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Old 06-28-2015, 05:37 AM   #41
C130
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The sad and unacceptable part is we've just accepted the fact that it's completely normal to have issues with a new $80,000 RV. It shouldn't be this way and is completely unacceptable in my opinion. It surely isn't in the automobile industry and the RV's, especially the 5th wheels and travel trailers, are not complicated at all. It's a crappy industry that gets by because they are all crappy and built about the same. The wait time for most repairs is insane and unacceptable also.

I will say we are happy with our Fuzion toy hauler but we bought it slightly used and the couple of issues the previous owner experienced had been repaired. One was the rear electric screen for the back patio. It was a known issue I guess and the screen was just replaced with a manual one. Works great and less complicated.

I think the local dealership is the key to happy ownership. Unfortunately, I've not heard a lot of good reviews about the local RV dealerships in Houston. We looked at new toy haulers yesterday and after waiting 30 minutes at Camping World we couldn't even get a sales person to show us what they had in stock. My wife and I walked the lot and not one person ever acknowledged us. I won't be buying from them after two bad experiences.
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Old 06-28-2015, 06:54 PM   #42
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I told my self if I traded again I would use CW. Figured it help getting service away from home.
Have you tried my favorite dealer? I bought at Katy but the 5th is at League City now for some service. A decent combo would be buy from John Hays at Katy and use League City for any service. But Katy might be getting better. I hear they had a big turnover in service.
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:59 PM   #43
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I told my self if I traded again I would use CW. Figured it help getting service away from home.
Have you tried my favorite dealer? I bought at Katy but the 5th is at League City now for some service. A decent combo would be buy from John Hays at Katy and use League City for any service. But Katy might be getting better. I hear they had a big turnover in service.
We looked at Holiday World mostly and I asked the sales guy about their service department. He actually brought up their past reputation first and how bad it had been before getting a new service manager. I'm not sure it's actually any better because when we were in Tennessee it got mention by someone at the Grand Design rally how they were having some issues with a few dealers and Holiday World was mentioned as one of their worst. I said great, that's would be my local Momentum dealer. I liked the fact they opened a store in Wilis which is close by to me but when the manufacturer says how bad the dealer is it doesn't give me much faith.

Camping World might be much better, I honestly don't know much about their service department. It was so hot and in the afternoon so maybe the guys were just exhausted, I know we were.
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Old 06-29-2015, 05:26 AM   #44
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I'm not surprised about the HW comments. Grand Design being a smaller manufacturer is likely more aware of dealer issues. We looked real hard at Grand Design but wanted the larger refrigerator in the Montana. Of course that is what gave us the most problems last year. Hopefully that is resolved.
Willis will be our last hope if League City is incapable of repairs.
That Katy salesman name is John Harris, not Hays. You could probably call him anything if he thinks you want to buy.
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Old 06-29-2015, 01:06 PM   #45
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For what it's worth, my passport 238ML has been trouble free. I had a loose connection under the bathroom sink but that occurred after several trips. All the other issues have been due to my not knowing how things work.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:53 AM   #46
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I can say that our Laredo 294RK has been great. We had a few little warranty issues - nothing that stopped us from camping and like a previous poster said - your dealer is really important and we went with a mom & pop dealer instead of General RV or Campingworld - They are Circle K RV in Lapeer Michigan. We are about 60 miles from them but well worth the trip.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:09 AM   #47
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were now on our 3rd trip with our new carbon 327 and still loving it, zero issues!
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:08 PM   #48
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The dealer never said I was underpowered?!?

The problem is not with the unit itself, it is with the individual dealer, and an incompetent "Factory Level" Customer Service Support Team.

My 3535RE Alpine, is among one of the finest rigs that I've owned, after giving up on the factory... and the dealer... and going rogue and doing it myself!
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:56 PM   #49
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The dealer never said I was underpowered?!?

The problem is not with the unit itself, it is with the individual dealer, and an incompetent "Factory Level" Customer Service Support Team.

