Tow Max Experience Data

[MISailor]

I've read with interest the postings about the problems with Tow Max tires. I'm wondering if I'm seeing more posts describing problems with these tires in the upper load ranges rather than in the lower load ranges.

I'm a data-driven kind of guy (DW prefers the word "anal"), so I'd like to compile a small database related to the Tow Max tire failures. If you have experienced a problem with Tow Max Tires, please reply and mention:
- Approx. Loaded Weight
- No. of axles
- Tire Load Range
- Age (of the tire ) when failure occurred
- Mileage when failure occurred
- Description of failure (blow out, tread separation, side wall bulge, etc)
- Any other pertinent comment

I'll drop the data into a spreadsheet and we'll see what shakes out. I'm willing to compile similar data from folks who have yet to experience problems if I receive any such replies.

[CWtheMan]

There’s an abundance of such tables, charts, files, etc. available to the trailer tire researcher. Some of the long established RV forums have historical archives dating back more than 10 years.

The item most often missing from all those historical records is the WHY factor. People just don’t take the time to investigate their tire failures.

We have been using our Keystone trailer for 10 years. It did not come equipped with Power King Towmax tires. In the spring of 2005 we started using them. The Everest is setting on it’s 3rd full set. We have had three catastrophic failures with the Towmax. One on I40 just west of Oklahoma City. The valve stem (steel) was missing and I suspect it got knocked off by road trash. Another failure on the rural streets of Rochester, NY. Large 1 & ½ inch cut in the sidewall. Another failure on US25 near Statesboro, GA. We herd that one blow. Sudden loss of air from sidewall damage. It had a small ragged cut just above the tread area.

The ST tire is much more susceptible to serious damage than LT tires. The sidewalls don’t have any protective materials and they all have shallow treads. Speeding kills more of them than their owners will admit to. At 65 MPH the ST tire is providing it’s maximum load capacity. If it’s owner has them loaded close to that load capacity they’re degrading rapidly.

CW

[BeerCan]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

There’s an abundance of such tables, charts, files, etc. available to the trailer tire researcher. Some of the long established RV forums have historical archives dating back more than 10 years.

The item most often missing from all those historical records is the WHY factor. People just don’t take the time to investigate their tire failures.

(snipped some stuff)

The ST tire is much more susceptible to serious damage than LT tires. The sidewalls don’t have any protective materials and they all have shallow treads. Speeding kills more of them than their owners will admit to. At 65 MPH the ST tire is providing it’s maximum load capacity. If it’s owner has them loaded close to that load capacity they’re degrading rapidly.

CW

Well said FE.

[thewhitehat]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

. . . Speeding kills more of them than their owners will admit to. . . . CW

That's something I wonder about whenever I hear a story of catastrophic tire failure, especially when the tires have only 1200 to 5000 miles on them. I know that tires can get damaged in a lot of ways on the road, but I suspect that many trailer owners drive while towing them in the same manner as they do when driving their car to work.

On my last outing, on a two-laned highway, I was keeping my speed between 60 and 65 (65 was the speed limit), when I was passed by a red Dodge truck pulling a good sized TT, and rather quickly at that. He had to have been doing a minimum of 70 to 75 to pass me the way he did. After passing, he disappeared off the radar pretty rapidly, so he didn't let up off the accellerator. I don't know what kind of tires he had on the trailer, but I thought it was rather irresponsible driving on his part, and may well contribute to early 'catastrophic tire failure'.

[CWtheMan]

Tire failures on new RV trailers still equipped with Original Equipment (OE) tires is probably a nearly impossible dilemma to solve - most of the time.

The major problem for most of those early failures is the lack of tire history. We don’t know when - if ever - the tires were properly aired. We have no idea how often the trailer was moved before purchased. Did the transporter air the tires and drive 65 MPH or less?

Another thing, ST tires are not mileage tires. The largest manufacturer of ST tires says their life expectancy is 3-5 years. The best figures found on predicted mileage for ST tires sold today is 15,000 - 20,000 miles.

It has been published by ST tire manufacturers that ST tires may degrade at a rate as high as 3% per year. Let’s look at a 3420# tire on 6000# axles. At the end of the first year it provides 3313# of load capacity. At the end of year 2 it’s down to 3217# and is at 3121# by the end of year 3. Anything beyond 3 years is iffy. Looks has nothing to do with it.

CW

[Ken / Claudia]

Tires, the most overlooked part of the RV and maybe the most inportant. I will not say any are better or worse none last long. At the Artic Fox factory several years ago. Trail America tires gave me their guidelines, in 3 years 1/3 of the strength of the tire is gone. 3 to 5 years life of tire. 5,000 to 12,000 miles is life of tire. Always inflate to max psi. Goodyear says traveling at speed 65 vs 55 there is a 15% thread life penalty, 30% at 75 mph. 20% below max. psi are considerd flat.
I have had tow max tires for 6 months and used about 1,000 miles. I put on metal valve stems when new, keep them 65psi. No issuses YET.
Good luck with the data, it is good information to share.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

There’s an abundance of such tables, charts, files, etc. available to the trailer tire researcher. Some of the long established RV forums have historical archives dating back more than 10 years.

