Changed my mind, get Diesel instead of GAS

[mtofell]

I've had both and both have their pros/cons. Of course, diesel is favored towing. I'm currently gas towing around 10K and am reasonably happy. Reality is I'm working most days towing nothing so the gas if great. My next truck will likely be diesel and once I'm able to get out and camp/tow more than work of course I'll go diesel. The new gas offerings and the complexity of the diesels has narrowed the gap a bit between the two IMO.

[esmoglo]

I purchased a Gas truck (3/4 ton) mainly because I don’t need all the power and torque for everyday driving. Purchase price is more for the Diesel, oil changes are more, plus the DEF fluid you have to add I would need to put 250K plus miles on the truck before the Diesel would pay me back not worth it for me.

[nesparky]

I wouldn't sweat the cost of changing oil and fuel filters.
The first time is always sticker shock going from $30 oil changes to $60 or more oil changes and add in fuel filters (2 on the 2013+ Cummins) $100 or more. That's if you do it yourself.
Dealer doing it for you - $100 oil change, fuel filters I've seen go from $250-$400 depending on how greedy they are.
DEF added about every 2,000-4,000 miles average cost $12 for a 2 1/2 jug of Peak from Walmart. Truck stop is about 1/2 that if you go to a def pump.

[bsmith0404]

I didn't even look at the cost of filter/oil changes. The average person will change the oil twice a year and fuel filter once. DEF would be a 2-3 times per year fill up. How does that all break down?

Oil change, I do my own and buy Baldwin filters on-line $7 each. I buy a 5 gallon bucket of oil (Mystik JT-8 15W-40 Synthetic Blend) from Tractor Supply when it's on sale, typically around $50, but even at $60 it's still only $3 per qt. So worst case scenario, $75 per year for oil changes.

I fill DEF at the pump. At around $12 per fill up, it may cost me $35 per year.

As for fuel filters. I have a FASS system and use NAPA gold filters. They're good for 25-30k miles, I change them once a year. Again around $7 each, but I'll just estimate high and say $20 for fuel filters.

Total spent on routine maintenance $130 per year if you drive between 15-20k miles. That's not even worth a consideration. With my RV I need a diesel, but even if I didn't, I could easily justify owning one just by the smile on my face every time I do have to pull anything over 5k lbs.

[PerryB]

With the difference in price between the two powertrains, fuel cost is literally the last thing to consider when making the choice. The two biggest considerations should be :

1) Do you need it - how big is the trailer? A modern turbo diesel has twice the effective power of its gasoline counterpart.

2) Maintenance cost - a diesel is roughly twice the maintenance $$.

The difference in fuel cost is nearly meaningless. The difference in heavy towing is almost indescribable. A gas truck pulling 10K up a 6% grade will be working near its capacity and letting you know it - low gear, high rpm and lots of fan noise. The diesel barely takes notice.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by PerryB

With the difference in price between the two powertrains, fuel cost is literally the last thing to consider when making the choice. The two biggest considerations should be :

1) Do you need it - how big is the trailer? A modern turbo diesel has twice the effective power of its gasoline counterpart.

2) Maintenance cost - a diesel is roughly twice the maintenance $$.

The difference in fuel cost is nearly meaningless. The difference in heavy towing is almost indescribable. A gas truck pulling 10K up a 6% grade will be working near its capacity and letting you know it - low gear, high rpm and lots of fan noise. The diesel barely takes notice.

I've had a 12v Cummins since 1996 and followed that with a 24v. Besides replacing two batteries instead of one, I just don't see twice the maintenance costs, especially when doing the maintenance myself.

My wife's Volvo is another story. It has been extremely reliable, but Volvo wants $1000 to replace the cam belt and water pump. I think the type of vehicle and DIY are bigger factors, rather than just gas vs diesel. Personally, I'd much rather work on my Cummins than a Duramax or a Powerstroke...or my wife's Volvo where I have to disassemble to gain access to something as simple as spark plugs.

Regardless of actual costs, nothing beats a diesel for towing a heavier trailer, so that should be the prinary factor, particularly in the mountains.

[PerryB]

Originally Posted by Desert185

I've had a 12v Cummins since 1996 and followed that with a 24v. Besides replacing two batteries instead of one, I just don't see twice the maintenance costs, especially when doing the maintenance myself.

My wife's Volvo is another story. It has been extremely reliable, but Volvo wants $1000 to replace the cam belt and water pump. I think the type of vehicle and DIY are bigger factors, rather than just gas vs diesel. Personally, I'd much rather work on my Cummins than a Duramax or a Powerstroke...or my wife's Volvo where I have to disassemble to gain access to something as simple as spark plugs.

Regardless of actual costs, nothing beats a diesel for towing a heavier trailer, so that should be the prinary factor, particularly in the mountains.

I agree completely, I was just spelling out "textbook" conditions. I do as much of my own maintenance /repair as possible, and under these conditions the increase in cost is materials only and quite small. Once you've had a TD you're spoiled for life, it really doesn't matter who made it. They're all good. They're like the 185/Supercub of trucks.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by PerryB

I agree completely, I was just spelling out "textbook" conditions. I do as much of my own maintenance /repair as possible, and under these conditions the increase in cost is materials only and quite small. Once you've had a TD you're spoiled for life, it really doesn't matter who made it. They're all good. They're like the 185/Supercub of trucks.

