Room Slide Controller Failure Redwood Fifth Wheel

[SteveBlomquist]

A little help from my friends, please. I have a failed controller for the two hydraulic slides. It has failed such that 11-13V is being sent to the hydraulic pump solenoid and hydraulic slide valve causing the pump to run (attempting to drive the slides open) and trip the auto reset pump breaker causing a cycle of run/trip breaker/reset/trip. I immediately unplugged the signal wires from the solenoid and hydraulic slide valve and power cable from the pump to stop the pump from cycling and the hydraulic valve from heating up.

I have proven (with help from Lippert Tech Support) the Lippert level up system controller is not at fault by unplugging and removing it and rechecking for the errant voltage. The voltage remains at 13V.

My question is where the controller for the slides might be found in my 2017 Redwood 3401RL? It has to be a controller like the one used by the Level Up system but separate.The slides are apparently not part of the Lippert system and all it’s components are installed by Redwood at the factory. Their wires piggyback onto the Lippert system at the pump solenoid and non-Lippert signal wire at the slide valve on the valve manifold hence the source of the errant voltage.

Where has the Redwood factory hidden the slide controller?

Fortunately my coach is safe and sound in our spot here in Apache Junction, AZ.

TIA. Steve Blomquist

[Mikendebbie]

Steve - I went snooping around the Redwood Owners Forum to see if I could find some info on the Level-up system...and I see that you posted the same question there, but have not received any replies.

I have the Lippert hydraulic leveling system on my RV, but I am no expert...just know to push the buttons and it works! My system can be operated by the lockable Lippert panel on exterior of my unit on the drivers side. I am not sure where this panel is on your unit. Also the system can be operated from the InCommand panel (ipad-looking thing) which is located on an interior wall in the hall/steps to the front bedroom. The InCommand "brain" (called a BCM) is in the basement and I believe this is the second control panel you might be inquiring about. Get your ASA InCommand owners manual out, or go to thier website and download your manual, and read thru it to see if you can figure out where the switches are that will operate your slides. I have never done this - so I can't help you. The screen shot below is from a sales video for a 2017 Redwood 3400RL. I have a feeling that your Lippert system is just like the one on my Montana.

Forum member ChuckS is an expert on these systems. Hopefully he will see this thread and offer some assistance. You might also post this question on the Montana Owners Forum. There are active members there that are former Montana owners but now have a Redwood, and they still offer lots of help when posible. They might be able to help you.

[SteveBlomquist]

Thank you Mike, for taking the time to dig around and see my other posting! The command center in the basement is a mechanical override but it is not the controller (BCM body control module) I am looking for. My problem is a system architecture one. A BCM responds to the switch in either the iN-Command panel or the override panel and sends a signal to the hydraulic valve to open the loop to activate the slide actuators (hydraulic cylinders) and the pump to drive pressure to them. I know all the input points of manual control, it is the location of the BCM for the room slides I am looking for before I remove the belly pan and by brute force trace the wires from the battery compartment to the BCM.

I am also looking for confirmation that there actually is another BCM that is not a Lippert component specifically for the room slides.


The picture you show is awesome that is like a photo of my basement except I don't have that thing that is mounted on the forward bulkhead.

[ChuckS]

There is no separate BCM or controller for the hydraulic slide outs..

The slide outs ( hydraulic ) need the hydraulic pump to run either CW or CCW to use hydraulic fluid thru either the extend or retract hydraulic lines to each of the hydraulic slide outs.

Since your hyd pump is running ( you verified signal source at the dual polarity solenoid ) for both extend and retract 12 vdc singals

It sounds to me like the HYDAC valve for the hydraulic slides ( THERE IS ONLY ONE FOR ALL HYDRAULIC SLIDES ) is NOT electrically opening.

This will cause the hydraulic pump to RUN and build pressure but since the Hydac valve isnt opening the fluid pressure builds up and the Hi Pressure switch located usually on the return manifold block kills power to the hydraulic pump motor.

You can trace the wire from your slide out switch or in command BCM slide output terminals to that Hydac valve.

have helper operate system while you remove the terminal spade at that Hydac and measure for 12 vdc to ground.

If you measure 12 vdc then you know that either the electrical soloenoild coil that slides over the Hydac valve is bad or the Hydac valve is stuck or its passages internally are blocked

You can further TS by using an allen wrench and manually open that Hydac valve for the slides and then try operating the slides.. ( they should then move )

[ChuckS]

Also with the In Command system there is NO control switches on the BCM for the hydraulic slide out operation..

