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Old 08-20-2020, 06:22 AM   #1
moodman
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5000 Watt inverter mod

I just bought a 12V to 5000W/120V inverter (AIMS). My intent is to give me some limited boondocking capability to my Montana HC (362RD) fifth wheel.

Currently, there is no 120V capability in my rig from the battery. The only thing I have is a 12V socket behind one TV, and I assume they put it there so that I could plug a small inverter in to run that TV from 12V.

But I have more ambition than that! What I would like is to wire up my 5000W inverter in such a way that whenever I boondock (rarely) I can use more of the outlets in my rig, like the microwave, all the other TVs, and a couple of other outlets.

So, what is my best approach? Ideally I would like it to be automatic so that whenever I am disconnected from shore power, the inverter takes over. The inverter itself is about the size of a breadbox.

No doubt this has been done many times, but I don't know how, so pointing me to helpful info would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-20-2020, 06:46 AM   #2
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You'll need a transfer switch to switch over from commercial power to your inverter. In essence, the inverter replaces the commercial power. With this size inverter and a load such as the microwave, you'll need some serious battery reserves. Think of the batteries as the "power company". With that, you'll also need a way to charge the battery system. Either a generator or solar or both.
Being able to camp without commercial power is a big plus for us.
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Old 08-20-2020, 07:41 AM   #3
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Inverters are still "in their infancy" in the RV world. Many people use small inverters to run the TV, the microwave (limited use) and in the past few years, inverters have been used with a dedicated battery/batteries to power a residential refrigerator during towing.

A 5000 watt inverter will, as stated, require some SERIOUS battery power. Essentially, you're looking at 12 volt wiring size (from the battery to the inverter) that's as large as the input wires from your utility pole to your 200 amp "downwires" at your house... You'll need 6 or 8 or 10 golf cart batteries to power such an inverter.... Thinking of the weight of that kind of battery bank, it would be "simpler and cheaper" to just buy a 4000 or 5000 watt generator. You'll need that generator to recharge the batteries anyway, because even 10 GC2 batteries won't provide enough "reserve power" to run your trailer's "shore power demands" for much more than a few hours.... And, with the inverter/battery bank, you can forget about air conditioner use. With a generator, as long as you have propane or gasoline, you can run the A/C.....

I'd suggest thinking this mod through a bit more before installing that kind of inverter without a significant battery bank and a means to recharge the batteries.

Otherwise, it's like having spent all your money on that Corvette and not having enough left over to afford a tank of gas so you can drive it.....
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Old 08-20-2020, 08:48 AM   #4
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I appreciate these comments very much. I was just thinking that if I installed this inverter, it would only "draw" the battery whenever I needed it. I am not thinking of using it for all my needs.
So, if it is just hooked up and only used when I must have 120V power, is it really going to need more batteries?
I have a very small inverter already connected to the 12V plug, and all it does is powers the TV it is next to. But since I am able to get this inverter very cheap, I just wanted to figure out if it is worth installing it somewhere in my RV.
On person posted that I need a transfer switch. In that case, are you saying that I should hook up the inverter to the transfer switch very near where I normally plug in my shore power?
Isn't there a simpler way of having dedicated circuits in my RV. They do this in hospitals and you see the red plugs where you can plug in case of power failures.
That was more what I was thinking..
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Old 08-20-2020, 09:05 AM   #5
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Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of wiring the "emergency power outlets" during construction like they probably did at the hospital. It would be a significant remodel to pick and choose the outlets to be wired to the inverter now that the trailer wiring is complete.
Not sure of your trailer type, 5th wheel, toy hauler or bumper tow. Also don't know what you'd want to power from the outlets besides the TV and possibly the MW. Can you give us a little more information including your current battery configuration so we can be a bit more helpful with some suggested options? This can be a real simple set up (like ours) to something much more sophisticated and expensive.

Sorry, I see you have a 40' fiver.
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Old 08-20-2020, 09:10 AM   #6
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Without going even deeper into this situation I can tell you that what John said is exactly true. He did not exaggerate, maybe even not making it sound as serious as it could become. I would implore you to google the semantics of your desired result, the math is relatively easy once you have all your demands listed, and look at the finances involved. You'll drop a grand in batteries alone by the time you buy copper to connect them. Add in the electronics for the auto-switch and pretty soon you've passed the price of two very nice generators.
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Old 08-20-2020, 09:28 AM   #7
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I'm no electrician nor do I anything about solar, but can do minor calculations on current draw. IMHO with only a couple batteries warming your dinner in the microwave for a couple minutes from the inverter would likely be it, then fire up the generator to charge back up.
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Old 08-20-2020, 09:48 AM   #8
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My previous employer sold Tiffen class A’s. They used a magnum 2000W charger/inverter to power all the outlets, 4 TV’s, microwave and residential refer. Those coaches had 400W of solar and 6 6V batteries.

