Generator bonding

[jasin1]

a video and an article on the importance of floating neutral generators being properly bonded for rv use…if you use an ems it will usually prevent the generator from supplying power if it’s not bonded.
The danger is when you buy a floating neutral gen and do not use an ems you would not know that you aren’t protected against a shock hazard as some wiring problems will not trip the breaker …most modern inverter gens are floating neutral.

if connected to your house it would get its bonding thru your 1st disconnect means which is usually your electric breaker panel..or a service disconnect installed after the meter. Very important to know what kind of generator your installing in both your home and rv as the consequence of having the wrong internal wiring could be deadly…
In an rv the breaker panel is not bonded because you can only bond once..and it is supposed to happen at the campground electric panel.

talk with a licensed electrician if you have any doubts or questions about your electric system

also if you do use your inverter floating neutral generator to feed your house during an emergency you would remove the bonding plug accessory you have plugged into the outlet on the generator…never unbond a permanently factory bonded generator unless it specifies you can do so in the owners manual


again talk with an electrician if you do not possess the skills or license to determine your particular situation

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...ng_generators/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-bTLdMjuqU

[hlh1]

This is excellent. Where were you last summer when I needed this info?


I ended up buying a similar plug for my inverter/generator off Amazon.

[xrated]

I'm in the process of buying a very large "portable" generator (20,000W) for my house for backup power in case of extended outages. The generator comes from the factory as a bonded neutral style, but you can easily unbond it by simply removing the end cap/cover and removing the bonded jumper on the output terminals. They know that the generator will be used for both portable applications as well as home applications, so someone planned ahead and designed it to be easy to swap back and forth if needed......and no, the above number is NOT a typo, it's 20,000W running and like 28,000 peak wattage. They've been on backorder. Original shipping date was Feb 10th, then March 3rd, and now April 21st.

[jasin1]

That’s a big generator, I wouldn’t disconnect the bonding unless it says you can do that in the owners manual….even if you do I would put some sort of label on the generator staying it was altered from the factory wiring in case someone else ends up using it

[hlh1]

In 2021 I installed a Generac 24KVA, whole house, generator. They were also on back order for months. It's "bonded" for sure, to a huge copper grounding wire and rod.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by hlh1

In 2021 I installed a Generac 24KVA, whole house, generator. They were also on back order for months. It's "bonded" for sure, to a huge copper grounding wire and rod.

i responded to this one by mistake..corrected below

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by xrated

I'm in the process of buying a very large "portable" generator (20,000W) for my house for backup power in case of extended outages. The generator comes from the factory as a bonded neutral style, but you can easily unbond it by simply removing the end cap/cover and removing the bonded jumper on the output terminals. They know that the generator will be used for both portable applications as well as home applications, so someone planned ahead and designed it to be easy to swap back and forth if needed......and no, the above number is NOT a typo, it's 20,000W running and like 28,000 peak wattage. They've been on backorder. Original shipping date was Feb 10th, then March 3rd, and now April 21st.

Originally Posted by jasin1

How will you utilize all 20kw of the portable gen at your house? You’re limited to a 50 amp cord to your home transfer switch..but you could power two buildings next to each other I guess by using the 50 and 30. You and your neighbor for instance

i replied to the wrong post earlier meant to respond to yours lol

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by xrated

I'm in the process of buying a very large "portable" generator (20,000W) for my house for backup power in case of extended outages. The generator comes from the factory as a bonded neutral style, but you can easily unbond it by simply removing the end cap/cover and removing the bonded jumper on the output terminals. They know that the generator will be used for both portable applications as well as home applications, so someone planned ahead and designed it to be easy to swap back and forth if needed......and no, the above number is NOT a typo, it's 20,000W running and like 28,000 peak wattage. They've been on backorder. Original shipping date was Feb 10th, then March 3rd, and now April 21st.

I installed a Multiquip 45kva Whisperwatt diesel generator last year for emergency power at my house. It generates 36,000 watts and is so quiet that I can stand next to it while it is running wide open and still talk in a normal voice. I also installed an automatic crossover switch that runs the generator once monthly for 30 minutes to exercise it. My house is all electric with 15,000 watts of electric heat so with an electric water heater, electric cook stove and electric everything else I will still have plenty of power. I do not like to run a generator over 75% of rated capacity anyways.

