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Old 12-26-2022, 07:19 AM   #1
Voylyn
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Cool Upgrading

I will be going from a 36 foot TT to a fifth wheel. Is there that much difference whether I go with a 37 or 41 foot? I will be full-timing. Also the 41 foot has 4 slides and the 37 has 3. I am looking at a Montana and I will be in MN from May until middle of October then in Mesa for the other time. My concerns for the length are driving and the other concern is maintaining heat. I currently have a 2017 Premier ultra lite by bullet 30RIPR and it’s gotten down to 32 a couple of nights and it warms up nice when the furnace is on but when it shuts of it doesn’t take long to get cold quickly. Looking for input from you and your experience. Thank you
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Old 12-26-2022, 07:28 AM   #2
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Concern number one is you entering dually territory with the Montana. Number two, the Montana will hold the heat a little better than the average’ultra-lite’ RV. At 32 degrees the furnace will most always run fairly steady. And the four feet will make a lot of difference when full-timing.
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Old 12-26-2022, 07:41 AM   #3
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As Jim mentioned, the number one concern will be the tow vehicle, what will you be using? Going from an ultra light bumper pull RV to a 37-41' Montana 5th wheel is a HUGE jump in weight for the tow vehicle, which needs to be a dually as was pointed out.
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Old 12-26-2022, 07:46 AM   #4
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The only real difference in size is your personal preference as to layout. There are many who like to stay in the 35ish range to maintain more of an ease of access in more parks. But there are also many parks that accept large rigs and boondocking is also available. Pick the floorplan that works best for you.

The size difference also won't make much difference in total gross weight. No matter how you slice it you will need a 1 ton truck and most likely a dually in order to safely manage the weight. There's a lot of good info on the site on how to calculate that but just be aware of the need for a correctly sized truck.

Good luck in your planning! And congrats on upgrading!
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Old 12-26-2022, 08:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Voylyn View Post
.........Is there that much difference whether I go with a 37 or 41 foot?
Weight will determine tow vehicle requirements and length will detemine where you can camp and and how much added living space. My previous 36-38 ft fifth wheel trailers offered a little more camping flexibility but we love the 41 ft'er space and the DRW diesel tow vehicle provides a stable and safe tow.
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Old 12-26-2022, 08:47 AM   #6
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Fifth wheels seem to tow easy with less sway than TTs & obviously a lot more room inside & storage outside, but require a truck with big payloads in order to "carry" them.
If you frequent city, state or national parks across the country my advice would be drive into them to scout out those sites BEFORE towing a rv of that size into them, most will state that they have big rig sites & they will be correct, the issue is between the boulder lined roadways, low hanging limbs across those roads & tight turns you can't get that rig to those sites, don't ask how I know.
As far as towing you've already been given the best advice, if you don't already have one, you'll need a 1 ton dually for that much 5th wheel. And before the subject is brought up, it doesn't matter how much whatever truck you may have, unless it's already a dually, the advertised max tow rating rating means absolutely nothing in the rv world especially 5th wheels. Also the dry weight of that, or any other, rv is also a useless number to you. That rv likely has a GVWR of 17k +/- lbs which will equal 4k +/- lbs of pin weight, 23% of the posted GVWR is a good average to calculate the truck needs.
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Old 12-26-2022, 10:54 AM   #7
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Size Matters

