2012 Cougar 327RES Spare Tire Issues? - Page 2

RCrawler · 04-02-2012, 07:28 PM

So far, I haven't had any issues with cracking on mine. I run with the bumper extended and have a 4- bike rack mounted on behind that.

I'm going to cut off the thin sheetmetal bumper and replace it with some thicker wall material. And since the spare drags going up the driveway, I'm going to redesign the mount so that it is higher and solidly mounted to the bumper, with no more cute little u-bolts. I really like the toolbox that was mounted and I might do something similar with the slide out rack to get rid of some Rubbermaid containers.

Jason

DaleB · 04-08-2012, 04:15 PM

RickR,
I have a 2011 CourgerSAB318 and Yes the spare tire bolted from the factory with the bike rack in the extended position can definatly bottom out. I know it happened to me. I was pulling out a parking lot on to a side road after leaving a resturant in Kentucky and was going up a steep grade. That night some 3 hours latter when we stopped for the night I noticed that the tire was hanging on by just the 1 bolt as when the tire bottomed out the bracket bent and actually saved the tire from being damaged. I am now in the process of installing the tire underneath the trailer. I have the frame all welded up and ordered a tire winch from Lippert. It looks great and after I get it painted I will install it. Also I have redone the bike rack and have installed an Aluminum truck tool box that holds all my electrical and water hoses and fittings along with an Outboard motor for my inflatable boat. I am glad I got the spare off of the back because that weighs about 60-70 pounds and that pull out rack is only rated at 200 lbs.

Camp I am · 04-09-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleB

RickR,
I have a 2011 CourgerSAB318 and Yes the spare tire bolted from the factory with the bike rack in the extended position can definatly bottom out. I know it happened to me. I was pulling out a parking lot on to a side road after leaving a resturant in Kentucky and was going up a steep grade. That night some 3 hours latter when we stopped for the night I noticed that the tire was hanging on by just the 1 bolt as when the tire bottomed out the bracket bent and actually saved the tire from being damaged. I am now in the process of installing the tire underneath the trailer. I have the frame all welded up and ordered a tire winch from Lippert. It looks great and after I get it painted I will install it. Also I have redone the bike rack and have installed an Aluminum truck tool box that holds all my electrical and water hoses and fittings along with an Outboard motor for my inflatable boat. I am glad I got the spare off of the back because that weighs about 60-70 pounds and that pull out rack is only rated at 200 lbs.

Would love to see some pictures when you're all done of both the box on the rear and the new underbody tire lift.

chuckretnav · 04-12-2012, 11:27 AM

Second camping trip on the way home wife see a Mick D (Mcdonald) that has truck parking. we got in ok no problem. the drive had a dip in it and should of been more observent of how deep the dip was. Coming out did not feel a thing. Got to the home 20 and was checking things before I backed in and both of my spares (yes two) where pulled out to the rear. And almost off the tire racks. That dip got us. Took off the spares and the racks and now carry my spares in the bed of my truck. Next trip was to Texas and one or two the fuel stops I made was glad the spares where in the truck. Had just bare minium clearence on rear bumber to get in and out of the fuel pumps. 327res has a 13 foot over hang from last axle. Big swing and big tail drag. Going to Texas for good this next trip.

ptfire · 04-29-2012, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickR

Anyone out there have a similar rig w/ a pullout bike rack on the back end? The mfg. provided spare tire holder on mine has the 4" cross bar winged out and the single bolt holding the entire wheel/tire. First encounter was on the way up to Wisconsin Dells, WI. Pulled into the site, walked around the rig and here is the spare tire hanging by a single bolt. The 4" cross bar was winged out so it would not keep the tire snug to the verticle bar and where the single bolt was holding whole tire was bent. Tried 2x unsuccessfully with my dealer and talking directly to Keystone to get this covered under warranty. No can do. Supposedly, I either bottomed out the back bumper (which the tire can't hit the ground even if it happened) or I hit something with the tire (which if the case it would be winged backwards and not forwards to fall off. Anyone similar issue?

Yes, we pulled into a campground last night and noticed the spare looked slightly crooked. After examining the tire and entire rack, we realized the wing plate was bent, etc... Sounds exactly like your issue. Our concern was the tire was wobbly and possibly could come loose from road vibration. We secure the tire with some wire we had on board.It seems if you use the bike rack in the extented position at some point it will bottom out. Have you resolved the issue? We are considering ways to resolve. We really like our rv and have been enjoying it.Thanks ptfire

ptfire · 05-01-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickR

Anyone out there have a similar rig w/ a pullout bike rack on the back end? The mfg. provided spare tire holder on mine has the 4" cross bar winged out and the single bolt holding the entire wheel/tire. First encounter was on the way up to Wisconsin Dells, WI. Pulled into the site, walked around the rig and here is the spare tire hanging by a single bolt. The 4" cross bar was winged out so it would not keep the tire snug to the verticle bar and where the single bolt was holding whole tire was bent. Tried 2x unsuccessfully with my dealer and talking directly to Keystone to get this covered under warranty. No can do. Supposedly, I either bottomed out the back bumper (which the tire can't hit the ground even if it happened) or I hit something with the tire (which if the case it would be winged backwards and not forwards to fall off. Anyone similar issue?

