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Old 12-27-2022, 05:47 PM   #1
Brantlyj
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Question truck selection dilemma

I'm having a hard time deciding what to do about a truck.

long story to properly explain my dilemma.

I currently have the truck in my signature. It has 160,000 miles, burns a qt or so of oil every 5000 miles and the payload is roughly 2800 lbs.

I just bought an Arcadia 3940LT. Dry weight is 12,800 lbs and gross of 14,000. I don't have it yet so I don't know actual weight yet.

I'm either at or slightly over my payload. I'd probably keep the truck however we are going to Alaska in 2024. I'd really prefer to have a 1 ton.

I would go diesel however the truck hardly gets used. It's my personal truck but it is also used at our business. It used to be my daily until my wife passed away but since she did I have just been using her van as I have 3 kids and frankly the van is more convenient. So, since May I have put on less than 5000 miles. And when it does get used it's to go across the street to pick up product from our supplier. Literally 1500 ft each way. These short run times will kill a modern diesel with the current EPA garbage unless I purposely take it for a long drive on a regular basis. I really don't have time to just go waste diesel.

So I'm thinking gas. The new 7.3 from Ford. I don't want new. My dad seem to have a problem backing a 6-8 ft wide truck through a 12 ft wide garage door and has broken the right mirror and bent the left side of the bumper from hitting the frame.
I'd go used but apparently people are dumb enough to pay 10K over original msrp for 1-2 y/o trucks with 50,000 miles.

My current consideration is to buy a diesel next spring. Use it for the Alaska trip and then sell it afterwards.
I was also thinking about a 2011-2018 diesel and deleting the EPA garbage.
Also hoping the market corrects itself on used trucks this summer or next winter.
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Old 12-27-2022, 06:15 PM   #2
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I used to want a diesel until the EPA ruined them and the price of diesel got way to high. I've just decided that I will make a gas motor work and size the TT to work with it until something changes, but I don't see the EPA fixing their mess.

Because of the stupid used market, as you mentioned, I can only see buying new, since used is too close to the new price and something new has a new warranty.

my .02,
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Old 12-27-2022, 07:09 PM   #3
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I just purchased a 2022 F350 DRW diesel. I’ve been shopping for six months. I had considered RAM, GM and Ford. I looked at ordering, I looked at new, I looked at less than three years old and I looked at 3 to 5 years old.

The medium truck market is a mess right now. In my 40 years of working in the franchised automotive industry, I have never seen anything like this. Supply is very limited and demand is strong. Between the commercial buyers (construction, Municipal government and the like) as well as the strong private buyers, demand remains robust.

Used values are at an all time high. “Local Market adjustments” (dealer add on margin) for new are ridiculous. I don’t believe it will get any better in 2023 and we may see relief in 2024 but that remains to be seen.

Prices are not going to go down. The increases will simply slow down.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy used right now. I think the “value proposition” on used ( 1 to 5 years old) is non existent.

I wouldn’t order a new one, unless you can wait indefinitely for delivery. No one can tell you any type of reasonable expectation for when you will actually receive an ordered vehicle. Ford buyers have had Super Duty on order for 12+ months and are now just receiving their 2022. Some who ordered 2022 are being pushed over to 2023.

There are dealers out there that are not gouging their customers. I found one and bought new at MSRP. I have NEVER in my life paid MSRP for a vehicle, until now. I refuse to pay over MSRP.

If you have any thought that you will be selling this truck at some point in time, I would suggest looking at the residual value difference between gas and diesel. There is Avery real difference in resale value

Good luck!
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Old 12-27-2022, 08:09 PM   #4
Brantlyj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJS3791RD View Post
I just purchased a 2022 F350 DRW diesel. I’ve been shopping for six months. I had considered RAM, GM and Ford. I looked at ordering, I looked at new, I looked at less than three years old and I looked at 3 to 5 years old.

The medium truck market is a mess right now. In my 40 years of working in the franchised automotive industry, I have never seen anything like this. Supply is very limited and demand is strong. Between the commercial buyers (construction, Municipal government and the like) as well as the strong private buyers, demand remains robust.