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Originally Posted by Voylyn View Post
I will be going from a 36 foot TT to a fifth wheel. Is there that much difference whether I go with a 37 or 41 foot? I will be full-timing. Also the 41 foot has 4 slides and the 37 has 3. I am looking at a Montana and I will be in MN from May until middle of October then in Mesa for the other time. My concerns for the length are driving and the other concern is maintaining heat. I currently have a 2017 Premier ultra lite by bullet 30RIPR and it’s gotten down to 32 a couple of nights and it warms up nice when the furnace is on but when it shuts of it doesn’t take long to get cold quickly. Looking for input from you and your experience. Thank you
We went from a 26' fifth wheel to a 38' fifth wheel. I almost went with a 32 - 34' because I was concerned anything longer might be too much of a hassle getting in and out but the wife insisted on the 38 foot and we went with it. As it turns out, it pulls and handles so well that I wish I had gone with a 41' or more but we (she) did not like any of the larger floor plans.
As far as the number of slides, our 38' has 3 slides, 1 for the bed, 1 for the kitchen,stove,frig and tv, and one for the double recliner and dining table. Some floor plans have two slides that only have a recliner in each one. To me and my uses, since we do not use anything other than the one double recliner, having 2 slides with nothing but couches in them are useless to me. Each slide I consider to be an energy loser, so 3 slides are all I want anyways.
All of that said, as others have mentioned several times, hitch load is considerable on the largest rv's. Make sure that you have the weight capacity, pulling capacity and STOPPING capacity. My 3650RL Alpine has a scaled hitch weight of 3,380 pounds.
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Old 12-26-2022, 11:12 AM   #8
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I will be going from a 36 foot TT to a fifth wheel. Is there that much difference whether I go with a 37 or 41 foot? I will be full-timing. Also the 41 foot has 4 slides and the 37 has 3. I am looking at a Montana and I will be in MN from May until middle of October then in Mesa for the other time. My concerns for the length are driving and the other concern is maintaining heat. I currently have a 2017 Premier ultra lite by bullet 30RIPR and it’s gotten down to 32 a couple of nights and it warms up nice when the furnace is on but when it shuts of it doesn’t take long to get cold quickly. Looking for input from you and your experience. Thank you
Thank you for all the info. So can you tell about at what point do I need to go to a dually versus single. I was planning on upgrading to a 1 ton but I really didn’t want a dually. I am a travel nurse so mostly will be in the same place in Mesa and maybe 2 in MN. That will be my only vehicle to drive.
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Old 12-26-2022, 11:36 AM   #9
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It's really about the numbers. Start with 23% of the trailer GVWR. Then add people, hitch, and anything else you would carry in the truck. That total number is your payload requirement.

Then look at the sticker inside the drivers door of the truck. Somewhere it will say something like..."cargo and passengers not to exceed xxxxlbs". That number is the total payload weight that truck is rated for.

The payload of the truck should be a larger number than the total weight you're going to put on it. That will tell you whether or not you need a dually.
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Old 12-26-2022, 12:36 PM   #10
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The payload issue has been well explained. I don't want a dually either (have an F350 SRW) so I made sure my 5th wheel pin weight was well below my payload. My payload is right about 4K lbs and would be inadequate for almost any 37 to 41 ft. fifth wheel. What are you towing with now? By providing more information more contextual answers will be forthcoming.
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Old 12-26-2022, 12:43 PM   #11
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The payload issue has been well explained. I don't want a dually either (have an F350 SRW) so I made sure my 5th wheel pin weight was well below my payload. My payload is right about 4K lbs and would be inadequate for almost any 37 to 41 ft. fifth wheel. What are you towing with now? By providing more information more contextual answers will be forthcoming.
I have a Chevy 2500HD and pull a 35+1/2 foot Premier, ultra lite bullet.
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Old 12-26-2022, 01:01 PM   #12
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I have a Chevy 2500HD and pull a 35+1/2 foot Premier, ultra lite bullet.
What does the payload sticker in the drivers door say about your rating?
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Old 12-26-2022, 01:27 PM   #13
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Thank you for all the info. So can you tell about at what point do I need to go to a dually versus single. I was planning on upgrading to a 1 ton but I really didn’t want a dually. I am a travel nurse so mostly will be in the same place in Mesa and maybe 2 in MN. That will be my only vehicle to drive.

Your anticipated change while limiting the tow vehicle places you into the same conundrum that I and other have faced.

The weight of a Montana will require a diesel to pull. On the flip side the diesel reduces the payload which you need a lot of to carry a Montana. The sizes of Montana you are looking at will be in the 17k lb. gvwr range or more. You didn't give model numbers but I'm guessing the 37' would be the 3231? and there are a lot of models in the 41' range. No matter;

At a 17,000 gvwr figure 23% of that for your pin weight = 3910lbs. In addition to that you have to add the people, hitch, gear and other paraphernalia you will be putting in the truck (it will be more than you think) - let's say 750lbs. Now you're looking at a truck with a minimum payload of 4660lbs. You are now in dually territory regardless. The only way to stay within the realm of a SRW truck is to get a smaller, lighter trailer. A gas 1 ton SRW used to have a payload rating of about 4k lbs. A diesel would be 600lbs. or so less (3400?). As you can see those can't carry the weight of the Montana. With a diesel they can pull it...they just aren't built to "carry" that much weight.

