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Old 11-09-2015, 10:20 AM   #1
binfordtools
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New Camper - Already Fiberglass Quality Issues

Short story…

Brand new camper needs fiberglass repair due to manufacturing issue.

Long story…

We purchased a brand new, 2015 Cougar 29RBK. This is our first camper. When we took delivery in June, and did the ‘normal’ walk around, spent time with the dealer getting to know the camper, all of the features, maintenance, etc. After the 2nd camping trip, we noticed a small ‘bulge’ on the exterior, fiberglass clad wall directly above the outdoor kitchen. This is under the fiberglass and measures about 1.5” long by ½” wide with no sharp edges. I was a bit concerned, so when I took my camper back for its 90 day review (now with 6 camping trips under the belt) I mentioned this to the dealer. Long story short, the camper has been at the dealer for over a month now for this bulge issue. According to the dealer, apparently Keystone could not agree if this was a cosmetic or potentially structural concern. Through weeks of supposed discussion, Keystone told my dealer this was OK to fix. OK to fix? So….my brand new, $30k camper has to have structural repairs made after less than one camping season? When I expressed my concern to the dealer, they explained that this is a potential separation concern, or, some other manufacturing concern. They also mentioned this was not the first time they have seen this on a Keystone.

Look, I get it; we all want light weight, inexpensive and Mercedes quality. For the 20 small things that have gone wrong that I looked the other way on, this is now the 2nd major issue with this rig (the first being a damaged water line under my camper which caused water damage to the underbelly which now still sags). My confidence in Keystone is not very high. Quality over quantity is not a mantra Keystone apparently subscribes to.

I’m concerned that the ‘repair’ will be shotty and noticeable. Will I have future problems with this? Will other major issues pop up after my whopping 1-year warranty? If the 3 months of camping this year is any indication, this rig will be a massive P.O.S. no matter how good of maintenance I do.

Love camping, but guessing this is the last Keystone I buy.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:04 AM   #2
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Not to sound too much like a smart-***, but be sure to log back in again when you find a different brand, pay 30K for it, enjoy its 5 year unconditional warrantee, only charge you for your three months camping or your actual night in the unit (whichever is less), you see where I'm going with this? This bulge is 1/2" by 1 1/2 inches.....really? You consider this a "major issue?" I would suggest that you probably wouldn't be satisfied with a Prevost at half the money. On your behalf, I suspect you are correct when you say the patch will probably either stand out or be worse than the bulge.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:52 AM   #3
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Before I reply do you have any pics as it really would help.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
Not to sound too much like a smart-***, but be sure to log back in again when you find a different brand, pay 30K for it, enjoy its 5 year unconditional warrantee, only charge you for your three months camping or your actual night in the unit (whichever is less), you see where I'm going with this? This bulge is 1/2" by 1 1/2 inches.....really? You consider this a "major issue?" I would suggest that you probably wouldn't be satisfied with a Prevost at half the money. On your behalf, I suspect you are correct when you say the patch will probably either stand out or be worse than the bulge.
Smart-*** mission accomplished.

If you read, I prefaced my comments by stating: “Look, I get it; we all want light weight, inexpensive and Mercedes quality…” meaning, I already know that a different brand may very well yield the same results. Nevertheless, when you lay out hard earned money for expensive items that have “major” quality concerns, yes – you may get some unhappy customers.

And on that subject of “major” in your comments; yep, guilty as charged – having a manufacturing issue that can either cause structural damage or at the very least, decrease my resale value when there is an obvious repair, I do call that major.
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Old 11-09-2015, 11:58 AM   #5
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Before I reply do you have any pics as it really would help.
I wish I did. It's been at the dealer for the last month. I never took any thinking it was merely cosmetic. Apparently it wasn't.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:30 PM   #6
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I'd be concerned with it too. Keystone already has a warranty "out" for cosmetic issues, so if it WAS just a bulge, likely fixing it would be declined.