My 3535RE Alpine, is among one of the finest rigs that I've owned, after giving up on the factory... and the dealer... and going rogue and doing it myself!
No wonder the dealer never said you were underpowered. That looks like a "turbo model". Have you tried to pull a ski boat behind the trailer yet? Probably will have to engage "tow/haul" if you do, otherwise, you should be "good to go" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-07-2015, 03:46 PM   #50
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Smile Cougar Xlite 29RLI

DW and I have gone from tents too pop ups to tag along to boats to a fifth wheel. The dealership experience (Camping in style, Whitby, On) has been fantastic. After using the RV for 5 months I have 1 issue. It looks like the tire manufacturer put a plug in the tire. I too had read about all of the bad reviews, a cousin who swore jayco was the absolute best rv manufacturer in the world (yet he has some issues!), I would highly recommend a Keystone product...but do a thourogh PDI!
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:51 PM   #51
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I am currently looking at a 2004 Cougar m-314 EFS-----any one have any goods or bads?
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:28 AM   #52
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First of all, Caddy, welcome to the forum. Lots of good info here. Search function takes a little getting used to, but the info is there. Secondly, you are buy a unit that is 12 to 13 years old. How has it been maintained? Been on the highway for 60,000 miles? The roof look like it might keep water out? I could go on and on. Tires and roof are the main things I would look at first and then go on from there. Luck to you!
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:19 PM   #53
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No, I do not have one. But, advice is take a rv expert or pay someone to spend a few hours going over the whole RV. Unless you really know how and what good is vs bad vs rotten vs just clean. Many look great until you inspect them closely when they get 10 or so years old. And even 3 to 5 years old if not maintained.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:05 PM   #54
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We love ours. Two years.. no problems except a dinette bench coming loose from the wall. I may have caused that.
For a lite weight it has all the amenities and construction materials I wanted. I would replace it with the same unit if something happened to it.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:04 AM   #55
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All RV's are built like crap ..... regardless of brand. The trick is to find the manufacturer that builds his crap a little bit better than all the other guys. Keystone seems to be a step up from a lot of the lower end RV's out there. Sure there are things I don't like about my Keystone. But most of them are minor things that I feel comfortable just changing myself.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:51 AM   #56
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RVs are high maintenance. If not maintained properly, it doesn't matter who built it, they can go to hell in a hand basket fast, especially if they ever get a water leak that doesn't get repaired immediately.

For the best insurance, find a dealer or repair shop that is willing to inspect it for you, may cost a couple hundred dollars, but that's a drop in a bucket compared to paying several thousand then finding out you bought something that will take several thousand more to repair or having to sell it at a huge loss to get rid of it. If the seller won't agree to let you get it inspected first, that should tell you all you need to know.

I see the same happen in the gyroplane world where someone who sees one on eBay or Craigslist thinks they are getting a good deal, then they bring it to us and find out they made a huge mistake and end up either selling it at a loss or spend more money on it than what they would have spent just buying a new one.
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:34 PM   #57
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One of my biggest frustrations is taking the Rv in and having to bring it back for the same thing it was brought in for originally. It's just "little things" that I have fixed myself much better and much faster. Another frustration is the amount of time the item sits on a dealers lot for repairs.. Once, mine was waiting for 3 months!! My dealer mostly has been good and we are working bugs out. Much of this frustration should be prevented at the factory where it seems " no one" does quality control. The customer should not be the first place where things that should have been performed,at the factory, or dealerships are not. Only left for the customer to check things out on yhe road..and to either fix it yourself or wait for a dealer to fix..
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Old 04-20-2016, 06:48 PM   #58
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. Once, mine was waiting for 3 months!! My dealer mostly has been good and we are working bugs out. Much of this frustration should be prevented at the factory where it seems " no one" does quality control.


There's an article here about how (as an RV dealership) to stay clear of Lemon law issues in states where consumers have protection. Something about not taking appointments when you aren't able to work on the RV, notifying the manufacture about issues that are taking a "long time" to fix and escalating them, as well as engaging in consumer contact within 2 weeks.

I'm going on week 4 of a slide issue.. Dealership has yet to originate any call to me (ever) in regard to service being delayed or complete. Generally, after 2-3 weeks I call, which I don't think is unreasonable... I'm fairly understanding of long repair times (as long as I don't have to go back again) - but a little communication would be great.
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:44 PM   #59
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I'll give them credit, they do seem to learn.

The new Laredos now have "fully painted front caps!" in the marketing material.

Of course that doesn't help those of us who's improperly made brown ones are turning chalky white because some plastic manufacturer didn't know how to pigment their plastic properly. A tiny percentage seem to have argued long and hard enough to get repainting paid for. Not all. Definitely not most.

You can wax improperly cured plastic and make it shiny all you like, it's still going to keep looking worse every year. Ask me how I know.

Funny how Keystone can turn down fixing it for most folks... and yet... tout the fix in their marketing material three years later as a "feature". Ha. Such hubris.

Wish I hadn't noticed the marketing material on the new ones. They've sure given me another reason to think they're really scummy.