The only transfer switch was for shore/gen power. I don’t know how long a coach would stay “powered”.
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Old 08-20-2020, 10:35 AM   #9
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Thanks. And this is why I thought 5000W would be more than enough. Simple calculation, but a 1200W microwave, on for a couple of minutes to heat food, would only be 10amps @ 120V. 10 amps drawn from a 500 amp battery still leaves lots of power. That doesn't sound like a lot and the 500W inverter would be more than enough reserve to not stress the system.

What am I missing?
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #10
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I think 5000 watts is over kill personally. I use an 1800 watt Xantrex Inverter/Charger with a built in transfer switch. I have bypassed the Converter and wired the Inverter/Charger in it's place. I can adjust the charging parameters when connected to shore power so it has minimal draw (as low as 2A) and the inverter never comes on (unless we lose power)

NOTE: I do use 2 (or sometimes 4) 6 volt Batteries. Wiring from the Batteries to the Inverter/Charger is 4 ft of 2/0 Gauge cabling, Battery interconnects are 4 Gauge wire.

My 1800 watt inverter can run the following (Not all at the same time though.):
TV along with various chargers etc,
Laptop Computer if using
Wife's blow dryer (a smaller one approx 1400 watt).
Toaster,
Water Kettle (if desired, but I usually heat water for tea or coffee on the stove)

It Can't run the following (I usually have the circuit breakers turned off for these when dry camping anyways):
Microwave (we seldom have need for that anyways but a 2000 watt would probably work fine)
Water Heater (it works better on Propane anyways, electric switch is usually off at the WH)
Air Conditioner (I have wheels and I move where I don't need AC if dry camping, If I can't avoid the heat my 2 generators will run the AC)
Absorption Refrigerator (It actually can run my absorption refer but that heating element drains the battery quickly, I make sure the switch is set to run on gas only as it has an affinity for electric)

Other than that all outlets are available as desired.

With 2 hrs or so of Television watching per night I can go 24-36 hrs on 2 batteries with out running the generator to recharge. With 4 Batteries I can watch a bit more TV and recharge every other day. Next step is solar to cut down or remove the generator usage.

I use a single Yamaha EF2000 i Generator, (I have 2 and can parallel them but I usually only take just one genny when I go to the mountains) full fuel and a 2.5 gallon gas can provide the fuel required for a 3-4 day stay.

On our recent Yellowstone trip (minimal TV on that trip as we were so busy out and about and too tired to watch TV when we got back) I only had to recharge the batteries twice on an eight day stay.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:13 AM   #11
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My interpretation of what you are saying is, you have a 5000 watt inverter, but are only going to use a fraction of it's capability?

If so, that is certainly possible. I still think you would want say 4 6 volt gc2s on board. Yes, you could possibly hardwire a few outlets to the inverter if they are going in accessible areas.

Being able to use the 5000 watts certainly would get very expensive fast.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodman View Post
Thanks. And this is why I thought 5000W would be more than enough. Simple calculation, but a 1200W microwave, on for a couple of minutes to heat food, would only be 10amps @ 120V. 10 amps drawn from a 500 amp battery still leaves lots of power. That doesn't sound like a lot and the 500W inverter would be more than enough reserve to not stress the system.

What am I missing?
All inverters have an overhead involved in converting 12vdc to 120vac. The larger the inverter the more overhead involved. An inverter 1/2 the size of your 5kw would be more efficient and still meet your needs. Still to be addressed is how to charge the batteries. 500 amps is a good sized battery bank.
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Old 08-20-2020, 12:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodman View Post
Thanks. And this is why I thought 5000W would be more than enough. Simple calculation, but a 1200W microwave, on for a couple of minutes to heat food, would only be 10amps @ 120V. 10 amps drawn from a 500 amp battery still leaves lots of power. That doesn't sound like a lot and the 500W inverter would be more than enough reserve to not stress the system.

What am I missing?
10 amps @120v ac does not equal 10 amps @12v DC. I'd suggest you read some of the web sites on Solar panels. Most have charts on "typical" amp hour loads for appliances and the storage requirements.
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Old 08-21-2020, 06:30 AM   #14
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10 amps @120v ac does not equal 10 amps @12v DC. I'd suggest you read some of the web sites on Solar panels. Most have charts on "typical" amp hour loads for appliances and the storage requirements.
This!

