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Old 06-14-2021, 05:59 AM   #1
dalamarjj78
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Tow Vehicle Question

I currently pull a 2021 Keystone Bullet 273BHS (overall length of 32 ft) with a F-150 XLT (5L V8) and, while our weights are good, the overall towing experience isn't great, especially on windy days. We recently upgraded our WDH to an equalizer which helped a lot but I've come to accept the fact that we need more truck.

We've had to stick with camping at nearby campgrounds where we can easily access them without having to drive on the interstate since there's too much tail wag in wide open spaces and when big rigs pass us.

I've been using the "Build and Price" features on the various major car manufacturer's websites and am leaning towards a 2021 Ford F-350 XLT SRW and upgrading to the 7.3L V-8 engine.

But I a few questions I was hoping to get some input on as I haven't owned a truck very long.

1. Wheelbase - the short bed pickup has a wheelbase of 160" while the long bed is 176". I read that the first 110" of wheelbase covers a 20' trailer and every 4" of wheelbase beyond that adds another foot to the trailer. So based on those general guidelines 160" would cover a 32.5 ft trailer. While the long bed would cover a 34 ft trailer.

While the price between the two is similar, I really don't like the look of the long bed trucks. So would the short bed still be enough to handle the length of our trailer? The last thing I want to happen is to invest this much money in a truck and find out it still doesn't handle the length of our trailer much better than the F150 we have now (which has a wheelbase of 145").

2. Rear Axle Ratios - the standard rear axle ratio is 3.73. Would it be worth upgrading to the 4.30 or is 3.73 enough? Any pros and cons that should be worth keeping in mind?

3. F-350 - is there anything else I should be aware of regarding F-350's in general or Ford's 7.3L V-8 engines? I don't buy into the whole Ford vs Chevy vs Ram conversation; I just want the best truck for my money that can safely tow my trailer while keeping my family (and others around us) safe.

I assume that upgrading from an F-150 to a F-350 will result in a massive improvement when towing our trailer. I just want to cover all our bases and avoid an, "Oh crap" moment from finding out we went with the wrong configuration and having it be too late to correct it.

Thanks!
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalamarjj78 View Post
I currently pull a 2021 Keystone Bullet 273BHS (overall length of 32 ft) with a F-150 XLT (5L V8) and, while our weights are good, the overall towing experience isn't great, especially on windy days. We recently upgraded our WDH to an equalizer which helped a lot but I've come to accept the fact that we need more truck.

We've had to stick with camping at nearby campgrounds where we can easily access them without having to drive on the interstate since there's too much tail wag in wide open spaces and when big rigs pass us.

I've been using the "Build and Price" features on the various major car manufacturer's websites and am leaning towards a 2021 Ford F-350 XLT SRW and upgrading to the 7.3L V-8 engine.

But I a few questions I was hoping to get some input on as I haven't owned a truck very long.

1. Wheelbase - the short bed pickup has a wheelbase of 160" while the long bed is 176". I read that the first 110" of wheelbase covers a 20' trailer and every 4" of wheelbase beyond that adds another foot to the trailer. So based on those general guidelines 160" would cover a 32.5 ft trailer. While the long bed would cover a 34 ft trailer.

While the price between the two is similar, I really don't like the look of the long bed trucks. So would the short bed still be enough to handle the length of our trailer? The last thing I want to happen is to invest this much money in a truck and find out it still doesn't handle the length of our trailer much better than the F150 we have now (which has a wheelbase of 145").

2. Rear Axle Ratios - the standard rear axle ratio is 3.73. Would it be worth upgrading to the 4.30 or is 3.73 enough? Any pros and cons that should be worth keeping in mind?

3. F-350 - is there anything else I should be aware of regarding F-350's in general or Ford's 7.3L V-8 engines? I don't buy into the whole Ford vs Chevy vs Ram conversation; I just want the best truck for my money that can safely tow my trailer while keeping my family (and others around us) safe.

I assume that upgrading from an F-150 to a F-350 will result in a massive improvement when towing our trailer. I just want to cover all our bases and avoid an, "Oh crap" moment from finding out we went with the wrong configuration and having it be too late to correct it.

Thanks!
I was in the same situation as you. 33' trailer, 9500 lb GVWR and purchased a 1/2 ton max tow F150 with 1873 lbs of payload to tow it with. A year ago we upgraded to a 2019 F350, SRW, 6.75' bed (160" wb), 4.30 gears, but with the then only gas option 6.2 liter.

