RV Drivers License

[Maxzd]

In the province of British Columbia (Canada) it's required by law to have a special drivers license to tow anything over 4600kg or 10,000+lbs.

After a couple of years of managing weight in my trailer to stay under this limit I decided to finally write the test and go for a road test to get this towing endorsement.

The written test was 25 questions some RV related. That gets you a learner license to drive with a qualified instructor or someone with same designation license or better. You have one year to book a driving test which is about half hour pre-trip inspection and half hour road test. The pre trip required committing everything they believe needs to be checked to memory. A half hour of me describing every action and observation listening to the sound of my own voice was a real treat!

I passed but had a couple of misses on the Pre trip. One which I keep shaking my head - I would never think to check a ladder which is bolted to the back of an RV. Not every RV ladder is permanent, I guess that is why it is a separate check..

So my question to the folks out there. How many of you hold a special license to drive or tow an RV? Does your area have any restrictions or conditions?

[Festus2]

Maxzd -
While an endorsement is required by law, it is rarely if ever, enforced. I've spoken with dozens of BC RVers who exceed the 10000 lb restriction but do not have an endorsement. Many do not even know that such a requirement exists - some do but can't be bothered to take the test.

Until such time as this law is enforced, it is essentially meaningless - until such time as you are involved in an accident at which time you better have deep pockets and a good lawyer to get you out of deep ka-ka.

Like BC, I think most states and provinces have some sort of restrictions and the 10000 lb limit seems to be a common figure.

[Maxzd]

Originally Posted by Festus2

Maxzd -
While an endorsement is required by law, it is rarely if ever, enforced. I've spoken with dozens of BC RVers who exceed the 10000 lb restriction but do not have an endorsement. Many do not even know that such a requirement exists - some do but can't be bothered to take the test.

Until such time as this law is enforced, it is essentially meaningless - until such time as you are involved in an accident at which time you better have deep pockets and a good lawyer to get you out of deep ka-ka.

Like BC, I think most states and provinces have some sort of restrictions and the 10000 lb limit seems to be a common figure.

You are correct that many RVers do not know the requirement exists. Definitely one of the reasons I was interested in hearing from others.

Your point about insurance is arguably more concerning than any fines that an RV owner could be issued for being over the 10,000lbs. It is left up to the individual to know the actual weight of the RV at time of towing and requirements for adequate licensing. No dealer will talk you out of buying a large trailer because a license is required. No insurance agent mentions license requirement even though the weight of the trailer is required on insurance papers. Surprising as insurance and licensing are basically the same outfit in BC.

Here is a key excerpt from the insurance corp of BC (icbc) booklet titled: "Towing a Recreational Trailer - What Every Driver Towing a Recreational Trailer Should Know".

Warning: "It is your responsibility to ensure you have the appropriate driver's licence and driving skills for the trailer you are towing. Without the proper licence, you may be in breach of your insurance policy in the event of a crash. Your insurance claim may be denied including claims for your own injuries, or damage that you might cause to your vehicle or to other people or property. You may then be responsible for paying these costs".

Knowing my trailer with cargo can easily exceed 10,000lbs, I feel better not having to second guess what i want to bring along now.

[Avofarmer66]

I want to thank all who have responded to and commented on the Calif. Recreational Veh and Trailer licensing.

The Calif state does require an endorsement on your Class C license if your 5er is under 15000 lb. and my Farmers Insurance agent said I could be at risk of NO Accident Coverage if the insurer determins I'm not properly licensed.
Over 15000 lb. requires a Non-commerical class A license written and driving test.

Took the test today, there was some comfusion at the DMV in Escondido but I had called Sacremento DMV to claify the testing requirements and after 3 Escondido clerks had their discussion, I took the (20 question test #656) Not difficult...

Read the 44 page book #DL648 found on the web @ dmv.ca.gov.

O!!! stopped at Camping World on the way home to pick up some black streak remover and took some time to talk to a Montana saleperson. They know nothing about licenseing and do not advise their customers as to proper or required licensing.

SOOOO buy a new 5er pull out on the street get hit, found at fault... to bad so sad!!!

[crash]

In Va. there are no endorsments for rvs, but I have always kept my CDL class A lic,just incase I need to go back driving a semi.

[michael]

I have my cdl im lic for everything except school bus, doubles, and i let my haz mat go because i never haul anything to justifie keeping it.
For the folks out there that dont have any endorsements are they driveing illegaly thru thoes states that require it ?. So getting into Canada you need passport and the rv endorsment ?. Its odd that people dont find out they need it until they are in a jam. But an easy way out for the insurance co.

