Needing to upgrade my tow vehicle...

dirt33 · 12-19-2015, 05:27 PM

I currently use an F150 to pull a Bullet tt. We enjoy it, but want to step up to a 5th wheel. We bought the Bullet a year and a half ago, knowing that we would want something bigger, but wanting to try it out for awhile to make sure we enjoyed RV'ing before making a much more expensive purchase.

So, I of course am looking for a heavier duty truck. The truck would not be a daily driver (the F150 I have is a 2008 with 59,000 miles, and any replacement truck would get a similar amount of usage). I like Fords, so am looking for an F350 dually. Low mileage is my "most sought after" variable. Given that it won't get driven a bunch, shelling out the money for a new, or nearly new, model just isn't practical.

I came across the following truck and am looking for the opinions of those more knowledgable than I am about diesel trucks. I have done a brief amount of research, and of course have "some" thoughts. However, anytime I know that I am not very well versed on a topic, I really enjoy getting advice here, as I know that there is a level of expertise here that is well beyond my experience.

So, is the following truck a decent deal? Is the 6.0 power stroke, especially one from the 2006 time period, something to stay away from? Thank you for any and all advice.

http://www.rockwallautodirect.com/we...exas/26625834/

**chuckster57** · 12-19-2015, 05:51 PM

I would say your best bet is to cruise a couple of ford truck forums. The diesel stop is one, Ford truck enthusiasts is another. You will find tons of threads discussing this drivetrain. Some call it the 6 uh oh, the 6 oh no to name a couple.

I have a few customers with 6.0L Fords with 100,000 miles on them and zero issues. There isn't enough time to explain all the possible issues and the fixes, and that doesn't mean the truck your looking at will have any problems.

I would shy away from any truck with a 6.0 that had a tuner on a stock engine. There are things to make the 6.0 bullet proof, but it costs $$ if you can't do the work yourself.

Would I buy one? Yeah, for the right price but since I have wrenched on vehicles for 40+ yrs. I would also do the preventative fixes before I hitched up to my fiver.

I'll let others chime in, but again spend some time on the forums I mentioned.

gearhead · 12-19-2015, 06:22 PM

Keep looking.
Tell me about that #33. ASCS? Where's it run?
Or, have I asked you about this already? Sounds kinda familiar. LOL

dirt33 · 12-19-2015, 06:42 PM

chuckster, thank you for the good info. I have been looking at some of the forums you suggested. In a situation such as this, I always like to ask on here for starters, as I do enough reading on here to know "who knows their stuff" and so on... I know there are tons of threads on here that cover the same basic topic that I am researching, this forum is very, very helpful.

gearhead, the Sprint Car is Lasoski's car from Knoxville Nats 2014. I am a big dirt track fan, as I know you are as well. I have been involved in racing long enough that I feel like I should have more first-hand knowledge of heavy duty (edit, what I mean is "heavier duty than a half ton") trucks. But, any racing I have ever done was on a "budget level" where an F150 pulled a simple open trailer. We are hoping to move up to a fifth wheel "as big as they come" soon. It sounds as though the particular truck I linked with the 6.0 power stroke will not be a good bet to pursue. Oh well, I'll just keep looking. Part of "finding the right match" for me, given that I am starting at square one, is figuring out "what not to do." That is where I really appreciate the info and help that is available on this forum.

**JRTJH** · 12-19-2015, 07:58 PM

dirt33,

Two of your comments strike a "familiar ring" with me. First, you say, "We are hoping to move up to a fifth wheel 'as big as they come' soon." and, "Given that it won't get driven a bunch, shelling out the money for a new, or nearly new, model just isn't practical."

First, with Ford, until 2015 (I believe, but it may have been 2014), the frame on the F450 was the same as the F350 and was not "as strong as the current models" (older models have some issues with frame twist/rigidity). The F350 DRW currently comes in "two models" one has the "conventional front end" that has been on F350 DRW's for years. The other is the "wide axle" that is "standard build" on F450/550 trucks and available on the F350 with the heavy duty towing package. That axle and the improved chassis rigidity make a significant difference when handling fifth wheels that are, to use your words, "as big as they come".