Used values are at an all time high. “Local Market adjustments” (dealer add on margin) for new are ridiculous. I don’t believe it will get any better in 2023 and we may see relief in 2024 but that remains to be seen.

Prices are not going to go down. The increases will simply slow down.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy used right now. I think the “value proposition” on used ( 1 to 5 years old) is non existent.

I wouldn’t order a new one, unless you can wait indefinitely for delivery. No one can tell you any type of reasonable expectation for when you will actually receive an ordered vehicle. Ford buyers have had Super Duty on order for 12+ months and are now just receiving their 2022. Some who ordered 2022 are being pushed over to 2023.

There are dealers out there that are not gouging their customers. I found one and bought new at MSRP. I have NEVER in my life paid MSRP for a vehicle, until now. I refuse to pay over MSRP.

If you have any thought that you will be selling this truck at some point in time, I would suggest looking at the residual value difference between gas and diesel. There is Avery real difference in resale value

Good luck!
who did you buy from?
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Old 12-27-2022, 08:22 PM   #5
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I sent you a PM. I’m not sure if it is appropriate to post that in an open forum.
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Old 12-27-2022, 10:09 PM   #6
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You might reconsider the 5er your looking at, not sure how Keystone feels good about building a near 40’ 5er with only a 1,400# payload!
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Old 12-28-2022, 04:23 AM   #7
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What Russ said ^^^^. With you and three kids you'll shoot past that 1400 pounds in the middle of your second year of ownership. And WAY past it when you leave to go to Alaska. And yes, I do know from experience.
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Old 12-28-2022, 05:00 AM   #8
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What Russ said ^^^^. With you and three kids you'll shoot past that 1400 pounds in the middle of your second year of ownership. And WAY past it when you leave to go to Alaska. And yes, I do know from experience.
If the OP starts out full timing, she will be past the 1,400# day one! when you start looking at cloths, cooking utensils, and just general needs.
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Old 12-28-2022, 05:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
If the OP starts out full timing, she will be past the 1,400# day one! when you start looking at cloths, cooking utensils, and just general needs.
I am confused. Brant (OP) is a guy with three kids. He has an F250 gasser with payload of 2800 lbs. The Arcadia he is looking at will have more pin weight than his payload. He seems to be struggling regarding gas/diesel. Where is the 1400 lbs coming from?
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Old 12-28-2022, 05:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
I am confused. Brant (OP) is a guy with three kids. He has an F250 gasser with payload of 2800 lbs. The Arcadia he is looking at will have more pin weight than his payload. He seems to be struggling regarding gas/diesel. Where is the 1400 lbs coming from?
Sorry confused two different post. The OP has two issues low payload on both the TV and 5er.
The F350 7.3 would likely have enough payload, but better look at a different 5er.
I have read the Ford 7.3 is a strong gas engine, but I would not want to go much larger than 14K 5er with it.
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Old 12-28-2022, 05:50 AM   #11
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He mentioned removing EPA related stuff on a possible diesel. His town is Des Moines. Do they smog test in that area? If he does a delete, he will likely have a hard time finding a tuner to remove the CEL from his dash as the gubbermint has come down on the companies selling those type tuners.

I have seen the discussion on 7.3L and heavy campers; the one he bought is 14K lbs gross so not really sure where that stands but I would be concerned about that kind of weight with any gas engine. I know 40' offers a lot of room for kids but could consider a smaller 5th wheel to reduce gross weight if it were me. But then he has already ordered the Arcadia so who knows?
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Old 12-28-2022, 07:51 AM   #12
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Arcadia 3640LT ?????

I know Keystone changes RV floorplans with little or no notice and often just deletes previous models from their website "with no hint they ever existed", but I simply can't find any mention of that floorplan/model Arcadia anywhere, not even with a Google search. The closest I can find is a 3940LT.

OP, please confirm which model trailer you've recently purchased.

