never had any Water lines freeze. The method I employ is blow out all lines, don't forget the outside Shower and Black Tank Wash Out. I then repeat this a half hour later. Leave the Faucets turned on slightly this will allow any water left to Evaporate.

[Mikelff]

I have done the blow out method for years with no issues. Yes, there is still water vapor and droplets still in the lines but the goal is to remove enough water out of the lines to prevent water freezing and splitting a pipe. As long as there is room for freezing water to expand, you are good to go. I put a gallon of the pink stuff in the black and grey tanks to prevent freezing in those tanks as you never get all the water out of those. NEVER in the fresh tank. It will take months to get rid of that pink stuff taste. I leave the drain valve open on the fresh tank which has worked well. I do put the pink stuff in all the P traps as they will hold water if you don’t. I also leave all faucets open to allow for pressure changes in the system including the shower and washer hook ups if you have them. Doing both blow out then pink stuff in the water lines is really overkill and not necessary IMO. Don’t forget to run your water pump for about 15-20 seconds to get water out of water pump. I do this after I blow out all the lines, then blow out the low drain water line a second time after I run the pump. Be sure to blow out all the cross over lines on the bypass for fresh tank and water heater. I use a check list so I don’t forget anything. It saved my bacon a couple times. Happy camping!

[CraigBinFL]

Upping the pressure from 50psi to 100psi has no effect if you're leaving a faucet open at all times. That number is the cut-off point for your compressor, not its output. The output of your compressor, typically expressed as cubic feet per minute, remains the same, regardless of your psi set point.

[Cougar1957]

The blow out method of winterization is my preferred method. Drain and bypass your hot water heater first. Set your system to city water so you bypass the main water storage tank, which you need to empty of course. Once the water tank is empty, run your water pump for about 30 seconds to empty it out. Set your compressor output to 30 psi or you could damage seals. Make sure to use an oiless compressor so you don't introduce oil mist into your water system. Use a water/oil catch can at the start of your compressor line. open your grey water tank valve. Open all your faucets and open your low point water drains when first blowing out the lines so as to keep the majority of water out of your grey tank. Then close the low point drains and blow out one last time. Add about a cup of the pink antifreeze to each drain after blowing out lines. Don't forget to open shower faucet and outdoor shower line during the process.

[Life-in-Him]

After 5 years on the road, had to do the first winterizing.
my compressor hadn't arrived yet so decided to use my Dewalt portable battery blower/compressor.
noticed that blowing as the lines clear & I could hear a sputtering noise as the water was bubbling.

Slowly the noise grew slower & less frequent. Opening & closing fawcet by fawcet it eventually ended.
In the spring as we hit the road or load up we'll see bow that worked.
without the compressor noise this my be our SOP from now on if not on the road.