Secondly, the past 10 years have seen significant improvements in towing ability, reliability and value in every manufacturer's diesel line. The capabilities of the heaviest early SuperDuty models is matched by the "middle of the line" current offerings and the "larger models" in the SuperDuty line are "head and shoulders" improved over the same "name badge trucks" that were produced 5 or 10 years ago.

If you're seriously considering "as big as they come" you're very likely going to face some bothersome issues with "yesterday's technology". Will the truck you posted tow a 40' fifth wheel? Probably it will. Will it tow it within the "door sticker weight limits" and economically? That depends on far more than just "buying a dually with a diesel". You may do well to increase your search criteria to include F450/550 models or focus more on current model F350 HD towing options. Do some "soul searching" by crunching the weight numbers of the truck when hitched to the "trailer of your dreams". If you've already found the trailer, you're ahead of the game. If you buy a 10 year old dually and then find the trailer, and realize after signing the contract for the truck, that it isn't rated heavy enough, you've created more problems than just "being careful about buying a 6.0 with its reputation"...

dirt33 · 12-19-2015, 08:39 PM

JRTJH,

Excellent advice on your part, and certainly noted on my end. I have been thinking about this for weeks, and doing a fair amount of contemplating and looking (edit, more so on the trailer end, and not so much on the tow vehicle end until today). This evening, I have dove in head first and read more info than I can even keep straight in my head. I appreciate immensely all of the advice, thoughts, etc that everyone on this board shares. You do a particularly great job of explaining things from the exact angle that someone such as myself "needs to be thinking about."

I am not at all someone who can be comfortable "assuming that I have enough tool for the job." Sure, like anyone, doings things as cost-effectively as possible sounds good to me. But, not at the expense of being safe, prepared, etc. I have definitely come to the realization in the several hours of research tonight that I need to raise my level a bit in terms of what I will need to get the job done correctly. And that is ok with me. A huge part of my enjoyment in RV'ing is going down the Interstate knowing that my family not only is having a good time, but that they are safe and that they will reach their destination in a reliable manner. The cost associated with upgrading my tow vehicle to the level it needs to be will just end up being greater than I may have thought (or, "hoped")... But, that's not a deal breaker, and I am merely at the stage right now of familiarizing myself with all of the info that I will need to know. This forum is my favorite place to learn.

I guess my lean towards Ford is because a family friend who was a Ford dealer helped me get my first new vehicle back in the day, and I just never had any issues with the F150s that I have owned. But, given that I don't drive much on a daily basis, my trucks have had about as easy of a life as a vehicle could have. Now, looking at putting a whole lot more workload on a truck (during the times that it will actually get used, that is) I am starting to think, maybe my Ford days may come to an end? And with that, and thinking back to the reliability issue, yeah, maybe looking at used trucks 10 years old isn't where I should be looking. After getting about 2.5 pages into the Tow Vehicles board, I'd have to say, a new Dodge with a Cummins diesel is sounding like something that would serve a person pretty well for an application such as this... Lots of thinking to do and decisions to make of course. All part of the fun!

**chuckster57** · 12-19-2015, 09:17 PM

If you go Dodge, pay the $$ for the Aisin transmission.

dirt33 · 12-19-2015, 09:46 PM

Thanks chuckster. Thanks mostly to this forum, I have a pretty lengthy list drawn up of things to be looking for. The Dodges seem to have the best overall consensus on here.

bsmith0404 · 12-19-2015, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt33

Thanks chuckster. Thanks mostly to this forum, I have a pretty lengthy list drawn up of things to be looking for. The Dodges seem to have the best overall consensus on here.

Depends on who you ask. They're a good truck and a lot of people like them, but I will never have one in my driveway. GM has served me and most members of my family well for many years. My Dmax has towed about every type of trailer you can think of across this country and back again. A while back someone posted a link that showed the most popular vehicle in each state. The big 3 all had their areas of popularity. I transported RVs and talked with many people who are making a living with their trucks, all of the big 3 have their loyal owners that swear by them. In my days on the road talking to people who are towing 100k miles a year and more, I can say the Dmax owners seem to get the best fuel mileage, Cummins owners seem to have fewer engine related issues once you start getting into the 300k plus miles area, but have more front end and transmission problems. Ford owners, well to be honest, I didn't talk to many so I can't say a lot in comparison, but I know there are many who love their trucks. When you start talking about a 40' 5er, any of the new big 3 one ton duallies will get the job done.

