GFI issues?? Read this!

[MConnelly]

I had, read "had", a GFI problem in my 2009 Fuzion 403.
Problem was three fold.
First, a very , very cheep OEM GFI.
Second, It was wired in wrong at the factory. Factory guys repeat after me..."Line in Load out". It is clearly marked on the GFI receptacle and still they got it wrong. (End result? No GFI protection)
Third, and this was the tough one, A faulty ground connection in one of the GFI protected receptacles .

I found on the second island receptacle the poorest imitation of a duplex receptacle that ever existed. Nothing like the residential plugs I am used to.
The "trailer" style plug are all about speed to install and CHEEP for the manufacturer. In this particular plug the ground wire had never been pressed into the ground crimp. AND!!!! the paper wrap that should have been torn away was wrapped around the ground wire further insulating it from any hope of a connection .
To test my diagnosis ,I capped off the black lead leading to what was the second island receptacle, turned the circuit breaker back on that feeds the GFI plugs and reset the GFI. So far so good. Then I plugged the toaster oven, 1500W, into the GFI plug. IT WORKS!!! (With the toaster oven plugged into the now disconnected receptacle the GFI would trip.)
The GFI has been working properly for a day now.
Next on the "fix it" list is to replace all the duplex receptacles with residential style duplex boxes and receptacles.

Note...The "trailer style" duplex receptacles in my rig have no screws holding the cover on. The cover pries off. The actual receptacle is not mounted in a "box" . The connections are made by pushing the wires, with insulation intact, into a metal wedge meant to cut thru the insulation and make a connection.
On the black and white wires I took out of the problem receptacle the insulation was barely cut thru and the wires no where near pressed to the "home" position at the bottom of the wedge.
I prefer, a mounting box and screw connections on the receptacle.

Hope all this might help some one.

[ThePressureIsOn]

MConnelly, this is some very good information. Thank you for doing the leg work and making this fix, if needed, much easier for us.

[SlowPoke]

I had the same problem in mine..."Line in/Load out" haha...those amateurs!

I installed new recepts throughout where I needed power, but I kept the existing factory recepts. I did check the wiring on them, but in some cases, the space they were installed, almost REQUIRES the use of the type recepts they used. I just won't put a sizable "load" on them, like a heater, toaster, etc. Otherwise they should be fine for a small lamp or quick use.

As an electrician for most of my working life, I have never trusted the "Stab-In" type recepts like RV manufacturer's uses. I also don't approve of "Backstabbing" switches or receptacles, AT ALL. Around the screws ALWAYS! No need for safety to take a shortcut, I've been behind the fireman TOO MANY TIMES in older homes that have used backstabbed recepts...they are also a pain to troubleshoot depending on conditions.

I also went over the entire electrical system 1st thing after getting it home. Heck with checking it on PDI, I trusted my work on it, before I trust a shop tech's electrical expertise. 12v would be OK, but when it comes to 120v or higher, I trust only my handywork.

I know not everyone is an electrician, and would need the RV guys to help out, but receptacles are easy enough to check out, on your own with a tester, and a lil common sense, (and maybe a Google here and there )

On my popup a few years back, my converter had the neutral so loose "brand new from the factory" that the insulation had turned brown, and brittle, and the copper had that burnt look....NOT GOOD! No mean to scare anyone, but the key is, CHECK STUFF AFTER YOU GET IT HOME, If you don't know what you are doing, find a friend (or befriend) someone who does...and get it double checked!

[Bob Landry]

I'm also concerned about the quality of electrical work in these trailers. I thought about replacing my receptacles with quality ones, but got to looking and my walls are 2" thick and not enough room for to install an appropriate box for the outlet. Are there low profile boxes available?

[SlowPoke]

Yes, you can use a thinner "Wire mold" box and attached it... you can get these at any Lowes/Home Depot in ivory or white, plastic or metal...

A link to one kit I found is HERE for an old work application, that will guide you the direction for the type materials available to "do the job.

I have considered the "Plug strip" they have to run across the length of the counter top , but haven't made my mind up as to the necessity yet.

[MConnelly]

Yes there are 2" deep boxes make for one wire and the appliance/receptacle.
Or, if two wires go into the box, there are extensions for the two inch boxes that extend the receptacle out from the wall a little.