1. I think the 160" wb will suit you just fine, but keep in mind I have never owned a longbed. I would guess it depends on how large a trailer you will ultimately end up with should you decided to upgrade....although plenty of people tow even 5'vers with the 6.75 'shortbed' 1-ton. I can't believe you'd have much of a difference in stability with any travel trailer between the short and long.

2. I found my truck on the lot - a special order that was never picked up - and it happened to be ordered with 4.30s. It's my understanding that the 4.30s will get a heavy load going easier as the shift points are different. Don't know how much better than 3.73s - especially with something under 10k.

3. The F350 - with any engine will pull your TT with ease. Gas mileage is going to be a lot different than the F150...lol. We get about 12.5 mpg when not towing, and anywhere from 7-9 when towing, depending on terrain, wind etc. Also, ensure you look at the payload door sticker if you happen to find a candidate on the lot, some are ordered with the payload derate 'option', which lowers the truck's GVWR (and hence payload), likely to avoid potential higher registration costs at the local DMV. If ordering, ensure you don't add this option.
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:27 AM   #3
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Couple thoughts... don't get mired in "paralysis by analysis". There have been members who went through this and every detail of buying a truck required so much attention to detail that they got lost in the detail. The F350 of any wheelbase is fine for a 32' trailer. The 8 ft bed gives you more room in the bed. I would also say that the 7.3L is a first year engine with no history to speak of. What folks will be saying about it 5 years from now would be helpful but you don't have that crystal ball so know that most first year engines have some teething issues. My sister & BIL have a Class C with that engine and it ran impressively from Tenn. to TX where they are moving. They did have a CEL come on during the trip that had to do with some safety system I really didn't understand. It went away and never reappeared. Last, the lower the level of the truck the better payload you will have. Diesels, 4x4, King Ranch, Platinum etc are all payload eaters. Decide how you will use the truck and if the frills are something you need, go for it and if not, the XL model will give you the best payload and no more muddy carpets.
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:41 AM   #4
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This is a classic situation. A 1/2 ton truck is a light duty truck. 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are heavy duty. The towing experience between the 2 platforms is very different. The current experience of "the tail wagging the dog" will mostly disappear with a heavy duty truck...gas or diesel. You will still need sway control but the larger truck will better manage the trailer.

I'm a diesel guy all the way. To me the benefits out-weigh any cost or payload differences. Gas can't compete with the simple low-rev torque of the diesel. Long uphills just feel more effortless. Fuel mileage is also better. I get 11-12 mpg towing and up to 20 empty. YMMV...literally
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markcee View Post
I was in the same situation as you. 33' trailer, 9500 lb GVWR and purchased a 1/2 ton max tow F150 with 1873 lbs of payload to tow it with. A year ago we upgraded to a 2019 F350, SRW, 6.75' bed (160" wb), 4.30 gears, but with the then only gas option 6.2 liter.

1. I think the 160" wb will suit you just fine, but keep in mind I have never owned a longbed. I would guess it depends on how large a trailer you will ultimately end up with should you decided to upgrade....although plenty of people tow even 5'vers with the 6.75 'shortbed' 1-ton. I can't believe you'd have much of a difference in stability with any travel trailer between the short and long.

2. I found my truck on the lot - a special order that was never picked up - and it happened to be ordered with 4.30s. It's my understanding that the 4.30s will get a heavy load going easier as the shift points are different. Don't know how much better than 3.73s - especially with something under 10k.

3. The F350 - with any engine will pull your TT with ease. Gas mileage is going to be a lot different than the F150...lol. We get about 12.5 mpg when not towing, and anywhere from 7-9 when towing, depending on terrain, wind etc. Also, ensure you look at the payload door sticker if you happen to find a candidate on the lot, some are ordered with the payload derate 'option', which lowers the truck's GVWR (and hence payload), likely to avoid potential higher registration costs at the local DMV. If ordering, ensure you don't add this option.
Thanks for the input. The GVW of my trailer is under 10k lbs so it sounds like upgrading the rear axle ratio would be overkill. Also, I didn't realize there was an "option" to reduce payload - definitely not something I'd be interested in adding on.

There doesn't seem to be much inventory on local lots in my area. Most F-350's in my area have the pickup bed delete and have been converted to work trucks so I'm guessing I'll have to special order when I'm ready to buy. So I'll have to make sure that's not an option that's added on once the order is placed.