What I'd worry about is if it's some form of delamination. We had spots in a Jayco (used) like this - and it wasn't an issue in they years that I owed it, but it was something that I kept an eye on and certainly you don't expect that with any new trailer. I'd think carefully about buying one used with spots like that.

I've seen great fiberglass repair work. And it can absolutely be undetectable by mere mortals, but that'll be up to how they make the repair.

IMHO, I think the OP is right to have it looked at - dealer and Keystone weighed in on it. Replacing fiberglass on a new trailer would be a big deal to me also.

OP: I'd want to see a similar repair that your dealer has made before. Or have a sit-down with the service GM. If he thinks it will be "detectable" - let him know that it's not OK with you and ask for a referral to someone who can repair it correctly. Keystone has an out with repairs that are functional, but look bad... Not that this is necessarily what you're going to get.

FYI - My underbelly sags also. No water damage. If I care to, eventually I'll weld in additional bracing to attach it. It IS a cosmetic thing.
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:50 AM   #7
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**UPDATE**

They fixed the bulge and in the process damaged the outside kitchen door. Another 2 weeks gone apparently. That will make a solid 2 months they had my camper; longer than I was able to actually camp in it.

Loving it so far
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:56 AM   #8
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Good to hear that they fixed the bulge and that you're happy with the workmanship
As for the outside kitchen door I'm not even going to ask how that happened Maybe they've been having cookouts after work and someone had too many beers and damaged the door
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by binfordtools View Post
**UPDATE**

They fixed the bulge and in the process damaged the outside kitchen door. Another 2 weeks gone apparently. That will make a solid 2 months they had my camper; longer than I was able to actually camp in it.

Loving it so far
Good to know "they" fixed your fiberglass issue, as for damaging the door, that sounds more like a "dealer" problem than a "Keystone" problem. Makes me wonder if the 2 months in repair is also not a Keystone issue, but more of the same "dealership maintenance" ??? Hmmmmm
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:07 PM   #10
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Good to know "they" fixed your fiberglass issue, as for damaging the door, that sounds more like a "dealer" problem than a "Keystone" problem. Makes me wonder if the 2 months in repair is also not a Keystone issue, but more of the same "dealership maintenance" ??? Hmmmmm
Maybe, but as a dealer that deals with these issues something like this takes time. First of all, often times it is hard to get it to show up in pictures to send to Keystone. Next, most dealers don't have an in house fiberglass/paint guy so you have to find a shop so sub it to that can handle it. Then you have to get that shops estimate and get it approved by Keystone. Then you have to get into that shops schedule to have it fixed. Most all of this is not controlled by your RV dealer so a month to six weeks is not out of line. This is not something that keeps you from using your RV so why not go get it and use it until the time it is getting fixed? I sure wouldn't miss any trips over a cosmetic issue.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:23 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=mark1228;188793] a month to six weeks is not out of line. QUOTE]

Here is the issue; Keystone provides a 1 year warranty for an item that costs as much as a new car. If the dealer has my camper for 3 of those months in total, and here in Michigan I store my camper for 7 months, that means I get 2 months of usage to find any warranty issues. Yes, you can say that I don't have to store my camper for 7 months - but that is the reality here at least for my family.

By the way, it's now December 3rd and I still do not have my camper back. That is a total of 67 days for THIS issue (not including the other times the dealer had it). I got a call today and it is apparently ready. I'll pick it up Saturday and see if everything was done correctly.

Also, I sent an email to Keystone detailing all of these events. Not even an acknowledgement of my email yet. So I spent over $25k for a product that has spent 50% of the time I've owned it in the dealer and the manufacture can't even bother to respond to an email? Before it gets asked - my email was respectful and factual to Keystone. I have seen a few people post on this site that Keystone does not stand behind their products. I am getting closer to believing this as well.
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Old 12-03-2015, 11:43 AM   #12
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Nothing will ever change until federal legislation changes. I'm definitely not a big government guy, but if the dealers and manufactures want to keep playing their games, new laws are the only solution. I wouldn't mind paying 10% more to get a RV backed by a warranty that won't leave me stranded because I didn't buy it there.
You can bet very few congressmen are RV owners.
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Old 12-03-2015, 02:56 PM   #13
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Nothing will ever change until federal legislation changes. I'm definitely not a big government guy, but if the dealers and manufactures want to keep playing their games, new laws are the only solution. I wouldn't mind paying 10% more to get a RV backed by a warranty that won't leave me stranded because I didn't buy it there.
You can bet very few congressmen are RV owners.
My solution will be to not purchase items from companies who do not stand behind their product. We (society) have grown accustom to things being throw-away. The more we let this happen, the more manufactures make things cheaper so they can make bigger profits and continue to feed consumers garbage.
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Old 12-04-2015, 04:52 AM   #14
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Follow up on the quality problems I’ve had with my Cougar.