The item most often missing from all those historical records is the WHY factor. People just don’t take the time to investigate their tire failures.

We have been using our Keystone trailer for 10 years. It did not come equipped with Power King Towmax tires. In the spring of 2005 we started using them. The Everest is setting on it’s 3rd full set. We have had three catastrophic failures with the Towmax. One on I40 just west of Oklahoma City. The valve stem (steel) was missing and I suspect it got knocked off by road trash. Another failure on the rural streets of Rochester, NY. Large 1 & ½ inch cut in the sidewall. Another failure on US25 near Statesboro, GA. We herd that one blow. Sudden loss of air from sidewall damage. It had a small ragged cut just above the tread area.

The ST tire is much more susceptible to serious damage than LT tires. The sidewalls don’t have any protective materials and they all have shallow treads. Speeding kills more of them than their owners will admit to. At 65 MPH the ST tire is providing it’s maximum load capacity. If it’s owner has them loaded close to that load capacity they’re degrading rapidly.

CW

Ok! Answer this than for me. I do have the data and I know what my tires were like before and after my catastrophic tire failure on my 318SAB Cougar.

The trailer and tires bought new in Feb 2010 took deliver in April from dealer. Trailer was ordered with ST 235/80R16 tires as this was an option in 2010.

The tire that failed was the original spare tire this was covered with the spare tire cover and sun block product was used also that is rated for RV tires. I rotated the tires in June of 2011 for the camping season, have always done this on my other 5er. The tire air pressure is always checked before every trip and maintained at 80 PSI with lug nut torque checked (static check) also. Then air pressure is checked every morning before we start out towing for that day (80PSI). I carry a spare air tank and compressor for this task. The weight for my trailer axles is (scaled weight) 8,140 LBS 2 axles. The speed that I tow at is between 60 to 65 MPH. The spare tire had less than 500 miles on the tire when it had its catastrophic failure. The tire failed 15 min’s (8:15AM) after leaving the camp ground on RT 80, as I was getting up to speed. Tire exploded sounded like I shut gun going off, my wife asked what was that, I was already checking rearview mirrors for tire damage and stated as such to her.

This failure cause including a new spare tire a little over $3,000 in damage to the trailer.

I am now using Michelin XPS Ribs LT245/75R/16E tires.

Jim W.

[thewhitehat]

You could call that an anomalous event . . . or really cheap junky tires. Was it a TowMax tire? I'm assuming it was.

[BeerCan]

All tires can and will fail. Does not matter brand or country of origin. You may have been unlucky and got a dud. Now before you get all riled up, I agree that there is a higher chance of problems with the ST style tire on heavier RV trailers. I am a big fan of using correctly sized LT tires on heavier trailers. It is my opinion that ST tires are great for light weight "around town" type trailers like the lawn guy might use.

My horse trailer had ST tires for years with no problems as did my trailmanor camper. When I purchased my Fuzion I got a little nervous because of its weight and decided to go LT G rated. I think it is one of the best upgrades I have made to this point. So to repeat, I think there is a definite point regarding weight and ST tires that needs to be addressed by RV manufacturers. As an aside I put P metrics on my horse trailer LOL

[CWtheMan]

We often hear of spare tires exploding. Sometimes they have never been mounted on the trailer’s axles. Sometimes after being mounted they will blow after just a few miles down the road.

Most ST tires have more chemicals added into their compounds than tires of other designs. So my theory is those chemicals, while in a static condition, will migrated to the tire’s low point leaving the upper section unprotected. The upper section will become brittle and dry rot.

On the other hand the chemicals may be so strong when not activated regularly they migrate to the low portion of the spare and permeate into the carcass causing unseen damage (s).

CW

[thewhitehat]

Interestingly, Discount Tire has these bulleted points on their website under the question: "Why Use An ST Tire?":

•"ST" tires feature materials and construction to meet the higher load requirements and demands of trailering.

•The polyester cords are bigger than they would be for a comparable "P" or "LT" tire.

•The steel cords have a larger diameter and greater tensile strength to meet the additional load requirements.

•"ST" tire rubber compounds contain more chemicals to resist weather and ozone cracking.

While this is certainly not a peer-reviewed technical study, these assertions may very well come from one (or many). Some comments I've read on this post (and others) makes it seem as though ST tires are somehow lacking in their design and construction, whereas, they may be constructed differently for very good reasons. The discount tire site also indicates that ST tires will not be capable of the mileage you can put on a truck tire. There are no 40,000 or 80,000 mile guarantees with these!

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by thewhitehat

Interestingly, Discount Tire has these bulleted points on their website under the question: "Why Use An ST Tire?":

•"ST" tires feature materials and construction to meet the higher load requirements and demands of trailering.

•The polyester cords are bigger than they would be for a comparable "P" or "LT" tire.

•The steel cords have a larger diameter and greater tensile strength to meet the additional load requirements.

•"ST" tire rubber compounds contain more chemicals to resist weather and ozone cracking.

