Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Technical Corner
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-05-2022, 04:48 AM   #121
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
Did you figure out what the Looped Romax went to?
The purpose of the romex loop is to provide a means for the owner to install an inverter with pass-through, aka bypass, to power the 3-5 electrical outlets the factory wired to the romex loop.

Your installation is not its intended use. But lots of people have done "creative" things with the loop.
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 05:30 AM   #122
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
Did you figure out what the Looped Romax went to?
I installed a Controller/Inverter with 4 Lithium Batteries then 4 Solar Panels using the wiring that comes with the 2020, Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton. And it works great when I plug in my 50amp line to a 50/30amp receptacle to my inverter.

I split the Looped romax wire and put on 2-15amp plugs and connected to my converter and it runs everything, However it eats up battery power even when I don't have anything running but a plugged in fan, which makes no sense.
I attached pics. Any suggestion on this Romax wire? I cannot find a wire diagram anywhere to figure this out.
here is the schematic from post #79….the romex wire you see is running from the solar 15 amp breaker in the wfco breaker panel up to the pass through….it then “loops” back to the three or more ( depending on year and model ) designated solar receptacles in the trailer (one’s that are powered by the inverter after it’s installed)

there is nothing mysterious or technical about this particular circuit…EXCEPT it is an extra long wire run that gives you slack to cut the wire at the location of the inverter and have enough to connect both ends without having to splice usually.

it’s designed for a pass through inverter with a built in transfer switch …the go power one you have may not have a built in transfer switch as they do sell a separate transfer switch on their website.

in the picture here you can see the schematic…the yellow line represents the romex loop wire in your pass thru…the blue is where you cut it …the red is showing both ends of ONE inverter.

with all due respect sir i would redo what you have there and secure the wires better…it looks like a insurance claim waiting to happen…start over and take a look at some of the pictures of installs. it’s easier to wire a inverter with built in transfer switch
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	309C6C6D-3885-4C24-BF10-5DF8D625B54D.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	175.0 KB
ID:	40049  
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 05:56 AM   #123
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
Was looking at this as a solution to the solar ready.

https://www.amazon.com/PowMr-Inverte...09NSFBYPP?th=1

It would require a transformer (230V only) and I am not sure how that would then tie in to the Romex loop with a transfer switch. But it would kind of defeat the purpose of the all-in-one when you add the other items needed.

Even better would be to run one line to connect/power the main circuit board & another to the shore power.

My 2021 keystone has the romex loop and the black and red wire (which ends in the front bay and does not run through to the battery). Pictures in an earlier post on this thread.
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 06:00 AM   #124
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
Does an all-in one mppt/inverter hybrid with pass-through auto switch exist?
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 06:05 AM   #125
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
here is a 3000W 120V version

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R3MSXTG...g_paid-20&th=1

Would it be possible to run a line from shore power to "AC in" and "AC out" to the main circuit board to power the whole trailer?
Shore power line already goes to the main circuit box. So you need 1 route for two wires from circuit box to front pass through. One for "AC in" and one for "AC out".
Maybe cut the romex, attach a fish line to the romex end running to the fuse box and try and pull it though? You would need to pull the romex back through as well as the two new AC power lines.
Then you just need to hook up the solar (red and black wire provided) and batteries.(not provided in pass through)

It would be a great solution if possible. (wire gauge/distance?)
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 06:17 AM   #126
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Just a reminder:

That "loop" is 14 ga ROMEX rated at 15 amps. The linked "solar power center" in post #123 is rated at 25 amps output. Installing that type if "power center" to the existing trailer wiring is over-extending the trailer OEM wiring and potentially setting up a "burn it down scenario"....

NEVER connect an inverter rated greater than 15 amps (output) to 14 ga ROMEX..... You might hope that the circuit breakers will trip before the wire overheats, but there's a reason for the 15 amp rating, even when installed with a properly sized circuit breaker.....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 06:28 AM   #127
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
Hi there.
Always welcome your posts.

So solution in post #123 isn't possible.

I would welcome your view whether solution above in post #125 is feasible?
Specs say AC output 25A 8AWG.
What would shore power AC in need?
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 07:05 AM   #128
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
What you have done there is down right dangerous and could be deadly. By "backfeeding" the panel you have energized the shore power plug. If anyone, say an inquisitive child, should touch ti they would get electrocuted. By backfeeding the panel the converter is trying to charge the battery while the inverter I'd draining the battery. This will discharge the batteries quickly.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 07:05 AM   #129
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
Maybe this is an even easier solution?

Don't mount the inverter mppt hybrid in the pass through at all.
Mount it close to the existing WFCO converter instead.
Advantages, all the wires you need apart from the solar zamp wires are readily accessible.

Use the shore wire connected to the existing WFCO converter to the "AC in" of the new hybrid.
Use the battery wire connected to the WFCO to connect to the battery of the new hybrid. No need to find a way to the batteries from the front pass-thru.
Attach "AC out" from the new hybrid to the fuse box. I have not checked a wire diagram to see how this would be done.
Which just leaves you to find a way to route an 8AWG wire from the new hybrid to the front pass-thru to connect to the existing 8AWG that connects to the rooftop zamp gland.