I sent an email to Keystone customer relations, respectfully explaining the multitude of quality problems I have had with my camper since taking delivery in June of 2015. I explained that my camper has been in the dealership now 50% of the time that I had owned it, making my 1 year warranty all but useless going forward. I told Keystone I was not satisfied with their product and asked what they could do to make things right. Below are the responses I received from “Lisa Calderon” who I can only assume is the spokesperson for Keystone customer relations.

Lisa basically said Keystone will not do anything outside of the 1 year warranty to stand behind their product. She implied that I was somehow asking Keystone to reprimand the dealer by stating “we cannot control the dealer’s schedule” when this had more to do with the lack of quality with the Keystone product. If the items I had to have fixed were not there in the first place, my camper would not be stranded at the dealer for months.
I certainly understand that things happen. I know we live in an imperfect society and that quality issues are an unfortunate part of consumer purchases sometimes. But, what sets a good company apart from another in a long list of junk peddlers that we have all grown accustom to accepting is how they react when there are problems. Keystone has indicated that they do not care about anything except getting the sale. They should have made things right. They should have stood behind their product.

My only recourse is to be extremely vocal on social media and to all of my camping friends about what my experience was. Any chance I get at the campgrounds I will be sure to let people know that Keystone does not stand behind their product.


1st response...

Thank you for contacting Keystone RV. We apologized that this process has been an inconvenience for you. We value you and the information you have provided. A review of your correspondence indicates there were items that you found unsatisfactory. At this time we cannot extend the warranty as it is still good until 6/10/2016.

Thank you,
Lisa Calderon
Owner Relations
Ph 1-866-425-4369
Fax 1-866-273-1451
[email protected]

2nd Response…

We cannot control the dealers schedule. We also do not have a record of you calling in during that time frame to let us know that you were concerned about the work or parts.
The unit is under warranty until June 2016. Keystone RV will not extend a warranty or review for a warranty extension unless it has expired. If you have further questions or concerns please call our number below

Thank you,
Lisa Calderon
Owner Relations
Ph 1-866-425-4369
Fax 1-866-273-1451
[email protected]
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:59 AM   #15
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Well here's my opinion if a small bulge made u quit camping for the season you didn't think the situation through. I live in the same climate as u we store our campers more than we use them . When winter comes u take your camper in to get things fixed under warranty. A month or 2 ago dealerships were busy with winterizing campers busy time for them . Take your camper to them in your 7 month time frame like January and u will have 10 techs working on your camper because they won't have any thing to do. Every product has issues we just have to deal with it . If u complain about something without a solution you are just whining
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:04 AM   #16
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Well here's my opinion if a small bulge made u quit camping for the season you didn't think the situation through. I live in the same climate as u we store our campers more than we use them . When winter comes u take your camper in to get things fixed under warranty. A month or 2 ago dealerships were busy with winterizing campers busy time for them . Take your camper to them in your 7 month time frame like January and u will have 10 techs working on your camper because they won't have any thing to do. Every product has issues we just have to deal with it . If u complain about something without a solution you are just whining
Thanks for your opinion. However, you apparently didn’t read my initial comments when I mentioned that we had our camper in the shop for the 90 day checkup. The dealer was discussing with Keystone, not me. I only contacted Keystone to request that they offer something to address the situation that their quality concern caused.

