Tow Vehicle Question

[dalamarjj78]

I currently pull a 2021 Keystone Bullet 273BHS (overall length of 32 ft) with a F-150 XLT (5L V8) and, while our weights are good, the overall towing experience isn't great, especially on windy days. We recently upgraded our WDH to an equalizer which helped a lot but I've come to accept the fact that we need more truck.

We've had to stick with camping at nearby campgrounds where we can easily access them without having to drive on the interstate since there's too much tail wag in wide open spaces and when big rigs pass us.

I've been using the "Build and Price" features on the various major car manufacturer's websites and am leaning towards a 2021 Ford F-350 XLT SRW and upgrading to the 7.3L V-8 engine.

But I a few questions I was hoping to get some input on as I haven't owned a truck very long.

1. Wheelbase - the short bed pickup has a wheelbase of 160" while the long bed is 176". I read that the first 110" of wheelbase covers a 20' trailer and every 4" of wheelbase beyond that adds another foot to the trailer. So based on those general guidelines 160" would cover a 32.5 ft trailer. While the long bed would cover a 34 ft trailer.

While the price between the two is similar, I really don't like the look of the long bed trucks. So would the short bed still be enough to handle the length of our trailer? The last thing I want to happen is to invest this much money in a truck and find out it still doesn't handle the length of our trailer much better than the F150 we have now (which has a wheelbase of 145").

2. Rear Axle Ratios - the standard rear axle ratio is 3.73. Would it be worth upgrading to the 4.30 or is 3.73 enough? Any pros and cons that should be worth keeping in mind?

3. F-350 - is there anything else I should be aware of regarding F-350's in general or Ford's 7.3L V-8 engines? I don't buy into the whole Ford vs Chevy vs Ram conversation; I just want the best truck for my money that can safely tow my trailer while keeping my family (and others around us) safe.

I assume that upgrading from an F-150 to a F-350 will result in a massive improvement when towing our trailer. I just want to cover all our bases and avoid an, "Oh crap" moment from finding out we went with the wrong configuration and having it be too late to correct it.

Thanks!

[markcee]

Originally Posted by dalamarjj78

I currently pull a 2021 Keystone Bullet 273BHS (overall length of 32 ft) with a F-150 XLT (5L V8) and, while our weights are good, the overall towing experience isn't great, especially on windy days. We recently upgraded our WDH to an equalizer which helped a lot but I've come to accept the fact that we need more truck.

We've had to stick with camping at nearby campgrounds where we can easily access them without having to drive on the interstate since there's too much tail wag in wide open spaces and when big rigs pass us.

I've been using the "Build and Price" features on the various major car manufacturer's websites and am leaning towards a 2021 Ford F-350 XLT SRW and upgrading to the 7.3L V-8 engine.

But I a few questions I was hoping to get some input on as I haven't owned a truck very long.

1. Wheelbase - the short bed pickup has a wheelbase of 160" while the long bed is 176". I read that the first 110" of wheelbase covers a 20' trailer and every 4" of wheelbase beyond that adds another foot to the trailer. So based on those general guidelines 160" would cover a 32.5 ft trailer. While the long bed would cover a 34 ft trailer.

While the price between the two is similar, I really don't like the look of the long bed trucks. So would the short bed still be enough to handle the length of our trailer? The last thing I want to happen is to invest this much money in a truck and find out it still doesn't handle the length of our trailer much better than the F150 we have now (which has a wheelbase of 145").

2. Rear Axle Ratios - the standard rear axle ratio is 3.73. Would it be worth upgrading to the 4.30 or is 3.73 enough? Any pros and cons that should be worth keeping in mind?

3. F-350 - is there anything else I should be aware of regarding F-350's in general or Ford's 7.3L V-8 engines? I don't buy into the whole Ford vs Chevy vs Ram conversation; I just want the best truck for my money that can safely tow my trailer while keeping my family (and others around us) safe.

I assume that upgrading from an F-150 to a F-350 will result in a massive improvement when towing our trailer. I just want to cover all our bases and avoid an, "Oh crap" moment from finding out we went with the wrong configuration and having it be too late to correct it.

Thanks!

I was in the same situation as you. 33' trailer, 9500 lb GVWR and purchased a 1/2 ton max tow F150 with 1873 lbs of payload to tow it with. A year ago we upgraded to a 2019 F350, SRW, 6.75' bed (160" wb), 4.30 gears, but with the then only gas option 6.2 liter.