[hankpage]

Originally Posted by michael

I have my cdl im lic for everything except school bus, doubles, and i let my haz mat go because i never haul anything to justifie keeping it.
For the folks out there that dont have any endorsements are they driveing illegaly thru thoes states that require it ?. So getting into Canada you need passport and the rv endorsment ?. Its odd that people dont find out they need it until they are in a jam. But an easy way out for the insurance co.

To my knowledge all states have resaprosity (spell?) agreements and will recognize the licensing laws of your home state. This includes age and the scary part ... the need for liability insurance. But your vehicle must not violate any of laws of the state you are presently in. (length, width, double tow, etc.) This was one of the main reasons for the CDL to be adopted for interstate transport. As for Canada ..... that's a good question?????

[Jim W]

This is from the Rules of the Road in IL.

Requirements

You must be age 18 to apply for a Commercial Driver's License (CDL) to drive in Illinois and age 21 to drive outside Illinois. You must obtain a CDL if you operate:
• Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, providing the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
• Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
• Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
• A vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
• By law, drivers who hold a valid CDL must notify the Secretary of State's office of an address change or name change within 10 days and must obtain a corrected driver's license within 30 days.

Exemptions

Recreational Vehicle Operators — Illinois waives CDL requirements for drivers of a recreational vehicle primarily operated as family/personal conveyance for recreational purposes. This includes motor homes and travel trailers.

Class D license is the minimum required to drive in IL with a trailer.

Jim W.

[Festus2]

You do not need to show any kind of special RV licence endorsement to gain entry into Canada. The people at the border are not at all interested in what kind of licence you have if you are pulling an RV. All they want to know is if you are the registered owner of that RV, it has a current licence plate, and you have documentation to prove that the RV is registered in your name.

Each province has their own rules and regulations about licence endorsements - including those for RV's of 10000 lbs or more. .... very similar to those rules/endorsements in most of the states. Just because you need one in CA doesn't mean you have to have the same thing for coming into Canada.

A passport? For sure.

[Mike L123]

This thread caused me to check the rules and regs for our home province, Alberta. Interestingly enough, and to my relief Alberta does not attach any specific weight requirements or endorsements to driving a truck and RV trailer combination for Alberta registered/licensed vehicles. The only endorsements that I could find related to RV's such as motor homes and, I assume, RV trailers, was whether or not they had air brakes which would require air brake endorsement.

This being said, I think that I will still check in with our insurance company agent just to make sure that they don't have any differing thoughts on the matter.

Cheers!

Mike

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by Jim W

This is from the Rules of the Road in IL.

Requirements

You must be age 18 to apply for a Commercial Driver's License (CDL) to drive in Illinois and age 21 to drive outside Illinois. You must obtain a CDL if you operate:
• Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, providing the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
• Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
• Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
• A vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
• By law, drivers who hold a valid CDL must notify the Secretary of State's office of an address change or name change within 10 days and must obtain a corrected driver's license within 30 days.

Exemptions

Recreational Vehicle Operators — Illinois waives CDL requirements for drivers of a recreational vehicle primarily operated as family/personal conveyance for recreational purposes. This includes motor homes and travel trailers.

Class D license is the minimum required to drive in IL with a trailer.

Jim W.

While your post is several months old, this isn't as simple as it seems for Illinois and many other state requirement for drivers. Another exemption for CDL licenses is Firefighter and Firetrucks, however as a member of a fire department I had to get my Class B license. I don't have and wasn't required to get a CDL license, but had to have the Class B license. While RVs have the same exception as Firetrucks and are exempt from CDL, if your Truck and fifthwheel combined weight is greater than 26,000 pounds (thats a very large combination as even a 350/3500 diesel dually is about 8000 pounds) and you tow a fifthwheel trailer greater than 10,001 pounds you need to have a class A license - probably not likely that heavy however. Or drive a motorhome greater than 26,000 pounds you need a Class B license. Of course, if you drive a 30,000 pound Motorhome, and a heavy trailer greater than 10,001 pounds you need a Class A.

A lot of people confuse proper weight classification on their license with CDL.

[jtyphoid]

8000 lbs might be the curb weight of a 350/3500 dually, but the laws are talking about GVWR. My F350 SRW is rated at 11,000 lb, so a dually will certainly be more than that.