Those slide switches are ONLY for electrical slides

[ChuckS]

So what I am saying is that you state the hydrauilc pump runs and then shuts down either to the pump motor dc breaker opening up or the hi pressure switch opening up..

If this is the case then either the hydrauilc slide out Hydac solenoid isn’t operating electrically or the Hydac valve isn’t opening when the coil gets 12 vdc

You can quickly confirm where the issue is by checking that coil form12 vdc when slides are operated or manually opening the Hydac valve

Image from my Alpine.. Lippert hydrauilc slides

The purple wire (standard Lippert color code ) is for the slide out Hydac valve as shown all the way to the right in the image

Pull that terminal off and measure for 12 vdc to ground when slide is operate from in command

[ChuckS]

If your version of in command is Pro Plus then here is where to check for 12 vdc signal to the Hydac valve coil

[ChuckS]

Image of hi pressure switch that will open the circuit up if Hydac valve don’t open and pump pressures build

[SteveBlomquist]

ChuckS,
Thank you so much for clearing up one thing for me. The Room Slides do not have a separate controller. The thing that I didn't mention was the pump was triggered without a human intervention command from either the iN-Command or Lippert panel (for level-up system). I actually had the slides deployed and all set for several days when suddenly I hear a noise and go out to the front stow bin to hear the pump cycling. And yes you are correct the valve dedicated to the room slides was hot and not open. Fortunately, else the rooms would have been moving depending to the direction the pump was turning.

The solenoid that sends power to the pump was stuck causing the pump to cycle and trip the resettable breaker because no valves on the manifold were signaled to open. I immediately removed a lead from the pump and it stopped cycling.



Because the slide room valve became hot I assumed it was jammed closed but that it had also received a signal to open but had not. I later the next morning tested the valve wire and found 13V. and at the signal wire at the solenoid. Again all this began as an uncommanded action from the some place.



With my trusty multimeter I found the solenoid that drives the pump had voltage on one pole after I unfastened the other pole so I think the solenoid failed and have one on order from Amazon, exact replacement.


I also measured 13 volts from the signal wire that (thanks to your input) I now know leads back to the control panels in the basement and in-Command panel in the coach. On my call, the Lippert Tech said the signal wires (for Level Up) should not have voltage unless "the button" is pressed commanding the solenoid to run and the valve to open (by extension I assumed the same to be true of the Room Slide signal wire). Now I am suspicious of either the mechanical override panel (a failed relay?) or the iN-Command panel of causing the components to spontaneously run?


I will check the valve for the room slides and run the pump with my electric drill to be sure that valve isn't blocked or stuck. I'm not sure how to trouble shoot the source of the problem signal that started this mess? Should I just reconnect everything and see what happens? Hope for the best?



Just to confirm:

As an aside the Level Up system is Lippert and the factory installed everything it needs to stand alone and run including a control module to send a signal to run the solenoid and valves that comes from the Lippert control panel in the utility closet on the side of the coach. While the room slide system uses the same contacts on the solenoid as the Lippert control wire and separate wire to trigger the unique valve for Room Slides.
I got it?

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by SteveBlomquist

ChuckS,
Thank you so much for clearing up one thing for me. The Room Slides do not have a separate controller. The thing that I didn't mention was the pump was triggered without a human intervention command from either the iN-Command or Lippert panel (for level-up system). I actually had the slides deployed and all set for several days when suddenly I hear a noise and go out to the front stow bin to hear the pump cycling. And yes you are correct the valve dedicated to the room slides was hot and not open. Fortunately, else the rooms would have been moving depending to the direction the pump was turning.

The solenoid that sends power to the pump was stuck causing the pump to cycle and trip the resettable breaker because no valves on the manifold were signaled to open. I immediately removed a lead from the pump and it stopped cycling.



Because the slide room valve became hot I assumed it was jammed closed but that it had also received a signal to open but had not. I later the next morning tested the valve wire and found 13V. and at the signal wire at the solenoid. Again all this began as an uncommanded action from the some place.



With my trusty multimeter I found the solenoid that drives the pump had voltage on one pole after I unfastened the other pole so I think the solenoid failed and have one on order from Amazon, exact replacement.


I also measured 13 volts from the signal wire that (thanks to your input) I now know leads back to the control panels in the basement and in-Command panel in the coach. On my call, the Lippert Tech said the signal wires (for Level Up) should not have voltage unless "the button" is pressed commanding the solenoid to run and the valve to open (by extension I assumed the same to be true of the Room Slide signal wire). Now I am suspicious of either the mechanical override panel (a failed relay?) or the iN-Command panel of causing the components to spontaneously run?