You also apparently didn’t read the part where I already said that I realize most products have quality concerns.

I didn’t complain without a solution genius; I clearly stated that my solution was to let people know of my experience.
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:47 PM   #17
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Well here's my opinion if a small bulge made u quit camping for the season you didn't think the situation through.
A small bulge in the fiberglass on a new camper would have me quit camping too. Especially when observing a problem and then ignoring it can be categorized in the "neglect" bucket and void warranties...


Michigan's laws are not favorable to to consumers around warranty, but in my state, not having fixed an issue in 30 days actually reaches "lemon" status.. Mine has had issues that weren't fixed in 30 days.. Let alone 60 days, but if the weren't severe, I generally let it slide... I'm indicating that some states think 30 days to fix is a "reasonable" amount of time. More than that, not so much.

Delamination / bulging, I'd be very concerned also... A 1-year warranty on an RV that's basically stored 9 months out of the year leaves a very limited window for resolution.
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Old 12-04-2015, 09:02 PM   #18
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A small bulge in the fiberglass on a new camper would have me quit camping too. Especially when observing a problem and then ignoring it can be categorized in the "neglect" bucket and void warranties...
Thank you for the feedback. The thing is, I really have been patient with both the dealer and with Keystone. I don't think considering the circumstances, getting a 2 month warranty extension should be out of the question. It's curious to me why Keystone would not offer this.

And you're absolutely right, Michigan is not the best place legally to have this problem.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:02 PM   #19
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Maybe I'm reading Keystone's reps letter wrong??? The unit is under warranty until June 2016. Keystone RV will not extend a warranty or review for a warranty extension unless it has expired I may be wrong but I interpret this as ......" Why don't we wait and see if all your problems are corrected under your present warranty and then if they are not we will consider an extension?" The main thing is to have all defects documented by the dealer and reported to Keystone BEFORE the one year is up. (IN WRITING) Phone calls don't count for much. Bad-mouthing a company for not making good on a warranty that they still have six months to make good on .... doesn't make sense to me. JM2¢, Hank
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Old 12-06-2015, 05:13 AM   #20
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The main thing is to have all defects documented by the dealer and reported to Keystone BEFORE the one year is up. (IN WRITING) Phone calls don't count for much. Bad-mouthing a company for not making good on a warranty that they still have six months to make good on .... doesn't make sense to me. JM2¢, Hank
Hank - I'll address your comments.

6 months of warranty:
The Keystone warranty is 1 year. I bought the camper in June 2015. For a total of over 3 months, this camper has had to be at the dealer for one reason of another. I just got the camper back yesterday. It's now December so for me in Michigan, camping season is over and will not resume for me until at the earliest May. If you add all of this up, the warranty will be 9 months of warranty for a sitting camper. When the camper is sitting, it's impossible to assess any damage. So, effectively I will have roughly 3 – 4 months of service, when it’s in warranty to get anything covered.
If this camper didn’t have the quality issues it has, I would not even think of complaining. But, the fact is – this has had a multitude of issues all of which are needed to be covered under warranty. And, sure you can say that I ‘could’ be camping now. But, considering that it’s cold here, the RV parks in Michigan shut off the water which means we are not hooked up. I bought a camper like this so I could utilize the water, sewer, etc.
Fact is, if these were not build and design quality issues from Keystone, I would not be here letting people know of my experience.

Documented IN WRITING:
As was mentioned in my comments on the forum, I did email Keystone to make them aware of this situation.

“Bad mouthing” a company:
This is subjective at best. I didn’t say there were a bunch of a** holes, something I would think is “bad mouthing” a company. What I did do was state the facts about the situation and mentioned that my opinion was that Keystone has demonstrated they are not willing to extend my warranty by a few months to cover the quality issues that should not have been there in the first place.

When I picked up the camper, the dealer (who by the way, I am not really blaming for any of this) agreed that we have had some significant issues that should have been caught by Keystone before it was delivered. He also said there are far worse quality issues he’s seen on other RV manufactures. More of an industry lack of quality standards than anything I suppose.
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