[dankent]

Looked at ontario's and their law is similar ... at least it was until July 1st 2011 where they have made an allowance for RV's:

•The towing vehicle is a pick-up truck equipped with the manufacturer’s original box, with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) not exceeding 6,000 kg and equipped with no more than two axles and not being used for commercial purposes;
•Combined weight of pick-up truck and RV does not exceed 11,000 kg total gross weight;
•RV hitched to pick-up truck by means of a fifth wheel hitch assembly;
•Only one towed vehicle in combination;
•Pick-up truck and RV not equipped with air-brakes;
•RV (towed RV) Transport Canada compliant and manufactured to CSA Z-240 or Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (of America) standards;
•Floor space of RV is primarily living accommodations;
•Operated by holder of full class G driver licence – holders of a graduated licence in the class G1 or G2 not eligible;
•Compliant with all other Highway Traffic Act weights and dimensions requirements; and,
•No other type of towed vehicle is eligible for this proposal.

Effective July 1, 2011, Ontario now allows operators of recreational vehicles (RV) to tow RV’s on a full Class G driver’s licence if the trailer weight exceeds 4,600 kg. Previously, operators of towed RVs required a Class A licence to operate their vehicles and trailers when the trailer weight exceeded 4,600 kg. This change will promote tourism and the overall RV experience in Ontario, as well as providing new opportunities for manufacturers.

phew .... i hope hehe

[LittleJoe]

In Ontario , once the GVWR rating of truck and trailer combined exceed 24,500lbs then a class A (no Z endorcement ) is required for an" RV". . (note this is not actual weight but stickered weight).
If it is a non "RV" then a class A lic is required to tow ANY trailer that has GVWR rating over 10000lbs. Also any trailer towed behind a truck with a GVWR rating over 10000lbs must have a safety check sticker.

You will rarely ever get pulled to check this but if they stop you for another reason, and get to snooping around, it can get costly.

[lorax614]

Just checked with my lawyer BIL about New Jersey. It looks like no cdl or endorsments required unless the RV is commercially registered or has air breaks.

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

Taken directly from the back side of my New Mexico driver's license;

"CLASS: D-1 veh less than 26,001 lb. GVWR. May not tow> lbs. than veh
except w/class 4 equalizer hitch or 5th wheel"

Reckon I'm good to go ...

hankaye

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by jtyphoid

8000 lbs might be the curb weight of a 350/3500 dually, but the laws are talking about GVWR. My F350 SRW is rated at 11,000 lb, so a dually will certainly be more than that.

That was what I was saying - the base weight of the truck - 8000 lbs, the weight of your truck and RV fully loaded probably won't be over the 26,000 pound GVWR. I'm not sure what the heaviest Keystone 5ver is and it's gross capacity, but it looks right at 16,000 pounds, so you could load up your truck with about 1900 pounds of people and gear and still be less than 26,000. Looking at the Dodge Ram - that's what I have, even for the dually's there are only a few that even have a GCWR of more than 26,000 pounds, with most below 21,000 pounds.

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/201...ammlup3500.pdf

Not sure about the Fords or GM models, but I would have to imagine their similar.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

That was what I was saying - the base weight of the truck - 8000 lbs, the weight of your truck and RV fully loaded probably won't be over the 26,000 pound GVWR. I'm not sure what the heaviest Keystone 5ver is and it's gross capacity, but it looks right at 16,000 pounds, so you could load up your truck with about 1900 pounds of people and gear and still be less than 26,000. Looking at the Dodge Ram - that's what I have, even for the dually's there are only a few that even have a GCWR of more than 26,000 pounds, with most below 21,000 pounds.

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/201...ammlup3500.pdf

Not sure about the Fords or GM models, but I would have to imagine their similar.

Doesn't matter what it's loaded to - actual weight is irrelevant. GVWR is its "weight".

[Javi]

Originally Posted by SAD

Doesn't matter what it's loaded to - actual weight is irrelevant. GVWR is its "weight".

This... and in Texas the 26K don't matter what the truck is... if the trailer is over 10K you need a class A.

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by SAD

Doesn't matter what it's loaded to - actual weight is irrelevant. GVWR is its "weight".

The statement is the Illinois Driver classification book says:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

So, the law very clearly says for a Class B license "not in excess of 10,000 pounds" for the trailer, not GVWR. But it would probably be a big exception for the state to weigh an RV, but in an accident I'm sure your insurance company might question your classification, as I've seen someone say before.

You highlight the odd part of the Illinois( and probably other states because they follow the national guidelines) license classification for fifthwheel owners: Under 26,000 GVWR has no mention of trailer(Class C), Over 26,000 pounds GVWR(Class B) has the above mentioned restriction of 10,000 pound trailer weight. So, if you go buy the big heavy duty 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 30,000, for your ALPINE or Montana, you need to get a Class A license. Seems the permutations are endless, but the good part, is that all you have to do for a RV driver, license upgrade is take a written test and driving test with the vehicle/trailer combo. Nothing serious like the CDL requirements.