I will check the valve for the room slides and run the pump with my electric drill to be sure that valve isn't blocked or stuck. I'm not sure how to trouble shoot the source of the problem signal that started this mess? Should I just reconnect everything and see what happens? Hope for the best?



Just to confirm:

As an aside the Level Up system is Lippert and the factory installed everything it needs to stand alone and run including a control module to send a signal to run the solenoid and valves that comes from the Lippert control panel in the utility closet on the side of the coach. While the room slide system uses the same contacts on the solenoid as the Lippert control wire and separate wire to trigger the unique valve for Room Slides.
I got it?

I will answer the area high lighted in Red first:
The Level Up system has a separate control module ( FWD Control Module ) that is located inside the front cargo bay up high. It has its own set of outputs to the pump motor solenoid to run it as well as the 3 hydac valves for the level up system. It is not tied to the portion of the control to operate the hydraulic slides

[ChuckS]

Back to the Hydac valve coil that was HOT.. There should be NO 12 vdc to that coil UNLESS the In Command display button or a separate toggle switch ( not the ones on the in command BCM is activated.

On the BCM there will be a series of plug in relays.. Once of those will be for the hydraulic slide out control. When you select the hyd slides to extend or retract that plug in relay completes the circuit from the BCM out to that Hydac valve coil and energizes the coil to electrically open the mechanically closed Hydac valve

When you measure at the BCM with NO DISPLAY buttons, etc touched there should be 0 vdc when measured at the correct terminal output on the BCM for the hyd slides to ground.

*** IF there is then either the plug in relay has failed and is stuck closed to provide 12vdc to the output terminal from the BCM to that Hydac coil or the BCM has an internal failure.

When you remove the TWO leads from the Hydac valve for the hyd slides ( one is ground and other is 12 vdc) you should read ZERO volts with no buttons on the display/switch pressed

If this reads zero volts and then reads 12vdc when toggled to extend or retract the slide then your BCM, wiring is good

You can then unscrew the large black cap on the end of that Hydac valve and slide the coil assy off.

You can use a 12 vdc source to the two terminals on that coil with it removed and a screw driver to verify the coil itself is good

This Lippert video will show you how to verify the coil is good or bad

https://youtu.be/jdto2G81V-0

Hope that what I have tried to explain makes sense to you.. I know this system pretty well but am sometimes unable to put into words to properly explain

[ChuckS]

Also for future reference these are two images from my Alpine with the Lippert six point hyd level up system

First pic I have identified the various wires to the front fwd control module for the level up system and second pic is the legend for the arrows and squares identifying each wire

These are from a PDF I posted in 3 parts sometime ago on this group

[bobbecky]

This has not been mentioned from what I've read in this thread, but have you checked the auto reset breaker that powers the hydraulic pump motor? The start and stop issue has been a huge problem with these systems, and the resolution is replacing the breaker, that is usually a 50 amp breaker, with the Lippert recommended 80 amp breaker. The load on the pump motor exceeds the 50 amp breaker capacity and this causes the trip and reset action you are seeing.
https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001896.pdf

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

This has not been mentioned from what I've read in this thread, but have you checked the auto reset breaker that powers the hydraulic pump motor? The start and stop issue has been a huge problem with these systems, and the resolution is replacing the breaker, that is usually a 50 amp breaker, with the Lippert recommended 80 amp breaker. The load on the pump motor exceeds the 50 amp breaker capacity and this causes the trip and reset action you are seeing.
https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0001896.pdf

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/...ippert0058.pdf

The OPs issue is: the hydraulic slide out Hydac valve solenoid valve coil is HOT. The pump motor is running but no slide motion. The Hydac valve is not opening electrically and is either stuck closed or the orifice holes at the end of the valve are plugged not letting fluid flow.

** EDITED POST: He is also getting an uncommanded signal for the pump motor to run when no human touched anything.. So either he has a BCM relay that decided to close - hence the power to the dual polarity solenoid to command the pump motor to run OR the dual polarity solenoid failed.

Its a rather unusual problem

[ChuckS]

for the OP:

Since you state the hydraulic pump was running BUT NO ONE had operated EITHER the LEVEL UP OR the slide out system control buttons ( either on the In command display OR from the separate level up panel ) you need to measure BOTH the EXTEND AND RETRACT SIGNAL wires directly at the dual polarity solenoid.

