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Old 05-27-2022, 03:49 PM   #1
JoeBosco
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Three propane alarms (two new) all have sensor failure?!

I've searched for half an hour and found nothing that addresses an issue I'm having with the (appaently failed) factory-installed propane detector and two new replacements that also fail. So here goes.

Our 2017 Keystone Outback's propane sensor started going off in the middle of the night last year. It appeared that it wasn't because it detected anything, but that the detector wasn't functioning correctly. Since it wasn't horribly cold and we could manage without the furnace, I went outside and shut off both tanks, even knowing it would shut down our fridge. When I got back into the camper, I checked the stove and verified that there was no propane in the system. Started to crawl back in bed when the alarm went off again. So I grabbed a Philips and pulled the thing off the wall and unhooked the ground wire and went back to bed, knowing there was no chance that any propane was inside the camper.

The next day, I fooled with it, but no matter how many times I reset it, powered it off and back on, blah, blah, blah, it just kept beeping every so often. Since the camper was less than 4 years old, it didn't make sense to me that the factory installed alarm could have already biffed it, but in the interest of erring on the side of caution, I ordered a new propane alarm from a different manufacturer.

I installed the new alarm and at first felt like it was going to work okay. When I was just about the leave the camper to go back to my shop, the damn alarm went off with an error code pointing to a sensor error. So I called the company, explained my circumstances and 3 days later, got a replacement propane alarm. I installed it in the camper today and before I could even gather up my tools, the newest alarm started beeping every 30 seconds, throwing a "sensor error" message. Given the state of electronics today, there is almost no chance that two separate alarms from the same company could both be DOA out of the box, especially on top of having the factory alarm fail so prematurely before.

So now I'm suspicious of the camper. What about the wiring in the camper is such that it could cause this incompatibility issue? It seems since it's so easily reproducible, that we can't be the only Keystone Outback owners experiencing this problem, but how do I nail it down and resolve it? I'm not especially comfortable camping without protection, so any insight any of you might have would be welcomed with gratitude. And if you think I need to take this directly to Keystone, feel free to say so.
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Old 05-27-2022, 04:41 PM   #2
flybouy
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What brand/model LP detector? Are you running on shore power or battery? Have you checked the voltage at the detector? Some of them will beep or "chirp" (not alarm) if the battery voltage drops too low.
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Old 05-27-2022, 04:41 PM   #3
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Have you checked for voltage at the wires? I’m sure one of the techs will chime in, but I thought the detectors had an internal battery (not replaceable) and the power wire from the RV. My understanding is the alarm will beep about ever 30-60 seconds if either is bad. If it was an LP detection, it would be more of a constant beeping/alarm.
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Old 05-27-2022, 04:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
What brand/model LP detector? Are you running on shore power or battery? Have you checked the voltage at the detector? Some of them will beep or "chirp" (not alarm) if the battery voltage drops too low.
We must have been typing at the same time and thinking the same way. Lol
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Old 05-27-2022, 05:02 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
We must have been typing at the same time and thinking the same way. Lol
Yup, parallel universe?.
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Old 05-27-2022, 05:14 PM   #6
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what are the date codes on the detectors? i know it’s a long shot but my co detectors in my boat have sealed batteries that last maybe five years and then they start to beep

edit: when i replaced my co detectors in my boat back in 2015 or around then i received old date codes..they were over a year old on the shelf.

the brand xintex/ fireboy at the time were over $300…they have since gone down in price but i can see where a vendor would sell whatever they have on the shelf rather then lose money on old stock…especially with the supply shortages
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Old 05-27-2022, 06:40 PM   #7
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LP detectors do not any internal batteries. Some cleaning products and air fresheners will set them off.
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Old 05-27-2022, 08:19 PM   #8
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The only time my propane detector went off is when I let my camper sit for about a week not hooked up to any outside electrical source. Battery ran down and the alarm went off. Hooked the battery to a charger and the alarm stopped. I suspect a battery issue; perhaps the battery is hot wired to your propane sensor and the sensor isn't seeing the DC voltage it likes.
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Old 05-27-2022, 08:44 PM   #9
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The odds of 3 bad LP/CO detectors are slim to none! The 1st one was most likely needing replaced regardless due to age on a 5-6 year old rv.
I'd bet your rv batteries are the issue with the other couple detectors. Even plugged into shore power a good fully charged battery is required.
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Old 05-28-2022, 03:46 AM   #10
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Low battery(s) voltage usually causes the LP detector to chirp not fully alert.
I’m leaning towards another issue causing them to alert.

Hook it up to 12V outside in fresh air and if it still alerts then I’ll agree that it’s a faulty new detector.
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Old 05-29-2022, 07:54 PM   #11
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The batteries are the problem

Thanks to everyone who weighed in on my conundrum. I haven't had a chance to verify it the right way, but something else that happened to me today leads me to believe my dual 6v deep cycle Interstate batteries are the culprit. I was hooking up my 800w inverter so it can run my wife's CPAP. When I turned it on, it beeped repeatedly, so I turned it off and disconnected it from the batteries. Then I connected it to the battery in my tow vehicle (which I know for certain to be good), and it didn't beep once. Unfortunately, a cold front was moving in by then, so I had to head inside.