1. I think the 160" wb will suit you just fine, but keep in mind I have never owned a longbed. I would guess it depends on how large a trailer you will ultimately end up with should you decided to upgrade....although plenty of people tow even 5'vers with the 6.75 'shortbed' 1-ton. I can't believe you'd have much of a difference in stability with any travel trailer between the short and long.

2. I found my truck on the lot - a special order that was never picked up - and it happened to be ordered with 4.30s. It's my understanding that the 4.30s will get a heavy load going easier as the shift points are different. Don't know how much better than 3.73s - especially with something under 10k.

3. The F350 - with any engine will pull your TT with ease. Gas mileage is going to be a lot different than the F150...lol. We get about 12.5 mpg when not towing, and anywhere from 7-9 when towing, depending on terrain, wind etc. Also, ensure you look at the payload door sticker if you happen to find a candidate on the lot, some are ordered with the payload derate 'option', which lowers the truck's GVWR (and hence payload), likely to avoid potential higher registration costs at the local DMV. If ordering, ensure you don't add this option.

[wiredgeorge]

Couple thoughts... don't get mired in "paralysis by analysis". There have been members who went through this and every detail of buying a truck required so much attention to detail that they got lost in the detail. The F350 of any wheelbase is fine for a 32' trailer. The 8 ft bed gives you more room in the bed. I would also say that the 7.3L is a first year engine with no history to speak of. What folks will be saying about it 5 years from now would be helpful but you don't have that crystal ball so know that most first year engines have some teething issues. My sister & BIL have a Class C with that engine and it ran impressively from Tenn. to TX where they are moving. They did have a CEL come on during the trip that had to do with some safety system I really didn't understand. It went away and never reappeared. Last, the lower the level of the truck the better payload you will have. Diesels, 4x4, King Ranch, Platinum etc are all payload eaters. Decide how you will use the truck and if the frills are something you need, go for it and if not, the XL model will give you the best payload and no more muddy carpets.

[dalamarjj78]

Originally Posted by markcee

I was in the same situation as you. 33' trailer, 9500 lb GVWR and purchased a 1/2 ton max tow F150 with 1873 lbs of payload to tow it with. A year ago we upgraded to a 2019 F350, SRW, 6.75' bed (160" wb), 4.30 gears, but with the then only gas option 6.2 liter.

1. I think the 160" wb will suit you just fine, but keep in mind I have never owned a longbed. I would guess it depends on how large a trailer you will ultimately end up with should you decided to upgrade....although plenty of people tow even 5'vers with the 6.75 'shortbed' 1-ton. I can't believe you'd have much of a difference in stability with any travel trailer between the short and long.

2. I found my truck on the lot - a special order that was never picked up - and it happened to be ordered with 4.30s. It's my understanding that the 4.30s will get a heavy load going easier as the shift points are different. Don't know how much better than 3.73s - especially with something under 10k.

3. The F350 - with any engine will pull your TT with ease. Gas mileage is going to be a lot different than the F150...lol. We get about 12.5 mpg when not towing, and anywhere from 7-9 when towing, depending on terrain, wind etc. Also, ensure you look at the payload door sticker if you happen to find a candidate on the lot, some are ordered with the payload derate 'option', which lowers the truck's GVWR (and hence payload), likely to avoid potential higher registration costs at the local DMV. If ordering, ensure you don't add this option.

Thanks for the input. The GVW of my trailer is under 10k lbs so it sounds like upgrading the rear axle ratio would be overkill. Also, I didn't realize there was an "option" to reduce payload - definitely not something I'd be interested in adding on.

There doesn't seem to be much inventory on local lots in my area. Most F-350's in my area have the pickup bed delete and have been converted to work trucks so I'm guessing I'll have to special order when I'm ready to buy. So I'll have to make sure that's not an option that's added on once the order is placed.

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Couple thoughts... don't get mired in "paralysis by analysis". There have been members who went through this and every detail of buying a truck required so much attention to detail that they got lost in the detail. The F350 of any wheelbase is fine for a 32' trailer. The 8 ft bed gives you more room in the bed. I would also say that the 7.3L is a first year engine with no history to speak of. What folks will be saying about it 5 years from now would be helpful but you don't have that crystal ball so know that most first year engines have some teething issues. My sister & BIL have a Class C with that engine and it ran impressively from Tenn. to TX where they are moving. They did have a CEL come on during the trip that had to do with some safety system I really didn't understand. It went away and never reappeared. Last, the lower the level of the truck the better payload you will have. Diesels, 4x4, King Ranch, Platinum etc are all payload eaters. Decide how you will use the truck and if the frills are something you need, go for it and if not, the XL model will give you the best payload and no more muddy carpets.