I just fix the things that come up now myself and tell myself at least it hasn't been anything serious or mechanical.

If I would have used their stupid zerks to grease the wheel bearings, that would have been a mechanical and serious problem destroying my brakes, but great forums like this place warned about how stupid that little "feature" is.

You won't find that you're as likely to foul your brakes when greasing that way as not, in the owner's manual either.

Happy customer? Not really. Happy I have the trailer? Absolutely.

Any trailer company comes out sounding like they have a clue on these things and charges a little more and handles stuff properly under warranty? I'm there on my next one.

The consolidation in the industry destroyed competition. Not holding my breath for high quality craftsmanship to return.
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:06 AM   #60
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To piggyback on Festus2 and sourdough's comments (although theirs are very clear and very accurate), if you buy a new truck and have a problem with the steering, or an issue with a door that won't stay closed, or even a "big hole in the roof" that fills the truck with water when it rains, if you call Chrysler World Headquarters in Auburn Hills, GM Corporate offices in Detroit or Ford Motor Company in Dearborn to discuss the problem with "customer service", you'll find that about halfway through your complaint, the CS representative will interrupt you and tell you that you MUST take your truck to the nearest dealership service department to have it inspected. They won't tell you that they will repair it, nor will they tell you when they will have it back to you, nor will they offer to pay you for your "troubles" caused by the problem. They will only instruct you to go to the dealer. Some may be more "compassionate" than others, some may seem "sympathetic and encouraging" some may seem "business like and short or curt" but none of them will "spring with a promise of a check for your troubles". I find it confusing why people think Keystone should operate any differently. They don't and they won't make promises they can't keep based on "one side of the story" provided by an emotional (or clearly level-headed) customer who is reporting "his side of the problem". They all use scripted, empathetic responses, aimed at de-escalating anger and moving the customer to the dealer's service department for resolution.

NONE of them, (nor KIA, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc) would take your address and send you a new roof, replacement door handle or steering box. Nor would they make any "promises" about when or how it would be repaired, nor would they offer reimbursement if you want to fix it yourself. If you complain that the problem is "ruining your vacation" you'll get empathy, but no promise of what/when the results will be finished. This is especially true before the dealer has confirmed for the manufacturer, that there "really is a problem"......

It's not "that bad CS at Keystone", nor is it "that bad Jayco" It's the way manufacturers do business with complex items. We all know of the "guy that called the company and they sent him extra parts he didn't need and now he "got one over on the company and has spare parts because he "fudged the truth" and somebody fell for it. As companies grow and more and more customers "try that tactic" companies grow more firm in their requirement to verify the problem at the dealership before they even discuss solutions. Most will only discuss those solutions with the dealer, not with the customer. That "middleman" called the "company representative" is the "go between" for the manufacturer. You're "HIS" customer, not "Keystone's customer" when it comes to servicing your RV. They built it, but the dealer is responsible to repair it during the warranty. If it may need to be returned to the factory, he and the manufacturer make that decision, it's not predicated on the desires of the customer, but the complexity of the repair and whether or not it can be accomplished in the field. Their objective is to repair it properly for the least amount of money. It's not determined by the desires of the customer so he can be "assured it's done right". Their objective is that it's going to be done right "wherever it's repaired". That may not always happen, but it's the objective.

In today's competitive market, with the exception of a very few "we'll make it right" small ticket manufacturers who will send "commonly failed items" to the customer, you won't get "spare parts" or "legitimate replacements for failed parts" with a phone call. Companies just don't do that any more. Don't blame Keystone, Jayco, Ford, Chrysler or GM for not being responsive. It's the way they all do business today.

Sometimes people think: It's my house, it's where I live when on vacation, so I should get a priority and special treatment because I have a problem. If you look at it from Keystone's perspective, every customer with a problem with his "house, where he lives on vacation" expects that same "special treatment". Where then, do the "average, run of the mill" problems get placed? How can "every problem" get "right now treatment"? How can "you be the only priority"?

Are you being realistic when you demand that some "voice" on the other end of the phone in Goshen be able to effect an "immediate resolution to your priority" when it isn't within their scope and it isn't done in any other business of the same complexity?
I had a positive experience with Chrysler. When my lift pump on my ram went south, it was out of warranty on both time and mileage. I asked for some help and they told me to pay the 100 deductible and the dealer fixed the truck. On another occasion, they did the same thing on replacing u joints. This may be because I have purchased many of yheir products.. However, it is this kind of support that will keep customers coming back and contribute to new customers.
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