Javi · 12-20-2015, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If you go Dodge, pay the $$ for the Aisin transmission.

Yep... this is a pay me a little now or pay me again and again and again thing.. the Aisin is the only way to go with the RAM

dirt33 · 12-20-2015, 08:29 AM

Thank you bsmith.

I do know what you mean about each manufacturer having its faithful
group of loyalists. I reckon for me, it will come down to where I can find the best deal, with of course the options that I desire (rear gear, trans, certain interior wishes, hoping for fifth wheel hitch prep, etc). I won't really rule out any of the 3 makes just yet. Dodge is getting the most of my attention now as the Cummins diesel is something that my brother has been trying to convince me is "the only way to go" for years. I have always been a GM car fan, from a motorsports perspective, but I have never owned a GM truck. Ford's of course I have the most experience with, but only with half ton gas trucks.

I am happy that pretty much everything I've done thus far in RVing has turned out very satisfactory, with no regrets or second thoughts. That is almost entirely due to getting good help on here, thinking things through, and being patient while looking, instead of buying on impulse. I certainly intend to operate the same way now, especially since these purchases will be more sizable than any we have made so far in terms of toys. Planning to do the truck first, and then dive back in to the "even more to choose from" world of fifth wheels. Planning to make sure that we buy a truck that will then allow us to look at any and all trailer possibilities.

dirt33 · 12-20-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Yep... this is a pay me a little now or pay me again and again and again thing.. the Aisin is the only way to go with the RAM

Thank you Javi. Again, I am appreciating getting good info and thoughts on here from the people who I know are knowledgable about these things. I actually was having a pretty good time last night talking to my wife about the whole "pay me know or pay me later" concept, as it relates to certain aspects of the various truck brands. She is more "on board with the idea" than I had previously known. The exciting part for me is that she will be every bit as thrilled as I will be when the day comes that we have the new equipment parked beside the house. I knew she would like RVing prior to our purchase of the travel trailer last summer, as we did a handful of motorhome rental trips over the years and had a blast. Well, our year and a half in the travel trailer has certainly affirmed my belief that RVing is something that we can both do together, and we both enjoy it tremendously. As we eye the move to a fifth wheel, we will be doing so with at least some thought given to, "what if we decide to sell the house and just live in the thing?" The 3 small dogs with us are our only kids.

bsmith0404 · 12-20-2015, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt33

Thank you bsmith.

I do know what you mean about each manufacturer having its faithful
group of loyalists. I reckon for me, it will come down to where I can find the best deal, with of course the options that I desire (rear gear, trans, certain interior wishes, hoping for fifth wheel hitch prep, etc). I won't really rule out any of the 3 makes just yet. Dodge is getting the most of my attention now as the Cummins diesel is something that my brother has been trying to convince me is "the only way to go" for years. I have always been a GM car fan, from a motorsports perspective, but I have never owned a GM truck. Ford's of course I have the most experience with, but only with half ton gas trucks.

I am happy that pretty much everything I've done thus far in RVing has turned out very satisfactory, with no regrets or second thoughts. That is almost entirely due to getting good help on here, thinking things through, and being patient while looking, instead of buying on impulse. I certainly intend to operate the same way now, especially since these purchases will be more sizable than any we have made so far in terms of toys. Planning to do the truck first, and then dive back in to the "even more to choose from" world of fifth wheels. Planning to make sure that we buy a truck that will then allow us to look at any and all trailer possibilities.

Very few trailer possibilities out there that any of the big 3 duallies can't handle. In fact, I'd go as far as to say if you find a trailer one can't handle, none of them will be able to handle it. There's only a couple I can think of that transport companies have to get special transporters for because they are beyond 1 ton capabilities.

The Cummins is a great motor, if you go that route make sure you get the Aisin (already mentioned). Dodge is the only company that offers 3 different power levels for the truck based only on the transmission placed behind it. Any GM person will tell you the Allison is the main advantage for GM and trumps anything you may gain from a Cummins. Basically, drive them all and get the one you feel most comfortable with, after all, it's your money. BTW, I'm currently sitting at 135k miles on my Dmax and have replaced one NoX sensor at 45k miles, (replaced under the 100k mile warranty) and one EGT sensor at 112k miles ($250 repair at the dealership, $65 for the part if I had done it myself, but I was on the road and just wanted a quick fix). Other than that, just routine maintenance.