Very good points, thanks! I feel like I'm getting caught up in the details because when I bought my F-150 I didn't fully understand towing requirements for a TT and I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. I also didn't realize the 7.3L engines were so new so I'll revisit the idea of sticking with the standard 6.2L engine. I'll also revisit the XL trim instead of the XLT. While the XLT does have a few "bells and whistles" that would be nice (like blind spot monitoring) it's definitely something I can live without since payload is far more important. As long as it has a backup camera (which my current F-150 doesn't have) then I'll be happy.

[JRTJH]

With a gas F350 and your current trailer, you won't have any payload issues. Consider that your current payload of around 1700 pounds will be doubled in almost any F350 regardless of the "upgrade packages added to the base XL".

Most gas powered F350's, even the Lariat or Platinum models, will have around 3000-3500 pound payload capacity.

The options on the XLT are "limited in weight" even if you order the XLT Premium Package or the XLT Value Package and 4 wheel drive. I'd urge you to go shopping, possibly not in your local area (based on your comment about all the "bed delete trucks".... Ford F350's are not "be careful or they might become F150's with too many options added to them" type vehicles....

I'd venture to suggest that even an F350 Ultimate or Limited with the 7.3L gas engine would do well towing a 32' trailer (with appropriate WD hitch with 4 point sway control). Where you get into the "pick and choose" situation is when you're trying to "tailor an order to a specific trailer that's going to put that truck on the verge of being too small." That becomes a concern when you're reaching the 15 K or 16 K fifth wheel RV's, not an "under 10K travel trailer"...

Do your "due diligence" but don't get too far "into the weeds with worry" until you've had an opportunity to walk around a "new truck lot" peeking at those yellow stickers and comparing trim levels and options on each of those trucks... While there is some "payload impact", few, if any, of the trim level packages will cause an F350 to be an "incapable tower of a 10K travel trailer"....

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by dalamarjj78

Thanks for the input. The GVW of my trailer is under 10k lbs so it sounds like upgrading the rear axle ratio would be overkill. Also, I didn't realize there was an "option" to reduce payload - definitely not something I'd be interested in adding on.

There doesn't seem to be much inventory on local lots in my area. Most F-350's in my area have the pickup bed delete and have been converted to work trucks so I'm guessing I'll have to special order when I'm ready to buy. So I'll have to make sure that's not an option that's added on once the order is placed.



Very good points, thanks! I feel like I'm getting caught up in the details because when I bought my F-150 I didn't fully understand towing requirements for a TT and I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. I also didn't realize the 7.3L engines were so new so I'll revisit the idea of sticking with the standard 6.2L engine. I'll also revisit the XL trim instead of the XLT. While the XLT does have a few "bells and whistles" that would be nice (like blind spot monitoring) it's definitely something I can live without since payload is far more important. As long as it has a backup camera (which my current F-150 doesn't have) then I'll be happy.

I added an aftermarket stereo that has a big screen and a license plate camera. My current F350 is a couple feet longer than my last truck so backing into things was a concern. I also have a WIRED rear view camera on my camper going to a separate screen (dash mounted) so I can see tail gaters. I did add power door locks that work with a remote as I got sick of unlocking my passenger door then my door and when raining unlocking the rear doors for loading groceries. Otherwise didn't need power windows or any of the other stuff associated with higher trim levels. I only use my truck for dragging my 5th wheel and very occassionally for hauling and it isn't a daily driver which might add into the equation if selecting trim levels. I like bench seats!

[jsb5717]

This is a classic situation. A 1/2 ton truck is a light duty truck. 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are heavy duty. The towing experience between the 2 platforms is very different. The current experience of "the tail wagging the dog" will mostly disappear with a heavy duty truck...gas or diesel. You will still need sway control but the larger truck will better manage the trailer.

