Newbie TV advice needed with proposed trailer

[Pomkai]

Ever hear of the Golden Rule?

[f6bits]

Dry weight of a trailer is a lie. It’s probably a couple hundred pounds heavier. Add to that the minimum 500 lbs of whatever stuff you load in the trailer and you’re already over your Landcruiser’s tow capacity. Rule of thumb is that your ready-to-travel trailer is 1,000 lbs over dry weight.

You’re not missing anything. You already know the trailer is above your vehicle’s maximum trailer rating.

But to move on to other numbers, SUVs typically don’t have much cargo capacity. What’s the GVWR and Cargo Capacity of the Landcruiser? It wouldn’t surprise me if you exceeded its cargo capacity and/or rear axle rating when fully loaded for a trip. My lightweight family maxed out my Grand Cherokee with my current trailer and towing it was not an enjoyable experience in windy or hilly areas.

Wheelbase is another issue. With my 110 inch wheelbase GC, my 29’ trailer was just a little too long, even with a good weight distribution/sway control hitch. The 250BH is a foot shorter, but your 112” wheelbase will struggle with sway, even with the Blue Ox.

[Pomkai]

Golden Rule

[f6bits]

They don’t ship a trailer with a battery (50 lbs), filled propane (40 lbs), or water.

Here’s another thread with the same setup where they told the OP that it wasn’t a good idea. Oh, wait, that’s you.

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/26203115.cfm

But since I try to be helpful, there are some dealerships that actually weigh their trailers and sticker them with their real world weight. Yes, they do this because the manufacturer’s “dry weight” isn’t accurate. Google around or call your dealer and ask for the weight as it sits on the lot.

If you do buy the trailer, be prepared for a shock when you hit the scales. Your first thought will be “what the hell did I load that made it weigh this much?” I sure don’t remember carrying 800 lbs of stuff into mine.

[f6bits]

So, looking back at the rv.net thread, someone calculated your Landcruiser’s GVWR, but I’d still like to find out what your door sticker says, as well as Cargo Capacity.

*If* their calculation is correct, your cargo capacity is 1500 lbs, which is pretty hefty. My GC was 1100 lbs and that gets eaten up pretty fast. If your trailer is 5000 lbs, the tongue weight should be about 650, leaving you with 850 free for passengers and stuff in the Landcruiser, and that’ll probably be in the neighborhood of 600 lbs, depending on what your family weighs. This leaves 250 which isn’t too bad. However, as was the case with my Jeep, rear axle was nearly maxed out.

Bottom line is that it sucks to be maxed out when towing. Even if *you* are careful, not everybody else on the road is and a maxed out load makes for a lousy emergency situation.

[SteveC7010]

Originally Posted by Pomkai

According to the Keystone website the shipping weight is 4,370 for an 09 model. And from what others have said this includes the options etc. So, that should be the weight with water of course. We will not be traveling with water. If we add the 500 pounds as you say, then that is 4,870lbs. And according to my math about we had 930 lbs remaining when subtracting for occupants, luggage etc from the GCVWR. How then am I already over the towing capacity then?

The dry weight may not include the air conditioner either.

As for traveling with no water in the tank, sooner or later, you will have to travel with liquid in one or more of the tanks, be it fresh, gray, or black. It is inevitable. Everybody promises that just to get someone on these forums to tell them that their combo is OK. It's a false premise in my book.

My firm recommendation to anyone is to ignore the dry weight of the trailer and use the GVWR of the trailer for all considerations. I don't find the 250BH on Keystone's website for the 2013 lineup, but other trailers with similar dry weights all have GVWR's that are well above 6,000#.

EDIT: I just skimmed over the rv.net thread. I see that a bunch of folks have already told you the same thing.

You are over max. Consider a smaller trailer or a more competent tow vehicle.

[Pomkai]

Golden Rule

[Pomkai]

Golden Rule

[hankpage]

Originally Posted by Pomkai

we have the option of following with another vehicle that would have all the gear and passengers if need be. Just looking at all the viable options....

↑ There is one option ↑ ..... I think folks here are just trying to get the point across that manufacturers shipping weight is always lighter than actual weight. (Even if only by propane and battery and those are mostly right on the hitch raising tongue weight considerably ) Forget what folks have told you and check the sticker on YOUR tv and see if you are over RAWR or cargo capacity. You may also be over on your tires load capacity. ( common on SUVs and ½ tons) JM2¢, Hank

[f6bits]

You’ve yet to provide two critical numbers I’ve asked for twice: GVWR and Cargo Capacity – both should be on doorjamb stickers of the Landcruiser.

The rv.net crowd is pretty sharp; especially when it comes to towing. You’ll get similar responses here. It seems like you’re fishing around for people encourage you to get the 250BH. I’m only being irritating because of this and to hopefully make it sink in that your setup isn’t a good choice. As I said before, it’s possible that you’ll squeak by on specs, but you’ll grow to hate your towing experience. Mine got on my nerves so badly that I traded in my Jeep after arriving at my camping destination. I’m better able to enjoy my trips now.

Other numbers that only come in handy when you hit the scales are your gross axle weight ratings (GAWR). With that much trailer, I’m betting you’ll max out or exceed at least two capacities of the Landcruiser: Trailer Weight AND (Rear Axle weight AND/OR Cargo Capacity).

As for tire capacity, the P-Metric tires I’ve had on my Jeep and F150 are over 2500 lbs each, which far exceed the rear axle weight rating. And that makes sense, considering that the manufacturer specs stuff out to support their weight ratings.

The Landcruiser is a great vehicle, as was my Jeep. Just not when it comes to towing our trailers.

[azlee56]

a rollover wouldn't be too great. I saw one like that do it.

[fla-gypsy]

That set up would be marginal at best. Could you do it? Yeah you probably could but it will not be fun pulling it and there is inherent risks that may be quite serious.

[SAABDOCTOR]

HI. Stop using the empty weight and use the max weight listed on the tag for your trailer. some day you will be at that weight. and your yota is marginal. marginal is good in the driveway not on the road. every poster here is telling you (nicely) that you should do a lighter tt or a stronger tv. i am with them. remember you toyota can pull it but can it stop it? and will it stay shinny side up is what you also need to consider. i too think your tv is too small to do what you are asking safely. good luck with your quest. i am even smiling as i typed this.

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

Normally ya'll won't see me post very much in this forum.
I see at least once a week someone asking the same question...
only it's not the question that is in the words. They ask "what is
your opinion of this or that combination of TV and RV... and what
they are really asking (IMO), is "can I get away with this ?????"
As if should just one person on here say yes to their quest for
'permission' to do something that dosen't quite feel 'right', then
it will be OK. When the answers they receive are not the approval
they are looking for (this ain't 'T'-ball ), they generally show
a lack of ability to express acceptance and move on.

I agree with the poster that expressed the idea of "look at the Gross
weight ratings for both vehicles... I would also add allow some % of safety
factor 5 - 10 % , to allow for the ineveatable variables that
occour.

I'm done now.....

hankaye