The inverter will not be 100% efficient in the conversion from 12V to 120V either, you need to figure more than 100 amps out of your batteries for 10 amps into your microwave.

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Old 08-21-2020, 06:52 AM   #15
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This!

The inverter will not be 100% efficient in the conversion from 12V to 120V either, you need to figure more than 100 amps out of your batteries for 10 amps into your microwave.

-Brian
And I didn't get into the "500 Amp battery"! I'm guessing he's mixing CCA (cold cranking amps) with AH (Amp Hours) but thought one issue at a time.
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Old 09-06-2020, 07:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moodman View Post
I just bought a 12V to 5000W/120V inverter (AIMS). My intent is to give me some limited boondocking capability to my Montana HC (362RD) fifth wheel.

Currently, there is no 120V capability in my rig from the battery. The only thing I have is a 12V socket behind one TV, and I assume they put it there so that I could plug a small inverter in to run that TV from 12V.

But I have more ambition than that! What I would like is to wire up my 5000W inverter in such a way that whenever I boondock (rarely) I can use more of the outlets in my rig, like the microwave, all the other TVs, and a couple of other outlets.

So, what is my best approach? Ideally I would like it to be automatic so that whenever I am disconnected from shore power, the inverter takes over. The inverter itself is about the size of a breadbox.

No doubt this has been done many times, but I don't know how, so pointing me to helpful info would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Do your research before getting an inverter or adding to your rig. How much power does the inverter pull at rest? How much does it pull when under load and converting DC to AC?

The more watts you pull the more it sucks your batteries down. Lead Acid or AGM won’t last long with that kind of draw. How do you plan on recharging the batteries when they are down... solar panels, generator. A generator is always a good backup just for re-charging batteries, especially if slides are out and batteries discharged.

A 5000 watt inverter is a big inverter.
You are going to run everything at once.
3000 watt can run a coffee maker, lights, tv.
With coffee maker off you can run microwave or instant-pot.

There are so many you-tube videos and web info out there to give you an education on what’s involved in getting ready to go off grid in your camping.
You will go into it educated on what you need.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:27 AM   #17
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You don't need that big of an inverter. None of the things you mentioned use that much power. My tv uses 50 watts. The lights 2 watts. The furnace 40 watts. My microwave I run off a 1500 watt inverter - I turn it on when I use the microwave. The larger the inverter the more power will be sucked from your battery when it isn't being used. I have a 4000w in my solar powered barn and it runs my garage door opener, drill press, circular saw, and metal cutting saw. All use much more power than any rv. Unless you want to run the AC. If that is true, then you will need a power bank of batteries that will weigh about 1/4 of your trucks weight.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:37 AM   #18
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Just a suggestion

Might I strongly suggest that you discuss this with a qualified electrician before you invest a substantial amount of time / money? Working with electricity, AC => DC => AC, isolated circuits, grounds, neutrals, etc., is more complicated than it might sound at first blush.
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Old 09-06-2020, 11:35 AM   #19
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Agree with research and talking with qualified AC DC electrician.
If you plan on using any inverter to power your existing AC plugs it will need to be wired into your breaker box and electrical system for your rig.
Without it being wired in and connected to your electrical breaker box all the plugs won’t be hot.

If you have one of the ambiguously labeled “prewired for solar” RV’s it probably has two or three plugs wired in and back to a junction box that an 1500 - 3000W inverter can be connected to. But you still feed that inverter from DC power from your batteries.

Before you do a big permanent install, You can get one of the cheap 2000 or 3000W inverters and connect to a battery or batteries, then plug in an extension cord or appliance direct to the inverter.
See what you can run, how long your battery lasts.
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Old 09-07-2020, 03:04 AM   #20
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Other options

As you can tell, there are many things to consider when using an inverter. There, however, are other options available that you may want to research.
There are inverters with pass through technology, which means that you can have an electrician or mobile RV tech rewire certain outlets to an inverter. The pass through technology means that the inverter is almost always on and has shore power running through it, if the shore power goes away then the inverter immediately takes over for those supplied items. You can also get inverters that have solar mppt chargers built into them so you can connect solar panels directly to it, they will maintain your batteries through 120 volt and solar. You will however need substantial battery power to be able to run items that use more power without the need to plug in or recharge, more batteries equal more weight for you to have to haul around.
My rig has 1400 watts solar with 9.6kw/800Ah AGM batteries. Each battery weighs around 150 pounds, on my rig, I can run my AC all day long, even if it is over cast as the solar can easily maintain the usage, but at night, that changes when there is nothing to plug into. It is all a balancing act
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