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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Couple thoughts... don't get mired in "paralysis by analysis". There have been members who went through this and every detail of buying a truck required so much attention to detail that they got lost in the detail. The F350 of any wheelbase is fine for a 32' trailer. The 8 ft bed gives you more room in the bed. I would also say that the 7.3L is a first year engine with no history to speak of. What folks will be saying about it 5 years from now would be helpful but you don't have that crystal ball so know that most first year engines have some teething issues. My sister & BIL have a Class C with that engine and it ran impressively from Tenn. to TX where they are moving. They did have a CEL come on during the trip that had to do with some safety system I really didn't understand. It went away and never reappeared. Last, the lower the level of the truck the better payload you will have. Diesels, 4x4, King Ranch, Platinum etc are all payload eaters. Decide how you will use the truck and if the frills are something you need, go for it and if not, the XL model will give you the best payload and no more muddy carpets.
Very good points, thanks! I feel like I'm getting caught up in the details because when I bought my F-150 I didn't fully understand towing requirements for a TT and I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. I also didn't realize the 7.3L engines were so new so I'll revisit the idea of sticking with the standard 6.2L engine. I'll also revisit the XL trim instead of the XLT. While the XLT does have a few "bells and whistles" that would be nice (like blind spot monitoring) it's definitely something I can live without since payload is far more important. As long as it has a backup camera (which my current F-150 doesn't have) then I'll be happy.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:25 AM   #6
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With a gas F350 and your current trailer, you won't have any payload issues. Consider that your current payload of around 1700 pounds will be doubled in almost any F350 regardless of the "upgrade packages added to the base XL".

Most gas powered F350's, even the Lariat or Platinum models, will have around 3000-3500 pound payload capacity.

The options on the XLT are "limited in weight" even if you order the XLT Premium Package or the XLT Value Package and 4 wheel drive. I'd urge you to go shopping, possibly not in your local area (based on your comment about all the "bed delete trucks".... Ford F350's are not "be careful or they might become F150's with too many options added to them" type vehicles....

I'd venture to suggest that even an F350 Ultimate or Limited with the 7.3L gas engine would do well towing a 32' trailer (with appropriate WD hitch with 4 point sway control). Where you get into the "pick and choose" situation is when you're trying to "tailor an order to a specific trailer that's going to put that truck on the verge of being too small." That becomes a concern when you're reaching the 15 K or 16 K fifth wheel RV's, not an "under 10K travel trailer"...

Do your "due diligence" but don't get too far "into the weeds with worry" until you've had an opportunity to walk around a "new truck lot" peeking at those yellow stickers and comparing trim levels and options on each of those trucks... While there is some "payload impact", few, if any, of the trim level packages will cause an F350 to be an "incapable tower of a 10K travel trailer"....
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:30 AM   #7
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When I was searching for a new TV, I searched the dealer inventories and used the VIN to look up the payload and other info from the RAM site. Never looked at Ford, but I would assume they have a similar site to lookup payload using the VIN. I learned a lot about the numbers looking up 2500 vs 3500 and the different trip packages.
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:54 AM   #8
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When I was searching for a new TV, I searched the dealer inventories and used the VIN to look up the payload and other info from the RAM site. Never looked at Ford, but I would assume they have a similar site to lookup payload using the VIN. I learned a lot about the numbers looking up 2500 vs 3500 and the different trip packages.
Nope, to my knowledge, RAM is the only manufacturer that has the "VIN lookup" available to the public.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:03 AM   #9
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With a gas F350 and your current trailer, you won't have any payload issues. Consider that your current payload of around 1700 pounds will be doubled in almost any F350 regardless of the "upgrade packages added to the base XL".

Most gas powered F350's, even the Lariat or Platinum models, will have around 3000-3500 pound payload capacity.

The options on the XLT are "limited in weight" even if you order the XLT Premium Package or the XLT Value Package and 4 wheel drive. I'd urge you to go shopping, possibly not in your local area (based on your comment about all the "bed delete trucks".... Ford F350's are not "be careful or they might become F150's with too many options added to them" type vehicles....

I'd venture to suggest that even an F350 Ultimate or Limited with the 7.3L gas engine would do well towing a 32' trailer (with appropriate WD hitch with 4 point sway control). Where you get into the "pick and choose" situation is when you're trying to "tailor an order to a specific trailer that's going to put that truck on the verge of being too small." That becomes a concern when you're reaching the 15 K or 16 K fifth wheel RV's, not an "under 10K travel trailer"...

Do your "due diligence" but don't get too far "into the weeds with worry" until you've had an opportunity to walk around a "new truck lot" peeking at those yellow stickers and comparing trim levels and options on each of those trucks... While there is some "payload impact", few, if any, of the trim level packages will cause an F350 to be an "incapable tower of a 10K travel trailer"....
I don't see us getting any higher trim than the XLT because, unfortunately, cost is still a factor and I can't invest $70k+ on a TV right now. But if I could land in the neighborhood of at least 3,000 lbs payload I'd be happy.