I intend to drop by a friend's shop tomorrow so he can test the batteries to confirm my suspicions and buy new batteries if necessary. I'll post the outcome once we're back from camping and I have internet aqain.
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Old 06-04-2022, 11:04 AM   #12
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Delayed resolution as we just returned from our first camping trip. I was able to determine that the batteries were indeed kaput. So, against my better judgement, I purchased the only two 6v deep cycle batteries within 45 miles of our house at O'Reilly auto parts. Brand new batteries, topping off charge during 1+ hour drive to campground should have insured that they were fully charged. By morning, having run the furnace set at 60, they went from 4 indicator lights to 1. I charged those batteries daily for an hour plus using my 2500 watt inverter/generator and they were still dying by morning.

So you won't be surprised to hear that both the original sensor and the replacement were still beeping after the battery change. I'm putting this to bed after I return the batteries and take my camper to the Keystone dealer in Colo. Springs. I'll let them figure it out.
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Old 06-04-2022, 11:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JoeBosco View Post
Delayed resolution as we just returned from our first camping trip. I was able to determine that the batteries were indeed kaput. So, against my better judgement, I purchased the only two 6v deep cycle batteries within 45 miles of our house at O'Reilly auto parts. Brand new batteries, topping off charge during 1+ hour drive to campground should have insured that they were fully charged. By morning, having run the furnace set at 60, they went from 4 indicator lights to 1. I charged those batteries daily for an hour plus using my 2500 watt inverter/generator and they were still dying by morning.

So you won't be surprised to hear that both the original sensor and the replacement were still beeping after the battery change. I'm putting this to bed after I return the batteries and take my camper to the Keystone dealer in Colo. Springs. I'll let them figure it out.
How much did your furnace run? If the batteries werent fully charged and you only drove 1 hr, they wouldnt be full charged by the TV alternator. And an hour plus isnt going to charge tham back up to 100%, its going to take HRS depending on how depleted they were.

I would take the batteries off the trailer, and have them LOAD TESTED. then with the batteries off the trailer I would measure voltage at the trailer leads when plugged into shore power and gen.

If the detector was only BEEPING it was doing its job.
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Old 06-04-2022, 05:14 PM   #14
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As Chuckster stated it is going to take much more charging than you are doing to get them up to filly charged.
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Old 06-07-2022, 03:16 PM   #15
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The batteries are out and I'm taking them in tomorrow to be load tested and will decide from there where to take this.

As for the feedback that the batteries weren't actually fully charged, that may have been true for the first night, but every day we were there, I attached the unit to our 2500w generator and let it run for about 1-1/2 hrs. I did this in the evening to maximize our potential to get thru the night without losing heat. Checking the info panel showed every day that the batteries were fully charged after I unhooked the generator. I've been doing that for years when using Interstate deep cycle batteries and always got a full charge. Also, when the Interstate batteries were still good, it was normal for us to get 2-3 days of operation without charging, which is one reason I question the effectiveness of the O'Reilly batteries.
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Old 06-07-2022, 06:35 PM   #16
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The InCommand panel will show full charge when you first unplug because it’s showing the “surface charge”. The true test is testing an hour later with no load. Your batteries may very well be sun standard, let us know what they say.
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:04 PM   #17
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If your batteries were anywhere near depleted (50% SOC), it's going to take hours for them to charge to 100%, not 1 or 2. No flooded lead-acid battery is going to go from 50% SOC to full in 1-2 hours of charging.

If you regularly run on batteries alone, you should definitely invest in a quality shunt-based battery monitor. I have the Victron BMV-712 smart monitor. It will clearly show how full your batteries are, how much you are using and how long it takes to recharge them.
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Old 06-10-2022, 03:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBosco View Post
Delayed resolution as we just returned from our first camping trip. I was able to determine that the batteries were indeed kaput. So, against my better judgement, I purchased the only two 6v deep cycle batteries within 45 miles of our house at O'Reilly auto parts. Brand new batteries, topping off charge during 1+ hour drive to campground should have insured that they were fully charged. By morning, having run the furnace set at 60, they went from 4 indicator lights to 1. I charged those batteries daily for an hour plus using my 2500 watt inverter/generator and they were still dying by morning.

So you won't be surprised to hear that both the original sensor and the replacement were still beeping after the battery change. I'm putting this to bed after I return the batteries and take my camper to the Keystone dealer in Colo. Springs. I'll let them figure it out.
Get a clamp on ammeter and find out what's drawing amps... That's the quick way, if you can get to the wires. Another alternative is hook the battery cable and remove fuses / breakers one at a time and see what's the draw of each circuit. That works if you can't get to the actual wires.
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Old 01-25-2023, 11:30 AM   #19
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Check your propane connections on oven, water heater, fridge ... anything else, they do come loose and its a good pm.
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