Two of my favorites, but leaning more towards the 185. I wonder why?

[Model A Driver]

Most of the big gassers and the EcoBoost require premium to effectively tow . Right now premium is much more than diesel here [Ga].

[bitten]

My 2015 Ecoboost towed 7000 on regular really well.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Bugbitten

My 2015 Ecoboost towed 7000 on regular really well.

From the 2015 Ford F150 Owner's Manual, page 167: "To provide improved performance, we recommend premium fuel for severe duty usage, such as trailer tow."

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Fo...US_08_2015.pdf

[bitten]

Not disputing the manual, just saying what works.

[bsmith0404]

I haven't seen an ecoboost with an exhaust brake yet. There's a lot more to towing heavy loads than moving forward. I also like a 7-9k lb truck with a big heavy motor over the front wheels, where the majority of braking work is done, when I have a lot of weight on the back trying to lift the front. An F150 doesn't even tip the scales at 5k lbs. It still amazes me that manufacturers brag about how much these half ton trucks can haul/tow and then put a P tire on them so they ride like a car. If you want to get into a towing battle with a "truck" , then equip it like a "truck"...Just saying.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Bugbitten

My 2015 Ecoboost towed 7000 on regular really well.

My 2001 Ram 5.9 CTD pulls and stops our 11,000#+ 5er really well also with about 100 less HP.

[Ram189]

Those Ford EcoBoost are still pretty and new.

As a Service Director at a dealership wait until 25000 and 30000 miles and tell me how that turbo is holding up on that gas engine after towing a load. It will still be covered by powertrain most likely but I bet they are going to be replacing a bunch of them eventually for oil leaks and bad bearings.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by Ram189

Those Ford EcoBoost are still pretty and new.

As a Service Director at a dealership wait until 25000 and 30000 miles and tell me how that turbo is holding up on that gas engine after towing a load. It will still be covered by powertrain most likely but I bet they are going to be replacing a bunch of them eventually for oil leaks and bad bearings.

Interesting. More issues with a turbo on a gas engine? I haven't has that problem having had turbos on cars and pickups since 1980. Not one failure on three gas vehicles and two diesels, but then the type of oil, frequency of changes and a cool down before shutdown is part of the operating process for me.

The 2004 Volvo in the pic has 175,000 miles and no turbo issues.

What issues did you experience with turbos?

[jje1960]

Originally Posted by PerryB

With the difference in price between the two powertrains, fuel cost is literally the last thing to consider when making the choice. The two biggest considerations should be :

1) Do you need it - how big is the trailer? A modern turbo diesel has twice the effective power of its gasoline counterpart.

2) Maintenance cost - a diesel is roughly twice the maintenance $$.

The difference in fuel cost is nearly meaningless. The difference in heavy towing is almost indescribable. A gas truck pulling 10K up a 6% grade will be working near its capacity and letting you know it - low gear, high rpm and lots of fan noise. The diesel barely takes notice.

I'll jump on this post with a thumbs up, considering our rig and what we tow, if I had to do it again, it would be another diesel dually. Just ones perspective.

[Dave W]

Some 'interesting' fuel mileage numbers

My 6.7 was in the 21.4 mpg unloaded highway range - that is until I put the optional size tires on it the did a miles and mph check. The GPS, two separate ones, a 2597 and a 760RV, the speedometer and the Scangauge all read the same. The mileage is now 18.3 - 19.5 and I believe correct. Towing - it went down from about 13.2 to about 12 with the Montana hooked on from about 13.2

Not a big deal when you consider the price of the truck and the 5er. What was a big deal was going from a V10 to a diesel - 7 mpg on a good day hauling a 12K 5er and the range of a SB V10 vs the much bigger fuel tank on a diesel long bed.

As far as maintenance - that hurts some at 13 quarts of oil, a $17 buck oil filter and a $60 buck pair of fuel filters - but at 2x a year, even that's not really a big deal either with the ease that this 'beast' hauls a 12,000 pound, 38 feet long trailer up and down hills. As far as which brand is best - I like my Fords but the other two do just as good a job for their owners as well

[mikereidjr]

Really Really wanted a diesel, I have wanted one since I was 14, however i just cant justify the 9k difference in price.

My F250 with the 6.2 is great, It screams a bit up the grades, but I keeps chugging.

I really don't regret it.

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by mikereidjr

Really Really wanted a diesel, I have wanted one since I was 14, however i just cant justify the 9k difference in price.

My F250 with the 6.2 is great, It screams a bit up the grades, but I keeps chugging.

I really don't regret it.

Same thought, but really to me the difference was much greater than the base $9000 on the diesel engine option. The dealership just would not negotiate as much on the diesel models as the gas 6.4L, since they clearly know the value of the diesel. I've posted several times before, but I'd say the real difference between the gas versus diesel option was more like $15,000, when all haggling was done and over.