Thanks
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Old 12-28-2022, 08:08 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Arcadia 3640LT ?????

I know Keystone changes RV floorplans with little or no notice and often just deletes previous models from their website "with no hint they ever existed", but I simply can't find any mention of that floorplan/model Arcadia anywhere, not even with a Google search. The closest I can find is a 3940LT.

OP, please confirm which model trailer you've recently purchased.

Thanks
your right I mistyped. It is a 3940LT. I will update my OP. Which is discontinued, but they rebadged it as a 3570LT for 2023. And per the numbers on the website went on a diet and lost 500 lbs. no info online yet, would be interested on where they trimmed that much weight
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Old 12-28-2022, 08:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
He mentioned removing EPA related stuff on a possible diesel. His town is Des Moines. Do they smog test in that area? If he does a delete, he will likely have a hard time finding a tuner to remove the CEL from his dash as the gubbermint has come down on the companies selling those type tuners.

I have seen the discussion on 7.3L and heavy campers; the one he bought is 14K lbs gross so not really sure where that stands but I would be concerned about that kind of weight with any gas engine. I know 40' offers a lot of room for kids but could consider a smaller 5th wheel to reduce gross weight if it were me. But then he has already ordered the Arcadia so who knows?
no smog check in Iowa. Looking online there are tons of companies that are selling delete kits compete with tuners.

I'm only considering the delete for longevity of the motor if I do go diesel. I would have zero problems going with a diesel but as mentioned I'm worried about the low usage would not be good for it. I guess I could make it my daily again.
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Old 12-28-2022, 08:19 AM   #15
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What Russ said ^^^^. With you and three kids you'll shoot past that 1400 pounds in the middle of your second year of ownership. And WAY past it when you leave to go to Alaska. And yes, I do know from experience.
I understand the concern. I had them as well. However with three kids this is really a perfect floor plan.

I've weighed my current trailer loaded for a standard long weekend and I only have about 500 lbs of stuff. If I pack the bikes inside the trailer I'm up to about 600.

I will never full time as someone else as someone else mentioned. At least not until the kids are grown and gone.

I will most definitely be heavy going to Alaska as I'll pack for every contingency. But if I have payload in the truck I can put stuff in the bed as well.
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Old 12-28-2022, 08:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
He mentioned removing EPA related stuff on a possible diesel. His town is Des Moines. Do they smog test in that area? If he does a delete, he will likely have a hard time finding a tuner to remove the CEL from his dash as the gubbermint has come down on the companies selling those type tuners.

I have seen the discussion on 7.3L and heavy campers; the one he bought is 14K lbs gross so not really sure where that stands but I would be concerned about that kind of weight with any gas engine. I know 40' offers a lot of room for kids but could consider a smaller 5th wheel to reduce gross weight if it were me. But then he has already ordered the Arcadia so who knows?
the dilemma is do I HAVE to have a diesel as a weekend warrior, aside for the one, once in a time time trip. the 7.3 with a 4.10 rear end should be adaquit.

@sourdough has been running a similar weight with a gas engine for several years and he seems to be happy with it and I'm guessing he's camping more than me.

I have a customer with a 2016 F350, king ranch, long box with only 60,000 miles, all highway miles. Diesel of course. He mentioned maybe selling it this winter. I wish he would decide. I'd grab that in a heartbeat....
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Old 12-28-2022, 09:47 AM   #17
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the dilemma is do I HAVE to have a diesel as a weekend warrior, aside for the one, once in a time time trip. the 7.3 with a 4.10 rear end should be adaquit.

@sourdough has been running a similar weight with a gas engine for several years and he seems to be happy with it and I'm guessing he's camping more than me.

I have a customer with a 2016 F350, king ranch, long box with only 60,000 miles, all highway miles. Diesel of course. He mentioned maybe selling it this winter. I wish he would decide. I'd grab that in a heartbeat....