While this is certainly not a peer-reviewed technical study, these assertions may very well come from one (or many). Some comments I've read on this post (and others) makes it seem as though ST tires are somehow lacking in their design and construction, whereas, they may be constructed differently for very good reasons. The discount tire site also indicates that ST tires will not be capable of the mileage you can put on a truck tire. There are no 40,000 or 80,000 mile guarantees with these!

I'll bet the Discount Tire reference information was generated by Carlisle Tire Co..

CW

[diugo]

I too had a Blowmax spare tire fail after just 150 miles of actual service. It was an LRD inflated to 65 psi, driven at 65-70mph, and carrying just 1800lb of load---well below the 2540lb rating.

I theorize that it got sun and/or heat damage from sitting on the south-facing spare tire rack for three years. The skimpy OEM tire cover only partially covered the tire on back side. That side of the tire was also mounted so tightly against the rack that it visibly deformed the tire (and broke one of the two rack welds).

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by thewhitehat

You could call that an anomalous event . . . or really cheap junky tires. Was it a TowMax tire? I'm assuming it was.

Yes; they all were TowMax tires. I believe they may have been the low cost bidder for the 2010 model year.

Jim W.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by thewhitehat

Interestingly, Discount Tire has these bulleted points on their website under the question: "Why Use An ST Tire?":

•"ST" tires feature materials and construction to meet the higher load requirements and demands of trailering.

•The polyester cords are bigger than they would be for a comparable "P" or "LT" tire.

•The steel cords have a larger diameter and greater tensile strength to meet the additional load requirements.

•"ST" tire rubber compounds contain more chemicals to resist weather and ozone cracking.

While this is certainly not a peer-reviewed technical study, these assertions may very well come from one (or many). Some comments I've read on this post (and others) makes it seem as though ST tires are somehow lacking in their design and construction, whereas, they may be constructed differently for very good reasons. The discount tire site also indicates that ST tires will not be capable of the mileage you can put on a truck tire. There are no 40,000 or 80,000 mile guarantees with these!

I am not looking for a 40,000 or 80,000 mile tire. What I am looking for is a tire that will not fail after 300 to 500 miles of use.

The other item that most people do not realize about the Michelin XPS Ribs tires is they are an all position tire for the drive axles and or trailers. These are commercial tires that are sold for these application and many haulers that use car trailers to haul cars in them use these tires. Otherwise known as hot shotters in the business who use pick-up trucks to haul items for a living. These users can put up to 100,000 miles on a year on the trailer and truck hauling for a living and want a dependable trailer tire.

Jim W.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by Jim W

The other item that most people do not realize about the Michelin XPS Ribs tires is they are an all position tire for the drive axles and or trailers..

Jim W.

Michelin does not build RV trailer tires. Here is a reference that better describes Michelin tire usage. You will not find any of their LT tires listed for use on RV trailers.

http://www.michelintruck.com/micheli...r-position.jsp

CW

[heli190]

Just lost a tire on my Alpine. It was a Tow Max with 7000 miles on it. I've always inflated to 80 psi cold.Per the book. I'm still under warrentee, but no sense in contacting Keystone.Their customer service is no more than a supplier directory service. I bought a tire extended coverage when I bought my Alpine and they covered it with no questions asked.

[LittleJoe]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Michelin does not build RV trailer tires. Here is a reference that better describes Michelin tire usage. You will not find any of their LT tires listed for use on RV trailers.

http://www.michelintruck.com/micheli...r-position.jsp

CW

The micheline rib spoken of above is an ALL position tire meant for steer , drive ,or trailer. These are excellent tires for trailer use especially if putting on higher mileage as long as you stay within their weight ratings. I will be replacing my towmax's with these when mileage or age dictate.
FWIW my 16" towmax have approx 8000miles on them treadwear looks very good , but I don't generally travel in summer when temps are high and heat is the biggest killer, ambient/tarmac as well as speed generated.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by LittleJoe

The micheline rib spoken of above is an ALL position tire meant for steer , drive ,or trailer. These are excellent tires for trailer use especially if putting on higher mileage as long as you stay within their weight ratings. I will be replacing my towmax's with these when mileage or age dictate.
FWIW my 16" towmax have approx 8000miles on them treadwear looks very good , but I don't generally travel in summer when temps are high and heat is the biggest killer, ambient/tarmac as well as speed generated.

Go to the website that CW posted, select the rim size for your tire and then, in the "trailer type" box, select "RV" (not horse trailer, utility trailer, etc) and you'll find that Michelin's own website indicates that there are no tires available in 15", 16", 17", 17,5", 18", 19" or 19'5". Will the Rib's work on an RV? Probably, many people seem to be satisfied with the results of their purchase. However, Michelin states that they are not recommended for RV use, just as CW indicated.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

Michelin does not build RV trailer tires. Here is a reference that better describes Michelin tire usage. You will not find any of their LT tires listed for use on RV trailers.

http://www.michelintruck.com/micheli...r-position.jsp

CW

I did not say they were RV trailer tires I said and I quote again "Trailers".

I made the decision to install them on my RV this was and is my decision.

I just know from talking and discussion these with other users how will they work out and how many users are running LT tires on their RV trailers.

If you want to run the ST tire and support China that is your call.

Jim W.