Either one of the control systems could tell that hydraulic pump to run and of course the pump would run but NO HYDAC valves would open unless they ALSO receive 12 vdc to electrically open.

I would verify that you have ZERO volts DC at the signal wires doing to the dual polarity solenoid when NOTHING is pressed. If you DO READ 12 volts on either the extend or retract signal wires then you will have to find out which system is sending the 12vdc to that dual polarity solenoid to make the pump run when NOTHING has been selected

[Mikendebbie]

SteveBlomquist - I failed to welcome you to this forum earlier in this thread - so welcome! Things may be slow over on the Redwood Forum - but the help here is overflowing as evidenced in this thread!

Besides the hydraulic system - there are many other similar systems in our units - so don't be a stranger!

[SteveBlomquist]

Chuck,
You have given me another gold nugget. Does the BCM also send power to the bi-polarity solenoid to energize the pump? You mentioned that the BCM through the relay energizes the Hydac valve for the slides. OR does the signal to the bi-polarity solenoid come from the iN-Command control panel? If so how do they keep synchronized?
I will check the BCM for the relay and the Hydac slide valve solenoid. That YouTube link calmed my fears over how to check that Hydac valve solenoid.

You have given me a great learning of the system architecture.


Update: I have found that the valve and pump solenoids get power from the BCM in the basement thanks to the ASA In-command pro plus manual. The manual shows signal wire but is labelled "landing gear" so both solenoids are possibly tied to two relays to operate the vale solenoid and the reversible pump solenoid. I know the Lippert Level up system electrically is independent of the In-Command system therefore the "landing gear" label is functionally equivalent to the requirements to run the "room slides". Now I am hunting for a failed relay in the BCM. What a relief that the In-Command display is no longer under suspicion.



Tell me if my thinking is upside down!

Thanks a million bucks worth!

[SteveBlomquist]

I am very happy to have joined this forum and especially to connect with ChuckS.

[ChuckS]

I have added two pics from my Alpine..

The first shows the dual polarity solenoid and I have identified two sets of wires to the retract side and two for extend side

One set of wires — green and yellow come directly from the Lippert level up front fwd controller as shown in second pic.. these two wires tell the pump to run CW or CCW..

*** separate wires also come directly from the front fwd controller to tell the front LG,RT side or right side leveler Hydac valves to open or close

This IS NOT tied into the BCM

You also see a second set of wires on the dual polarity solenoid.. these come from the toggle switch for slide operation. ( Green and White )It sends 12 vdc to either extend or retract side or solenoid PLUS there is a separate wire that sends 12 vdc to the Single hydac for slide out control

Your signal source for level up side of system to run hyd pump and open those Hydac valves comes ONLY FROM THE FRONT FWD CONTROL MODULE..period

otherwise the hydraulic levelers have no idea when to open or close based on the state of level of the RV.. The LEVEL UP Front Fwd Control module HAS TO CONTROL those three Hydac valves opening and closing to make the level up system respond correctly to control the state of level or separately operate them

When you activate the slide outs (hydraulic) to move of course you now aga8n have 12vdc to either extend or retract side of solenoid PLUS 12 vdc to ONLY the Hydac valve for the slides

OTHERWISE .. if the other Hydac valves received 12 vdc then the leveling system would attempt to operate as well

In your case your BCM “May Have” locked up the relay that sends 12 vdc to the dual polarity solenoid either due to a failed relay or a glitch on the In Command CANBUS..

** edited typos from my fat fingers and added a bit more info

[ChuckS]

ReRead your initial post again this morning and What appears to have happened is:

1. Hydraulic pump was commanded to RUN ( by Casper the Ghost )

2. The Hydac valve COIL for the slide out ONLY was HOT to the touch - this tells me it had 12vdc applied to it for an extended period and it WILL get hot

3. The HI PRESSURE Switch on the retract side manifold NEVER opened up ( AND IT SHOULD HAVE) thus killing power to the Hydraulic pump motor to prevent undue high pressures and excessive wear on pump and motor

4. The Hydac valve COIL was getting a constant power and overheated

Why all of this occurred with NO HUMAN intervention to any controls is what you gotta find out.

If the dual polarity solenoid stuck after the hydraulic slides were extended you would have heard the pump continue to run

This all leads me RIGHT BACK to the BCM and its outputs from the relays that send 12 vdc directly to pump motor solenoid as well as Slide out Hydac valve