[jxnbbl]

Originally Posted by hlh1

This is excellent. Where were you last summer when I needed this info?


I ended up buying a similar plug for my inverter/generator off Amazon.

On our first trip with a generator it was difficult to even find what I wanted and found (not the exact model)....but had it delivered to a family member along our route so I could pick it up for our journey. I had forgotten about this and was highly disappointed when my Ems would not power our trailer.

But here is another link from the same guy with more than the video - I stopped at a hardware store and happen made my own neutral bond plug and was fine for the rest of the trip. (search for DIY)
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...plug-rvt-1076/

[hlh1]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

On our first trip with a generator it was difficult to even find what I wanted and found (not the exact model)....but had it delivered to a family member along our route so I could pick it up for our journey. I had forgotten about this and was highly disappointed when my Ems would not power our trailer.

But here is another link from the same guy with more than the video - I stopped at a hardware store and happen made my own neutral bond plug and was fine for the rest of the trip. (search for DIY)
https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electric...plug-rvt-1076/

I have a pedestal mount EMS so I could just hook up the TT directly to the generator and avoid this problem. But, first time I ran the generator I put the EMS in line and found this issue.

[jxnbbl]

I do too...I'm just one of those people that doesn't run anything without the EMS in between the shore cord and source. I did plug my coffee maker directly into the generator that morning

[jasin1]

mistaken post sorry

[jasin1]

[QUOTE=hlh1;530093]I have a pedestal mount EMS so I could just hook up the TT directly to the generator and avoid this problem. But, first time I ran the generator I put the EMS in line and found this issue.[/QUOTE

i’d just use a bonding plug

[hlh1]

[QUOTE=jasin1;530098]

Originally Posted by hlh1

I have a pedestal mount EMS so I could just hook up the TT directly to the generator and avoid this problem. But, first time I ran the generator I put the EMS in line and found this issue.[/QUOTE

i’d just use a bonding plug

Good advice.

[jasin1]

[QUOTE=hlh1;530099]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Good advice.

you would think that all generators would have a instruction label for rv vs home use as a large percent of generators are used for rvs…and provide a bonding switch to allow the generator to meet both needs

[xrated]

Originally Posted by jasin1

That’s a big generator, I wouldn’t disconnect the bonding unless it says you can do that in the owners manual….even if you do I would put some sort of label on the generator staying it was altered from the factory wiring in case someone else ends up using it

It does give specific instructions on the bonding jumper removal in the owners manual, which I downloaded online from Westinghouse, since I don't actually have the generator yet. They also recommend that you save the bonding jumper AND put a warning label on it if you do make the modification of removing the bonding jumper

[xrated]

Originally Posted by hlh1

In 2021 I installed a Generac 24KVA, whole house, generator. They were also on back order for months. It's "bonded" for sure, to a huge copper grounding wire and rod.

In the case of the whole house generators like yours, the ATS is made so that it disconnects the neutral also. The house breaker panel is where the neutral/ground bonding is and by it taking that out of the "loop" so to speak, the generator does need the separate ground rod like the one that your house breaker panel system has. You always need to make sure that the added generator is not neutral bonded if you are going to hook it up to a house, unless the ATS that you use, also breaks the house neutral away from the system and has it's own ground rod

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by xrated

It does give specific instructions on the bonding jumper removal in the owners manual, which I downloaded online from Westinghouse, since I don't actually have the generator yet. They also recommend that you save the bonding jumper AND put a warning label on it if you do make the modification of removing the bonding jumper

well that’s good about the bonding…are you able to get more then 50 amps to a transfer switch?
… i wondered how the higher wattage units would work for whole house power….but at least they wouldn’t be operating full throttle i suppose…sounds like a nice unit

[hlh1]

Originally Posted by xrated

In the case of the whole house generators like yours, the ATS is made so that it disconnects the neutral also. The house breaker panel is where the neutral/ground bonding is and by it taking that out of the "loop" so to speak, the generator does need the separate ground rod like the one that your house breaker panel system has. You always need to make sure that the added generator is not neutral bonded if you are going to hook it up to a house, unless the ATS that you use, also breaks the house neutral away from the system and has it's own ground rod

It was professionally installed and then inspected by the county so I hope/expect it to be done correctly, or at least to local code.

[{tpc}]

Does the bonded neutral thing come up when using a generator that has a RV specific outlet?