You are in much the same position I was. I chose to go with the Montana High Country line. Some bling tradeoffs I wanted in a Montana or Solitude but I wanted a SRW truck more (and gas engine). You might look into the High Countries, less bling but a substantial trailer. Mine is 14k gvwr which opens up truck possibilities the heavier trailers eliminate.

The other; whatever length you get will be fine towing. You will have to get used to the length for maneuvering purposes, and a 5th wheel maneuvers differently than a bumper pull, but no big deal since you've been doing it with the bumper pull. The furnaces in the Montanas or the MHC work fine and will run you out even when it is in single digits. All trailers I've been exposed to cool down quickly in cold weather, they just don't have much insulation anywhere, especially compared to a regular house. Any of the 5th wheels that have been mentioned should have a heat pump(s) and they will take care of 90% of the heating in the conditions you've described.

If you are living in it you will have a much greater feeling of "openness" compared to the TT. We made the change 3 years ago and the change is very noticeable....and welcome when staying for a greater length of time. Number of slides just gives you more room and open feel, especially if they are located in the right area. It does present more space to heat, slide to maintain etc. but might be worth it to you. We chose 3 because although they provide welcome room, they can, and do, become problematic from time to time. I decided 3 was enough as I've had slide problems in the past. Think about those things and realize that the truck and trailer match are critical for your safety as well as others. Others will chime in and be sure to ask away with any questions as there are many I'm sure.
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Old 12-26-2022, 02:09 PM   #14
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Voylyn,

Putting the truck debate aside, I'll try to answer your question as I think I understand what you were really intending to ask. Yes, you got lots of truck / payload responses, so putting that aside, assume you have the appropriate tow vehicle for both.... OK?

We went from a 35 foot Keystone Outback to a 41 Foot Montana High Country. The Outback was a travel trailer and the Montana is a Fifth Wheel (same size as the one you are considering.)

Our Outback had 3 slides (2 opposing in the rear living room and a closet slide in the front bed room). The Montana has 4 slides (2 opposing in the front living room with front full window), the main kitchen slide (middle section), and the rear bedroom. Bed is in the slide.

We towed the Outback with the truck in my signature below. I used a 4 point Equal-i-zer weight distribution hitch system. The total length of truck and trailer hitched was 57 feet.

We now tow the Montana (same truck) using a Demco fifth wheel hitch in the bed of the truck. My truck is a long bed, the hitch is directly above the rear axle. The total length of my truck and trailer hitched is now 58.5 feet.

Even though the trailer is 6 feet longer, the overall towing length is only 1.5 feet longer. So, as far as length, you will not experience much differenct.

The difference will be when you make turns. The Montana has a longer tail swing than the travel trailer. The wheel base is different between the two (That is the difference between the hitch ball to the pivot point on the trailer axles, or the King Pin on the fifth wheel hitch to the pivot point on the trailer axles.

The wheel base (from my experience) is shorter for the fifth wheel, or at least it seems like it is. The pivot on the fifth wheel hitch is in the middle of the truck bed. The trailer pivot on the ball is behind the entire vehicle. This change in pivot points makes driving the two a different experience. DO NOT MISSUNDERSTAND ME HERE ..... I did not say either one was "BAD". I said they were different.

Coming from 64 years of towing nothing but bumper pull trailers, and then getting and towing my first ever fifth wheel took a 2 year learning curve before I realized one day, I was driving and NOT thinking about the fifth wheel behind me. It took 2 years to finally figure out how to back up (consistently) into a 90 degree angled parking spot (like a campsite). It took 2 years to finally REALLY figure out how much tail swing the fifth wheel "really" required ... and after clipping the end of the trailer, not once ... but twice.

Again, neither one was "better" than the other. They are both just "different" and the learning curve, adjusting from a bumper pull travel trailer to a fifth wheel trailer may take you also a learning curve. You may find it very easy and catch on right away. Or you may struggle with it for a long time. We each learn and get comfortable with these things at different rates. The important thing for you to do when you get the new Montana is to practice, practice, and practice backing, turning, and tracking that tail swing. This is best done in empty parking lots. But, the good thing is ... there will come a point when you finally have the "AH - HA!" moment. In other words, you'll have that decisive moment when all of a sudden you realize ... "I get it!" Just be patient. "It" will come.

As far as length, you'll not notice any difference towing on the highway, passing vehicles or being passed. You'll notice the difference when making turns in town... only because of that tail swing. Also, the way the fifth wheel WILL track different than your bumper pull trailer. So turns in town will require a different wide turn. That's why the empty parking lot training is so very, very important when you first switch over to a fifth wheel.