I'm a diesel guy all the way. To me the benefits out-weigh any cost or payload differences. Gas can't compete with the simple low-rev torque of the diesel. Long uphills just feel more effortless. Fuel mileage is also better. I get 11-12 mpg towing and up to 20 empty. YMMV...literally

[JDDilly]

When I was searching for a new TV, I searched the dealer inventories and used the VIN to look up the payload and other info from the RAM site. Never looked at Ford, but I would assume they have a similar site to lookup payload using the VIN. I learned a lot about the numbers looking up 2500 vs 3500 and the different trip packages.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by JDDilly

When I was searching for a new TV, I searched the dealer inventories and used the VIN to look up the payload and other info from the RAM site. Never looked at Ford, but I would assume they have a similar site to lookup payload using the VIN. I learned a lot about the numbers looking up 2500 vs 3500 and the different trip packages.

Nope, to my knowledge, RAM is the only manufacturer that has the "VIN lookup" available to the public.

[dalamarjj78]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

With a gas F350 and your current trailer, you won't have any payload issues. Consider that your current payload of around 1700 pounds will be doubled in almost any F350 regardless of the "upgrade packages added to the base XL".

Most gas powered F350's, even the Lariat or Platinum models, will have around 3000-3500 pound payload capacity.

The options on the XLT are "limited in weight" even if you order the XLT Premium Package or the XLT Value Package and 4 wheel drive. I'd urge you to go shopping, possibly not in your local area (based on your comment about all the "bed delete trucks".... Ford F350's are not "be careful or they might become F150's with too many options added to them" type vehicles....

I'd venture to suggest that even an F350 Ultimate or Limited with the 7.3L gas engine would do well towing a 32' trailer (with appropriate WD hitch with 4 point sway control). Where you get into the "pick and choose" situation is when you're trying to "tailor an order to a specific trailer that's going to put that truck on the verge of being too small." That becomes a concern when you're reaching the 15 K or 16 K fifth wheel RV's, not an "under 10K travel trailer"...

Do your "due diligence" but don't get too far "into the weeds with worry" until you've had an opportunity to walk around a "new truck lot" peeking at those yellow stickers and comparing trim levels and options on each of those trucks... While there is some "payload impact", few, if any, of the trim level packages will cause an F350 to be an "incapable tower of a 10K travel trailer"....

I don't see us getting any higher trim than the XLT because, unfortunately, cost is still a factor and I can't invest $70k+ on a TV right now. But if I could land in the neighborhood of at least 3,000 lbs payload I'd be happy.

The wife and I also don't forsee upgrading to a larger trailer in the future, either. Once the kids are older and we don't need the bunk beds anymore we'd probably prefer to downgrade but...just because we say that now doesn't mean we'll feel the same way 10 years from now.

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Nope, to my knowledge, RAM is the only manufacturer that has the "VIN lookup" available to the public.

That stinks. That would have been an invaluable tool to help get an idea of payload capacities without having to find a dealership and walk the lot (which is probably why Ford doesn't put the info out there).

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by dalamarjj78

I don't see us getting any higher trim than the XLT because, unfortunately, cost is still a factor and I can't invest $70k+ on a TV right now. But if I could land in the neighborhood of at least 3,000 lbs payload I'd be happy.

The wife and I also don't forsee upgrading to a larger trailer in the future, either. Once the kids are older and we don't need the bunk beds anymore we'd probably prefer to downgrade but...just because we say that now doesn't mean we'll feel the same way 10 years from now.



That stinks. That would have been an invaluable tool to help get an idea of payload capacities without having to find a dealership and walk the lot (which is probably why Ford doesn't put the info out there).

I can't remember any current model trim level F350, even diesel trucks, with a payload less than 2700 pounds. The diesel adds about 800 pounds to the curb weight, so takes about 800 pounds directly out of the payload. The 7.3l gas engine is about 50 pounds lighter (yes, lighter) than the 6.2l gas engine, so you're looking at substantially greater than 3000 pound payloads with any "standard GVWR" F350.

[8upbowhunter]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I can't remember any current model trim level F350, even diesel trucks, with a payload less than 2700 pounds. The diesel adds about 800 pounds to the curb weight, so takes about 800 pounds directly out of the payload. The 7.3l gas engine is about 50 pounds lighter (yes, lighter) than the 6.2l gas engine, so you're looking at substantially greater than 3000 pound payloads with any "standard GVWR" F350.

Just for reference my 2021 F350 SRW XLT CC FX4 Diesel has a GVWR of 11,500lbs and payload of 3,581lbs.