Hmmm. Workable?
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 07:19 AM   #130
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
i don’t understand why you would want to reinvent the wheel…the existing design parameters are simple and almost bulletproof…all of these “popular mechanics” workarounds are more complicated,unreliable and dangerous to use…god forbid if you sell the trailer and the scientist that designed it is no longer around to explain its operation and quirks…

plumbing and electric are not trades to get creative with…there are simple rules and procedures with both

the housing market is filled with old homes where amateur hobby “electricians” wire some convoluted disaster that just works when everything is perfectly aligned but will burn the house down if someone isn’t aware of the “procedure”
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 10:39 AM   #131
jxnbbl
Senior Member
 
jxnbbl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: jackson
Posts: 1,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Maybe this is an even easier solution?

Don't mount the inverter mppt hybrid in the pass through at all.
Mount it close to the existing WFCO converter instead.
Advantages, all the wires you need apart from the solar zamp wires are readily accessible.

Use the shore wire connected to the existing WFCO converter to the "AC in" of the new hybrid.
Use the battery wire connected to the WFCO to connect to the battery of the new hybrid. No need to find a way to the batteries from the front pass-thru.
Attach "AC out" from the new hybrid to the fuse box. I have not checked a wire diagram to see how this would be done.
Which just leaves you to find a way to route an 8AWG wire from the new hybrid to the front pass-thru to connect to the existing 8AWG that connects to the rooftop zamp gland.

Hmmm. Workable?

+1 on the last couple of replies. Where the current installation (even when corrected) requires different wiring on the AC side of the fence to it is the same for the DC side.



A true replacement would require a different inverter and/or a different configuration. The real difficult part of this (and potentially costly) is that for a 3000W inverter you need 4/0 battery cables to the inverter. Depending on the distance maybe even larger. I just built a system with 2/0 cabling and it isn't the easiest thing to deal with and I borrowed a special crimper from an electrician friend to make my cables.
__________________
JXNBBL (Jay)
Jackson, NH
2021 Keystone 330BHS
2023 Ram 3500 6.7L diesel, 3.73 ratio
jxnbbl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 03:11 PM   #132
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
Jarhead, just a thought here. Try to draw a wiring diagram of 1) your most desired electrical setup (I'd like to power every outlet in the entire rv), and 2) a more realistic goal (which is what that factory pre-wire was designed to be).

If you can draw it, others can give you advice. Without a drawing your goal and the offered advice will start to look like word-salad.

Just a thought...
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2022, 04:02 PM   #133
Jarhead
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa
Posts: 7
GoPower 12v 3000 inverter

Quote:
Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
Does that inverter have a transfer switch built into it???


It looks like a GoPower 12v 3000 inverter and looking at the specs, I don't see a transfer switch. That is a problem since unless you "fool with the breakers" you a back feeding the electrical panel. Is that what you want?

In other words one of those plugs goes directly to the electrical panel and one of them goes to 4-5 outlets in your trailer that are "solar ready". I assume that internally in your hard wiring both are energized by the inverter?
Correct and I finally found a schematic that shows the Romax wire hook up.
1 side plugged in works but need to figure out which side goes to my breaker and wire it to the inverter. Plan to work on it this week.

I have been running everything from connecting my 50amp line to the inverter.
Not sure what the transfer switch will do that the Controller does not do. ??
__________________
Jarhead
USMC Ret
2011 Ford F250 Power Stroke
Keystone Cougar 1/2 Ton
Jarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2022, 04:08 PM   #134
Jarhead
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa
Posts: 7
Outlets needed

Per the attached schematic. The PrepWiring will run everything I need while traveling down the road. Including the frig outside that holds my beer!!

Once we stop/setup I will run the main 50amp line to my inverter and it runs everything in the 5thWheel.