For me, it's now been over 4 years. Now, it's really comfortable. I'm not skeptical about pulling anywhere. And yes, I've maneuvered my behemoth in some really tight places, gas stations, and campgrounds and campsites that seem impossible initially.

Now ... if you have endured through my very long post ... a word about your heat.

Your Montana has a very high ceiling and it has 4 slides. The shear size of the interior daunting when it comes to heat. Your Montana will also have a heated underbelly. That means the space between the bottom of the trailer and the floor you walk on is heated also. There are open ducts running under the floor of your Montana that blow from the furnace to keep pipes and tanks from freezing. I am not exaggerating when I say, 50% of your heat will go into the coach where you live, and the other 50% will blow into the underbelly.

And when the outside temperature reaches about 30 degrees, you'll run through a 30 pound propane tank in about 5 days. At 20, you'll run through a 30 pound tank in less than 3 days. At zero, you'll be running through a 30 pound tank about every 2 days (or less). At zero, the furnace will never turn off. BUT! It will keep the trailer warm and the pipes won't freeze. THAT is the trade-off.

When temps get that low, it is important that the furnace keep running if you want the pipes to keep from freezing.

If temps are above 40-45 degrees, you can use your electric heat pump (on the air conditioner). Below 40-45 degrees and heat pumps don't work. They blow only cold air then. You will also have an electric fire place. These spit out a lot of heat. Again, if temps are above 32 outside, the electric heat is the way to go. Once temps reach below 32, you absolutely need to keep the furnace running.

We have found (when temps are in the 20's) the furnace fire place, set on 74 with the electric fire place, and 2 ceramic space heaters positioned in key locations will work well to keep heat blowing under the floor and will keep the coach warm. The secret is to find that balance where the electric supplements the gas furnace just enough to keep the basement heated, but not shut down because the thermostat on the wall thinks it's warmer than it really is. This takes some time to figure out, and no doubt you'll run through several tanks of propane before you figure out that perfect balance. But, again, once you figure it out, supplemental electric heat is the way to go.

I know you will enjoy your Montana once you get it. And I totally understand your concerns moving from a travel trailer to a fifth wheel. ... really!

You might also check out the Montana Owners Club forum too. It is also sponsored by RV Life Pro, just like this site is.

If you do, be prepared to get blasted about that 1 ton truck there too! It seems that topic is just the nature of the beast when it comes to towing Montana's!
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Old 12-26-2022, 04:31 PM   #15
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Thank you

Thanks for all the important info. A lot to think about.
Lynne
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Old 12-26-2022, 08:55 PM   #16
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Thank you for all the info. So can you tell about at what point do I need to go to a dually versus single. I was planning on upgrading to a 1 ton but I really didn’t want a dually. I am a travel nurse so mostly will be in the same place in Mesa and maybe 2 in MN. That will be my only vehicle to drive.
Well we are retired and full time, our only vehicle is a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW CTD. I mostly park where I want, NO it isn’t a Smart Car, but you can get use to the size and be very comfortable driving and parking.
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Old 12-27-2022, 07:38 AM   #17
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Voylyn........one option, since you are not nornally traveling around, is to hire a transporter to relocate your large fifth wheel to a new site........I have met many that do that. I also have used that service to store/transport my fifth wheel in/out of storage to./from camping sites at Pismo Beach.
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Old 12-27-2022, 08:14 AM   #18
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Voylyn........one option, since you are not nornally traveling around, is to hire a transporter to relocate your large fifth wheel to a new site........I have met many that do that. I also have used that service to store/transport my fifth wheel in/out of storage to./from camping sites at Pismo Beach.

I've never used a transporter but she said she goes between MN and AZ (Mesa). I guess that would be a round trip per year so it might be costly.
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Old 12-27-2022, 08:22 AM   #19
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Worth a try......might far cheaper than purchasing and maintaining a DRW truck that the OP might not want to drive fulltime. Obtain a quote here:

https://www.a1autotransport.com/fift...3%20per%20mile.
https://russellbrothersusa.com/rv-tr...ort%20Services
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Old 12-27-2022, 11:20 AM   #20
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I can tell you from personal experience…. I paid $3.00 a mile from Martinsville Va to Harrisburg PA. Mileage is based on miles the unit is pulled (you don’t pay for the miles they dead head home).
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