The wife and I also don't forsee upgrading to a larger trailer in the future, either. Once the kids are older and we don't need the bunk beds anymore we'd probably prefer to downgrade but...just because we say that now doesn't mean we'll feel the same way 10 years from now.

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Nope, to my knowledge, RAM is the only manufacturer that has the "VIN lookup" available to the public.
That stinks. That would have been an invaluable tool to help get an idea of payload capacities without having to find a dealership and walk the lot (which is probably why Ford doesn't put the info out there).
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:14 AM   #10
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Thanks for the input. The GVW of my trailer is under 10k lbs so it sounds like upgrading the rear axle ratio would be overkill. Also, I didn't realize there was an "option" to reduce payload - definitely not something I'd be interested in adding on.

There doesn't seem to be much inventory on local lots in my area. Most F-350's in my area have the pickup bed delete and have been converted to work trucks so I'm guessing I'll have to special order when I'm ready to buy. So I'll have to make sure that's not an option that's added on once the order is placed.



Very good points, thanks! I feel like I'm getting caught up in the details because when I bought my F-150 I didn't fully understand towing requirements for a TT and I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. I also didn't realize the 7.3L engines were so new so I'll revisit the idea of sticking with the standard 6.2L engine. I'll also revisit the XL trim instead of the XLT. While the XLT does have a few "bells and whistles" that would be nice (like blind spot monitoring) it's definitely something I can live without since payload is far more important. As long as it has a backup camera (which my current F-150 doesn't have) then I'll be happy.
I added an aftermarket stereo that has a big screen and a license plate camera. My current F350 is a couple feet longer than my last truck so backing into things was a concern. I also have a WIRED rear view camera on my camper going to a separate screen (dash mounted) so I can see tail gaters. I did add power door locks that work with a remote as I got sick of unlocking my passenger door then my door and when raining unlocking the rear doors for loading groceries. Otherwise didn't need power windows or any of the other stuff associated with higher trim levels. I only use my truck for dragging my 5th wheel and very occassionally for hauling and it isn't a daily driver which might add into the equation if selecting trim levels. I like bench seats!
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dalamarjj78 View Post
I don't see us getting any higher trim than the XLT because, unfortunately, cost is still a factor and I can't invest $70k+ on a TV right now. But if I could land in the neighborhood of at least 3,000 lbs payload I'd be happy.

The wife and I also don't forsee upgrading to a larger trailer in the future, either. Once the kids are older and we don't need the bunk beds anymore we'd probably prefer to downgrade but...just because we say that now doesn't mean we'll feel the same way 10 years from now.



That stinks. That would have been an invaluable tool to help get an idea of payload capacities without having to find a dealership and walk the lot (which is probably why Ford doesn't put the info out there).
I can't remember any current model trim level F350, even diesel trucks, with a payload less than 2700 pounds. The diesel adds about 800 pounds to the curb weight, so takes about 800 pounds directly out of the payload. The 7.3l gas engine is about 50 pounds lighter (yes, lighter) than the 6.2l gas engine, so you're looking at substantially greater than 3000 pound payloads with any "standard GVWR" F350.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:40 AM   #12
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JMO but as has been said, ANY 350 is more than capable of towing your existing RV; no matter the wheelbase, trim level, engine etc. The towing difference will make you just say "wow" simply because the HD trucks are meant to be a workhorse, the 1/2 tons are just a more specific duty SUV and sprung that way.

As far as the 7.3 and first year, I think there might be a glitch or 2 but highly doubt anything serious like a hopped up, twin turbo, super tricked out (read expensive "bolt ons") can present. I've owned a 5.7 since they came out (until this year) and the first year they did have an electronic glitch that was sporadic and irritating (I was on a long trip). A reflash and I was good to go and never had another problem. If I don't get a diesel next go round it is definitely in the running for me (of course it will be past the 1st year I figure).
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Old 06-14-2021, 10:12 AM   #13
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I can't remember any current model trim level F350, even diesel trucks, with a payload less than 2700 pounds. The diesel adds about 800 pounds to the curb weight, so takes about 800 pounds directly out of the payload. The 7.3l gas engine is about 50 pounds lighter (yes, lighter) than the 6.2l gas engine, so you're looking at substantially greater than 3000 pound payloads with any "standard GVWR" F350.