[SlowPoke]

Also, for "inside the wall mount they have these you can use, but they are really only good if you have only 1 wire feeding the receptacle, and not a passthrough...

[Bob Landry]

Originally Posted by SlowPoke

I have considered the "Plug strip" they have to run across the length of the counter top , but haven't made my mind up as to the necessity yet.

I also considered one of those, and there are some low profile ones that don't look that bad. I have two issue with them though, one is that they still take up a small amount of counter space, and that's already in short supply n my trailer. The other is hat they still have to be powered somehow, and unless you do the "additional outlet" mod, you still have a cord hanging down from the bottom of the cabinet and that's what offended me in the first place. it just looked ghetto to me.

[SlowPoke]

Originally Posted by Bob Landry

it just looked ghetto to me.

I'm EXTREMELY offended .... LOL just kidding!

Actually, as a thought, you could attach a small plug end on the end of the "plugmold" and plug in to the cabinet receptacle like you mentioned. As far as counter space, could you attach velcro to the back and wall about 2 or 3 inches up? Again, just a thought...(at the xpense of looking "Ghetto") <- I love that word....

[JRTJH]

Bob, I'm not sure exactly where you're trying to install an additional outlet near the countertop, but if you're wanting one on the range side of the sink, the current refrigerator outlet inside the back of the reefer sits about countertop high and is mounted on the inside of the outer reefer cavity on that common wall. All you'd have to do is remove the "single Reefer outlet box" and install some romex to piggyback to a new outlet, cut a hole in the wall inside near the back of the reefer cabinet and mount an old work box, duplex plug and cover. Your floorplan is almost the same as ours in that area and if you mount the plug right, it will clear the range cover when it's folded up for use and any appliance cords will run on the countertop behind the range cover to that "open space" between the sink and stove.

There is 14 ga romex already run to the reefer plug with the 15amp breaker for the reefer.

Just a thought to piggyback a quick install there.

John

[Bob Landry]

Any outlet that is close to a water source needs to be protected, so if the reefer plug is on a GFCI, than that's OK. If not he can still tie into the closest outlet, but the new one he installs needs to be a GFCI outlet. I just picked the outdoor outlet on mine to tie into because it was easy to run the wire through the cabinet and it was already protected.

[SlowPoke]

If the reefer is on GFI, depending on what you have, it may outta be changed, normally fridges are not supposed to be on ground fault interruption due to the compressor causing issues with the circuitry causing a false ground fault tripping out the receptacle...this could be a bad thing if you've left your TT for more than a while and possibly don't have auto gas switchover...or are outta LP....

This is why you should have only one plug location in the receptacle that the TT has for the refrigerator(betcha never noticed that!)...not allowing someone to attempt to plug in something else outside at the troubledoor not knowing that it isn't GFI protected.

Just an experienced thought, as I had at least 5 service calls I went to back in the day (and even 1 on a boat at a marina)...where someone had plugged the fridge in the house (or boat) into a GFCI breakered circuit, only to have the compressor trip the GFCI out causing the food to spoil while they were away...BUMMER DUDE!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by SlowPoke

If the reefer is on GFI, depending on what you have, it may outta be changed, normally fridges are not supposed to be on ground fault interruption due to the compressor causing issues with the circuitry causing a false ground fault tripping out the receptacle...this could be a bad thing if you've left your TT for more than a while and possibly don't have auto gas switchover...or are outta LP....

This is why you should have only one plug location in the receptacle that the TT has for the refrigerator(betcha never noticed that!)...not allowing someone to attempt to plug in something else outside at the troubledoor not knowing that it isn't GFI protected.

Just an experienced thought, as I had at least 5 service calls I went to back in the day (and even 1 on a boat at a marina)...where someone had plugged the fridge in the house (or boat) into a GFCI breakered circuit, only to have the compressor trip the GFCI out causing the food to spoil while they were away...BUMMER DUDE!

The Reefer in an RV doesn't have a compressor. It's a small heating element.

[SlowPoke]

That just shows my ignorance..lol... see my cheeks blushing....

Oh well, it still stands for regular electric reefers like those lil minireefers in an outside kitchen. Although most I have seen are plugged into a GFI protected circuit.

Not all electrical code applies to RV's all the time...lol

[MConnelly]

Originally on my 403 the Refer was wired thru in the box with the GFI but not protected by the GFI.

When I replaced the GFI I set it up the same way. No GFI for the Refer.