[kcotton69]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I can't remember any current model trim level F350, even diesel trucks, with a payload less than 2700 pounds. The diesel adds about 800 pounds to the curb weight, so takes about 800 pounds directly out of the payload. The 7.3l gas engine is about 50 pounds lighter (yes, lighter) than the 6.2l gas engine, so you're looking at substantially greater than 3000 pound payloads with any "standard GVWR" F350.

It should be WELL over 3000#, I've attached an image of my yellow sticker. I have a 2020 F350 Lariat crew cab SRW LWB FX4 with 6.7L diesel. My CCC is 4238#. GVWR on mine is 12400#

[sourdough]

JMO but as has been said, ANY 350 is more than capable of towing your existing RV; no matter the wheelbase, trim level, engine etc. The towing difference will make you just say "wow" simply because the HD trucks are meant to be a workhorse, the 1/2 tons are just a more specific duty SUV and sprung that way.

As far as the 7.3 and first year, I think there might be a glitch or 2 but highly doubt anything serious like a hopped up, twin turbo, super tricked out (read expensive "bolt ons") can present. I've owned a 5.7 since they came out (until this year) and the first year they did have an electronic glitch that was sporadic and irritating (I was on a long trip). A reflash and I was good to go and never had another problem. If I don't get a diesel next go round it is definitely in the running for me (of course it will be past the 1st year I figure).

[gearhead]

Check the gas tank capacity of the long bed vs. short bed. Also the option of a higher capacity tank.

[kcotton69]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Check the gas tank capacity of the long bed vs. short bed. Also the option of a higher capacity tank.

My long bed has a 48 gallon tank

[skmct]

I know the subject is about buying a new larger truck. I would just like to add some insight to your sway or waging issue. I towed a 24ft inclosed car trailer with a 1999 f150 and had the same issue. I
Upgraded to a 2001 chevy 1500 HD and the problem went away. The biggest difference between the chevy HD and the Ford was wheels and tires the chevy came with LT tires. LT tires have a much stiffer side wall. A tire upgrade might help you out until you find a new truck.

[dalamarjj78]

Originally Posted by skmct

I know the subject is about buying a new larger truck. I would just like to add some insight to your sway or waging issue. I towed a 24ft inclosed car trailer with a 1999 f150 and had the same issue. I
Upgraded to a 2001 chevy 1500 HD and the problem went away. The biggest difference between the chevy HD and the Ford was wheels and tires the chevy came with LT tires. LT tires have a much stiffer side wall. A tire upgrade might help you out until you find a new truck.

Thanks but one of the first upgrades I did after getting the truck was replacing the tires with a set of Michelin Defenders.

While I can't find the original window sticker for our truck (we bought it used) I assume the real issue is that it doesn't have the max tow package. I'm assuming this because the rear axle ratio is 3.31, it doesn't have tow mirrors or an integrated trailer brake controller.

[Camp CA]

Originally Posted by dalamarjj78

.......
1. Wheelbase
2. Rear Axle Ratios - the standard rear axle ratio is 3.73. Would it be worth upgrading to the 4.30 or is 3.73 enough? Any pros and cons that should be worth keeping in mind?
3. F-350 - is there anything else I should be aware of regarding F-350's in general or Ford's 7.3L V-8 engines? ..........I assume that upgrading from an F-150 to a F-350 will result in a massive improvement when towing our trailer............

1. I towed for 17.5 years with a short bed F-250........big upgrade from my Ford Bronco and Expedition. But I like my current F350 long bed truck better.
2. My F350 has a 3.73 and is fine for towing my 16,600 lb GWVR trailer. A 4.30 ratio will give you better low end acceleration but also lower gas mileage. A 3.73 ratio will still provide decent acceleration but will also provide better mileage plus give you a higher top end speed.
3. I recommend the 6.7 l diesel engine....higher mileage, more torque for uphill and has an exhaust brake for down grades. Upgrading from an F-150 to a F-350 WILL result in a massive improvement when towing any trailer.

[Badbart56]

Long wheelbase is your friend when it comes to towing. It won't be affected by crosswinds or tractor trailers nearly as much as the short beds. They typically ride better too.

If you go with a gas engine get the 4.30 rear end. Gas mileage will be negligible.

The diesels make enough torque that gear ratio doesn't really matter and you'll get better fuel mileage towing or empty.