We also have a 327RES and a few days ago discovered that we had the same exact problem, but our tire does hang several inches below the bumper line. We believe that when the bike rack is extended, the extra length that results increases your chance of bottoming out when on uneven ground. In our opinion this is a design flaw. Have you made any progress in resolving this issue? Due to the bracket being bent out, the tire wobbles on the one bolt holding it to the tire rack and that is also a design flaw.

PT Fire

bob5camp5 · 05-03-2012, 12:06 PM

I have never used my bike rack, so I have never encountered a problem with it. I have had the recall work done to my spare tire mount. My tire now has two bolts holding it and the welds have extra braces. I have no problems. If I ever do extend my bike rack hitch and set a bike or two on it, I will let you know. But, it's working fine now, pretty sure it will be fine with a bike or two, what do bikes weigh? Maybe 50 lbs each? How could this pose a problem. Just my two cents.

Camp I am · 05-03-2012, 05:54 PM

Mine came with the 2 bolts and the thin black metal bracket, but when I looked at it closer I found that both of the bolts were cross threaded bad, so bad that I snapped both off while removing them. So in the first picture you can see that I've replaced the thin metal 'butter' bracket with a more beefy piece of steel (painted yellow). 2nd picture shows the differences in the thickness. I have to buy a longer bolt before I'm road ready as you can see, with the new thicker piece I'm right at the end of the threads. Other than that the welds look not great, but ok, I'll keep an eye on them till I have a chance to do some welding. Oh yes and the cable looking thing is my cable lock so that my tire stays where I left it

ptfire · 05-05-2012, 04:14 PM

Bob and Camp,

I am wondering how many inches below the bumper is your spare tire located? If your tire is below the bumper, and your tire hits the pavement, something has to give, and perhaps that is why they put in such a thin wing brace, because the wing brace will bend when the tire moves and save the rim from absorbing the energy and bending. Also, the tire bracket itself bent as well when our tire hit the pavement. The solution, I believe is either raise the tire above the bumper level, or place it in a rack under the unit behind the axle. Lippert sells a product for under the unit.

PTfire

ptfire · 05-05-2012, 04:19 PM

Bob 5,

You mentioned you had recall work done on your tire mount. We called Keystone and asked if there was a recall done for this situation and they said no recall was issued. Who did you speak to about the recall?

PTfire

Camp I am · 05-05-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptfire

Bob and Camp,

I am wondering how many inches below the bumper is your spare tire located? If your tire is below the bumper, and your tire hits the pavement, something has to give, and perhaps that is why they put in such a thin wing brace, because the wing brace will bend when the tire moves and save the rim from absorbing the energy and bending. Also, the tire bracket itself bent as well when our tire hit the pavement. The solution, I believe is either raise the tire above the bumper level, or place it in a rack under the unit behind the axle. Lippert sells a product for under the unit.

PTfire

The tire hangs 3.5 inches below the bumper. I thought of that also but the thin metal with the vibration back there was bending on it's own to the degree that I can't trust it. If it hits the bracket it flimsy enough to fail I'm sure. Also been thinking of calling these folks to see the dimensions of this one. Not sure if heavier duty or not, looks pretty much the same as what I have but if it lifts the tire higher then problem may be solved. For the price if it's a solution it's cheaper than my time to weld anything. http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/b...tire-mount.htm

Camp I am · 05-05-2012, 05:03 PM

Another thing I've been thinking about is bolting a piece of steel plate into the current tire carriers 2 bolt holes with this new plates own 2 holes positioned up to reposition the tire higher. This would bolt tight to the current bottom hole and utilize the current top hole on the carrier as the one that the steel plate would be bolted through, then the new top hole on the added plate of steel for the other bolt to go into the rims lug hole. This would move it up aprox 3".

This may be hard to visualize unless you go out and look at your carrier.

66ken · 05-06-2012, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptfire

Bob 5,

You mentioned you had recall work done on your tire mount. We called Keystone and asked if there was a recall done for this situation and they said no recall was issued. Who did you speak to about the recall?