As for motorsports perspective, IMO you can't beat the versatility of a small block chevy. I have built many different combinations for racecars, muscle cars, and trucks over the years.

dirt33 · 12-20-2015, 09:02 AM

Right on bsmith, thanks again, and I was glad to read your info about the good luck you have had with your truck from a reliability standpoint. I figure that the truck decision will end up seeming pretty simple compared to the point where we actually start looking at trailers.

Cyncwby · 12-20-2015, 10:03 AM

Dirt33 ..... I'm in the process of researching info for a '16 F350 dually crew cab so you're post hit home. As mentioned earlier the F350 can be ordered with what's called the "high capacity trailer tow" pkg. It is basically an '11-'13 (I think) F450. It's only $361 extra (Costco pricing) and more than well worth it as fas as I'm concerned.

It has a Dana 60 wide front axel (better turning radius), larger fenders with the little bumper extensions, max. front coil springs which increases GCWR from 31,900 to 35,000 and a 4.30 ring & pinion ONLY. It does not have the larger '15/'16 F450 14.53"/15.35" rotors but still has plenty of stopping power with 14.29" rotors frt and rr.

Make sure you get the "5th wheel/gooseneck hitch prep" $350 and "gooseneck hitch kit" $227 ..... never know when you might have to haul a goose trailer for someone. I'm passing on the Reese hitch that Ford sells for around $1600 as I have a Hensley TS3 air bag hitch already (very nice). You just have to buy the adapter plate to engage the Ford underbed hitch system.

As far as power, they all have plenty, now that Dodge has upped the Cummins to 900 lbs. ft it will be interesting if Ford upgrades the later '16 Powerstroke but I'm sure the ugly '17 will have more. I have plenty of go power in my '32 Victoria I'm building..... 507" Cadillac, 8.7:1 comp for todays gas but still dyno'd at 466 hp and 535 lbs.ft torque. Should be fun if I ever get it finished. Anyway good luck with whichever truck you choose...... Dave

dirt33 · 12-20-2015, 12:09 PM

Thank you for the info Dave. Pretty stout engine you're building there, have fun using that power!

EVMIII · 12-20-2015, 02:06 PM

My buddy owns the local diesel repair shop (truck and marine). He drives a Ford but doesn't pull anything heavier than about 9k boat. When I started looking his advice was GM, not because of the Duramax, but because of the Allison tranny. Good luck with your search, as has been previously mentioned here, I think any of the big three's current offerings can handle whatever you need. Find your best deal and roll. For what it's worth, I love my Chevy.

dirt33 · 12-21-2015, 07:26 PM

Thank you for some feedback EVMIII

T3/T4 Hybrid · 12-21-2015, 07:36 PM

I've had my Ram Cummins 2500 for the last six months and it's been a wonderful truck so far. I know it's not a lot of miles or time but I could not be more happy. Like everyone so far has stated I think any of the big three offerings will make their owners happy. I'm a little biased being a Mopar guy all the way around but the Cummins inline 6 was big plus for me. After looking at my friends Ford and GM diesels space under the hoods. I like the Cummins layout for future maintenance and repairs. Its easier to work on and where I do almost all of my own maintenance I can appreciate that.

If you choose Mopar's 3500 the newer aisin transmission is the way to go.

gearhead · 12-22-2015, 02:39 PM

I talked with my dealer about ordering the Ram 3500 and passed on the Aisin. Then went back the next day and told them to add the Aisin. We finalized on the trades, and when I got the ordered confirmed, Ram had offered another $1,000 rebate. Sweet.
I prefer GM products but I'm not nuts about it. I've had them all. Seems now we will have an "all MOPAR" garage...wife's Jeep GC and the Ram. Maybe in my old age it will help that the controls are very similar.
I downloaded the Ram manuals and was surprised that they recommended to "load-up" the Cummins from the get-go. No break-in. Said it breaks in better if loaded.
I was worried if it came in right before the Chili Bowl midget races I may not have time to break it in easy. No worries now! Bring it on!

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