Brant I am very happy with my combo. The caveat is I haven't make an Alaskan trip with it. I have ran in the Rockies and although it can rev a little bit it's nothing disconcerting or to worry about. Just some thoughts on your situation to ponder;

I don't know that I'd let a once in a lifetime trip, not to be repeated, dictate the truck I would own for years to come doing other less strenuous jobs. It would have to be able to do the job though. I think that the Ford 7.3 you mentioned or the Ram 6.4, with the appropriate drivetrains (4.10s/4.30s) coupled with the newer many speed transmissions would work and then the ongoing requirements of a diesel would not be an issue. I don't mention the GM gas trucks as the last I remember they only come with a 6 speed (HD trucks) and 3.73 which eliminates any benefit the slightly higher torque would bring and the lack of gears and low (numerically) rear end will really hamper performance in mountains.

I would also be leery of buying a used truck if they try to sell it with the outlandish premiums they are placing on used trucks I see. I was looking at a used truck back in TX and I could order a similar new truck for about 2k more (msrp - Ram). I just couldn't get a used vehicle with that kind of price stuck on it.

A final thought to muddy the water remembering I've not taken the trip to Alaska. My close friend did go to Alaska pulling his 5th wheel several years back (I'm thinking 15 years ago?). He had a new (at the time) GM 1 ton with the diesel of the time and a manual transmission. He told me tales of trying to climb those mountain grades and barely getting up them then flying down the back side. I'm positive that diesel didn't put out near the power they do now but to me it's more of a provoking thought about using a gas engine. If it were me I wouldn't hesitate taking my rig even if it struggled a bit but that's just me.

Lastly is the 1200 lb. payload of that new trailer - that's not much. A trip to Alaska will take all of that and more so plan wisely. You can use the bed of the truck but remember you will have a 5th wheel hitch in there that takes up space and then the trailer over the bed, and swing of the pin, limits what can be placed behind the hitch. The hitch, depending on what you get, can reduce payload by almost 300lbs. also.

Lots of things to think about and weigh. The trip should be fantastically fun so you don't want to ruin it with a mismatched rig - especially with kids. Good luck on the choice and the planning....which is half the fun!
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Old 12-28-2022, 11:01 AM   #18
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no smog check in Iowa. Looking online there are tons of companies that are selling delete kits compete with tuners.

I'm only considering the delete for longevity of the motor if I do go diesel. I would have zero problems going with a diesel but as mentioned I'm worried about the low usage would not be good for it. I guess I could make it my daily again.
My 2006 doesn't use DEF and has been deleted. Previous owner attempted a delete and just removed the valve; constant CEL; I did it right and bought a tuner that allows the CEL to be removed. At that time, the main tuner manufacturers were stopping building that would accommodate a delete but a quick google search shows new companies are popping up with all the stuff needed. I also did a coolant filter as well.
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Old 01-01-2023, 08:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Brantlyj View Post
no smog check in Iowa. Looking online there are tons of companies that are selling delete kits compete with tuners.

I'm only considering the delete for longevity of the motor if I do go diesel. I would have zero problems going with a diesel but as mentioned I'm worried about the low usage would not be good for it. I guess I could make it my daily again.
Start it up and let it get warm enough, get the operating temperature, and you'll never have a problem. Add some "Diesel Kleen" to each tank load, and you'll stay clean and efficient.
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Old 01-01-2023, 10:07 AM   #20
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Guess I don't understand the problem with DEF?
Had a '13 Duramax that used the DEF towed with it for 6+ years & traded it in 2019 w/ 140k miles, the only DEF issue was a recall on the tank & pump, but the truck never missed a beat due to that issue or any other DEF problem. It had loads of power & torque, got 17-18 mpg solo & 10.5-11.5 mpg towing a 16.5k 5th wheel for about 60% of those miles.
The advantage of the DEF & its intended purpose was no stinking diesel exhaust smell, no choking black smoke like the '05 before that.
I'm not sure spending the $$ to delete one is worth it in fuel mileage or power/torque if it's gonna roll coal every time you mash the right pedal or the stink while idling to warm up.
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