PTfire

The recall was for units built before Feb 2010. They added a gusset on the top of the mount.

ptfire · 05-06-2012, 07:45 AM

After my post last night, I found that there are two companies so far that make a bumper mount tire carrier similar to the one on our unit. It looks like the Stromberg-Carlson model (retail $29.95!). There is another company, Ultra-Fab Products, that also has one, but there are bolts reinforcing the weld points to the band of metal that the tire is mounted to. The bigger question is this: Are either of these tire carriers really strong enough to hold a 16" tire? The recall in 2010 would lead me to say no, and the gusset that was welded onto the pre-existing tire carriers (looks like the Stromberg-Carlson model), is a bandaid on a broken leg. The tire carrier is designed for a smaller tire (look on the Ultra-Fab site, it says it is designed for up to 8 lug Kelsey Hayes type wheels and Fayette type travel trailer wheels). Next step would be to call S-C and ask them if theirs can hold a 16" tire. And yes, the next item on the list is to find one really designed to keep the tire above the bumber line(or a second recall for Keystone to provide one) or an undermount system that makes sense for this unit. On another thread of this forum (2012 Cougar 327RES Spare Tire Issues?), several people just put the tire in their basement. Other good comments on that thread. Thanks for all imput and appreciate any other comments....

PTfire

rv4d · 05-10-2012, 02:35 PM

I experienced this with my new Cougar after my second day of ownership attempting to back into my driveway. Luckily I only ripped the tire cover.

After reading all previous posts and looking closely at the bumper, it appears that the wheel hangs below the bumper by about 2 3/4" and the bottom of the bumper is about 1 3/4' below the horizontal rack extension rail (See images).

It seems obvious to me the the wheel bottom needs to be even with or slightly higher than the bumper. Additionally, I see no reason not to move the bumper up on the two extension rails about 1".

After making those two changes, it appears that I/we could gain about 3" of clearance at the bumper. That is a lot with about 13' of overhang.

Anyone see flaws in this? Must be some...

LarryL · 05-10-2012, 03:47 PM

I to saw that the tire was below the bumper and also the
tire would not stay tight on the bumper tire mount,
so I took the tire and mount off and put the tire
in the basement it does take up room but
we all put to much stuff in the basement.

**JRTJH** · 05-10-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv4d

I experienced this with my new Cougar after my second day of ownership attempting to back into my driveway. Luckily I only ripped the tire cover.

After reading all previous posts and looking closely at the bumper, it appears that the wheel hangs below the bumper by about 2 3/4" and the bottom of the bumper is about 1 3/4' below the horizontal rack extension rail (See images).

It seems obvious to me the the wheel bottom needs to be even with or slightly higher than the bumper. Additionally, I see no reason not to move the bumper up on the two extension rails about 1".

After making those two changes, it appears that I/we could gain about 3" of clearance at the bumper. That is a lot with about 13' of overhang.

Anyone see flaws in this? Must be some...

Looking at your pictures, it appears that if you draw a straight line from the bottom of your rear tires to the bottom of the bumper, the line is just below the two stabilizer jacks. Maybe the bumper is positioned low on the extension rails to protect the stabilizer jacks from being scraped or torn off should you hit an incline. Our Holiday Rambler had an ENORMOUS rear overhang and it had 2 skid plates welded to the rear bumper/extension. I mounted the skid wheels on those skid plates. That gave me an extra 4" of protection before the bumper would scrape the ground. You may find that it would be simpler to just weld a couple of 90 degree steel plates to the bottom of the bumper/extension arm and bolt on the roller wheels rather than try to reposition the bumper.... Hope I explained so you can understand what I'm saying... If it's confusing, let me know and I will explain in more detail.

rv4d · 05-10-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Maybe the bumper is positioned low on the extension rails to protect the stabilizer jacks from being scraped or torn off should you hit an incline. ........................You may find that it would be simpler to just weld a couple of 90 degree steel plates to the bottom of the bumper/extension arm and bolt on the roller wheels rather than try to reposition the bumper.... ..................l.

Explained perfectly, thanks. I wondered about that too and it is close - maybe too close. I question whether the extension rails will hold the weight or be damaged.

Certainly the simplest first change is to remove the tire or raise the tire rack about 4". Guess putting the tire in the basement may be worth a try, just don't want to give up the space.

chuckretnav · 05-20-2012, 10:43 AM

first trip out I had the same problem as everyone else. So I took off my spare and I carry it in the bed of truck. I have a long bed on mine and it fits in the nose in front of the fifth wheel. I also take my portable blue tank and put it on top of the spare and strap it all down. But if you have a short bed then you may not have the room.

dtas · 05-20-2012, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckretnav

first trip out I had the same problem as everyone else. So I took off my spare and I carry it in the bed of truck. I have a long bed on mine and it fits in the nose in front of the fifth wheel. I also take my portable blue tank and put it on top of the spare and strap it all down. But if you have a short bed then you may not have the room.

This is what I'm doing until I figure another place to carry it. My last 5er had a winch for the spare between the front landing gear area. That is what I'll probably go for. You can purchase the winch at the Lippert website.

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