Just for reference my 2021 F350 SRW XLT CC FX4 Diesel has a GVWR of 11,500lbs and payload of 3,581lbs.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:10 AM   #14
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:55 AM   #15
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I currently pull a 2021 Keystone Bullet 273BHS (overall length of 32 ft) with a F-150 XLT (5L V8) and, while our weights are good, the overall towing experience isn't great, especially on windy days. We recently upgraded our WDH to an equalizer which helped a lot but I've come to accept the fact that we need more truck.

I have the exact same trailer. When we bought it, I owned a 2016 Ram 1500 ecodiesel with an Equalizer hitch setup. The #1 thing I would do is ensure that the hitch is setup correctly. We do have a 2020 Ram 2500 diesel now and all our long towing trips has been with that. But I've never experienced anything that sounds like this with either vehicle. I've checked just the other day and it looks like between October 2020 and mid-may 2021 we have traveled a little less than 7500 miles towing the trailer. The new truck will certainly be fine with this trailer. I think it is something like 5300-5500# dry.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:11 PM   #16
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I have the exact same trailer. When we bought it, I owned a 2016 Ram 1500 ecodiesel with an Equalizer hitch setup. The #1 thing I would do is ensure that the hitch is setup correctly. We do have a 2020 Ram 2500 diesel now and all our long towing trips has been with that. But I've never experienced anything that sounds like this with either vehicle. I've checked just the other day and it looks like between October 2020 and mid-may 2021 we have traveled a little less than 7500 miles towing the trailer. The new truck will certainly be fine with this trailer. I think it is something like 5300-5500# dry.
Prior setting up our Equalizer hitch I watched the install video at least a dozen times. I also made sure I followed the step-by-step instructions very closely and double and triple checked each step before moving on.

The measurements I took during the installation matched up with what it should have been in the table in the manual and the truck and trailer look level when connected.

I also make sure the hitch is greased in the appropriate points before each trip.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:25 PM   #17
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I also make sure the hitch is greased in the appropriate points before each trip.


I read an interesting debate about this a while back (lube vs no lube) The dealer told me NOT to lubricate, but after questioning this...it was don't lubricate until the paint is gone off the new hitch. I did start lubricating to minimize the noise with the equalizer lube. However, I believe the keypoint (not say this is the problem) is that there is some range of say 60-100ft pounds of torque that is needed at the hitch for each bar, below that and they don't do their job. You might want to check this before your next (short trip) to see if these need to be tightened.



Although I have not installed them, since I don't want to readjust everything I did buy some 'wear pads' for the L brackets.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:28 PM   #18
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I went back and found the equalizer tech response on the torque setting so that I was accurate in my response. You need at least 65 but you can go up to 90



65 ft lbs is enough to where the tension is being held by the sockets in the hitch head. Anything less than that will put undue tension and stress on the welds of the hitch head. 90 lbs of torque would essentially be giving you the same performance as if it were 65 ft lbs, but there is no issue with going up to 90 if that helps you feel more comfortable while towing.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:30 PM   #19
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Regarding that GVWR derate option…..I have it. My GVWR is 10k even, have the XLT package and my payload is still 3,271….so still plenty for a big TT.
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Old 06-14-2021, 12:34 PM   #20
dalamarjj78
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
I also make sure the hitch is greased in the appropriate points before each trip.


I read an interesting debate about this a while back (lube vs no lube) The dealer told me NOT to lubricate, but after questioning this...it was don't lubricate until the paint is gone off the new hitch. I did start lubricating to minimize the noise with the equalizer lube. However, I believe the keypoint (not say this is the problem) is that there is some range of say 60-100ft pounds of torque that is needed at the hitch for each bar, below that and they don't do their job. You might want to check this before your next (short trip) to see if these need to be tightened.



Although I have not installed them, since I don't want to readjust everything I did buy some 'wear pads' for the L brackets.
I lubed the hitch because I figured if the manufacturer says you should then it's probably a good idea. Not to mention I never lubed my previous hitch and it was starting to collect rust pretty bad. I also bought the pads for the L brackets to minimize noise and they seem to do a good job.

It's interesting that you mention the torque for where you insert the bars. When I was walking through the initial setup they were torqued down so much I couldn't get the bars to move at all despite how hard I pushed.

I called Equalizer customer support and they told me those were often over-torqued at the factory and said to loosen them up and re-torque between 60 - 70 ft lbs. So I split it evenly at 65 ft lbs.

The bars are still stiff when trying to push them inward to connect to the L brackets but maybe I should try torqueing them down a bit more to see if that helps.
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