I have a friend that is much better at this than me and is coming over to hardwire vice the electrical plugs I am using.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Keystone PrepWiring Schematic3.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	786.1 KB
ID:	40085  
__________________
Jarhead
USMC Ret
2011 Ford F250 Power Stroke
Keystone Cougar 1/2 Ton
Jarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2022, 04:37 AM   #135
fchampneys
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sandy
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastcb View Post
Also trying to learn about how to install a system on my 2020 34TSB with solar prep package
Yes, me too. I have a 2020 Model 430 Fuzion. The only thing "solar ready" was the fact that my 5th wheel has a roof mounted docking port with red & black stranded wires leading into the basement and wrapped in a coil. Nothing else. So I have installed a 30A controller and 4 100W panels. It would be lovely to know how to wire in an inverter to power up my AC outlets. However, Keystone declines to provide me with a schematic or any information other than to tell me to take my trailer to the dealer to get it done. I don't think Keystone has a clue how my electrical system was put together. Talk about a mystery. They must not depend on repeat customers.
__________________
2020 GMC 3500 Denali 6.6 Duramax 10 Speed Allison
2020 Fuzion 430 Toyhauler
2010 Harley-Davidson FLHP RoadKing
2019 Honda Talon 1000X
fchampneys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2022, 05:31 AM   #136
mikec557
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Wandering the Country
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by fchampneys View Post
Yes, me too. I have a 2020 Model 430 Fuzion. The only thing "solar ready" was the fact that my 5th wheel has a roof mounted docking port with red & black stranded wires leading into the basement and wrapped in a coil. Nothing else. So I have installed a 30A controller and 4 100W panels. It would be lovely to know how to wire in an inverter to power up my AC outlets. However, Keystone declines to provide me with a schematic or any information other than to tell me to take my trailer to the dealer to get it done. I don't think Keystone has a clue how my electrical system was put together. Talk about a mystery. They must not depend on repeat customers.
Here you go. But I don't know if it will help. The Keystone concept is that (at least on the 2020 models) the owner/dealer will provide the right gauge wire from the batteries to the inverter, based on the wattage size of the inverter. The biggest difficulty I had was bringing (2ga in my case) wire from outside the pass-through to inside the pass-through where I mounted a Xantrex 1000 watt inverter. Drilling holes through the Styrofoam sandwich floor is easy, making it 100% waterproof, not so easy. Two things about the drawing, ignore the wire gauge size for the inverter. Use a wire rated for the inverter you install. And, ignore the yellow high-lighting. That's just the way I got it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Keystone Cougar Zamp OTG Schematic(1).pdf (91.7 KB, 121 views)
__________________
---------
Mike
2020 Cougar 26RBSWE TT (sold)
2018 GMC 3500HD Duramax (sold)
mikec557 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2022, 07:50 AM   #137
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
My 2021 bullet has the solar wiring from the ZAMP roof gland to the pass-thru and the ROMEX loop.
But no wiring to the battery, which isn't a big deal I suppose if you intend to install an inverter (you would need to run 2Ga wire anyway to the battery from the inverter.)

My use means I probably won't go solar + inverter any time soon. With young kids we generally need a full hookup anyway.(water limiting more than battery, as we have a Generator if needed).

However I did spend a lot of time thinking how it would be done if I decided to go ahead. Given the battery location on the tongue, it is necessary to install the inverter in the pass-thru (due to 2Ga wire needed to connect to battery). However rather than cut the ROMEX loop, I think it would be better to run 8Ga wire from the inverter directly to the DC fuse box AC in so that you power the whole trailer rather than just the 3 outlets.

You could cut the romex loop and use the end that connects to the DC fuse box to pull through the new 8Ga wire that will run from inverter to fuse box.(+ a guide line so that you could reconnect the ROMEX and reconnect the loop where you cut it. A lot better solution for not a lot more effort (although I don't know how hard it will be to pull through the romex wiring).

I would probably buy a Victron multiplus and run an additional SHORE supply from the fuse box(where SHORE power currently ends) to the multi-plus, and the 8Ga wire from the multi-plus back to the fuse box. The solar charger, bus bars, fuse, shutoffs etc all in the pull through.

All that said, if someone really just needed to keep their batteries topped up, a 300W solar suitcase connected to the sidewall port and a generator is the most cost effective, least hassle and still keeps your pass through clear.

https://www.amazon.com/DOKIO-Portabl...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2022, 09:27 AM   #138
jxnbbl
Senior Member
 
jxnbbl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: jackson
Posts: 1,109
Kevin,

Just some notes/comments on the entry since I completed an inverter installation on a 2021 Bullet. Which hits on both of the significant points. The first is just a highlighting a "it depends".

1. The wiring diagram posted depicts a certain inverter that has a recommended 2ga wiring from the battery to the inverter. There is a note on that diagram somewhere that will change the gauge of the wire depending on the wattage of the inverter. In my case, a 2000 inverter from the same xantrex company needs 00 gauge! In this case you want welding wire as it is more flexible, but more expensive.

2. In wiring back to the panel, having pulled apart the underbelly to do what I needed it would be impossible on my trailer to use the existing romex to pull another gauge through. My comment is that the gauge really is dictated by the output of the inverter with will most likely be 20A. Thus 12ga would suffice. Also, in my case, I reused both "sides" of the existing 14ga romex to power two outlet circuits on either side of the trailer. Since it was 14 instead of 12 ga (I know some trailers are coming with 12/yellow romex) I put in a marine power center with the 20 A inverter output being distributed/protected by 2 15A breakers.



Jay
__________________
JXNBBL (Jay)
Jackson, NH
2021 Keystone 330BHS
2023 Ram 3500 6.7L diesel, 3.73 ratio
jxnbbl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2022, 01:26 PM   #139
Kevin J
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Denver
Posts: 74
Great info Jay thanks.

I have used the welding wire in the past as well to install an internal ePO.

I was doubtful it would pull through, shame.
If I ever get around to the job, I am not looking forward to routing the wires from the inverter to the battery, nor the wire from the inverter to the fuse box. It seems the way you suggest (through the floor and along the underbelly) is most practical. My underbelly is covered by the coroplast(?) so I have no idea what lurks underneath.
Kevin J is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mod, solar

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.