Half ton towing

[C130]

Originally Posted by DrFaustus

Festus2, with all due respect I think your attack of my response is inappropriate.

You have completely misread my response and I think you owe me an apology or not cause frankly I could care less.

You can't be serious? By the way, are you actually a real doctor? Because if so, reminds me a lot of the doctors that fly their own airplanes.

35 foot trailer with a 1/2 ton; yeap, that goes in the category as "just doesn't know any better".

[chuckster57]

ENOUGH boys.

[14george]

I used to put a TT with a Nissan Frountier don't know what I was thinking but I will never do that again upgraded to a Toyota Tundra a world of difference

[Ken / Claudia]

Javi, Is a man of few words but, he sure uses those words to make sense. Post #60 is what I have said or wanted to say.

[bobbecky]

I'm not even going to talk weights or capacities of tow vehicles. What I was educated about 1/2 ton towing, by a relative who is an automotive instructor at a community college, is, you will be at or very close to the max capacities, and unlike the heavier 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks that have very heavy differentials and transmissions, the 1/2 ton trucks are very light in these areas and the heat buildup from towing will break down the lubricants very quickly. He advised adding temperature sensors to the differentials and trannies so the temps can be monitored, and he suggested changing the fluids quite often to protect the gears and bearings from inadequate lubricants. He also said, the gas engines will spend a lot of time at much higher rpm's climbing grades, and the same advise for frequent oil changes applies to the engines also. You will not be in a happy place if you lose a part of your drive train due to lack of maintenance when you should be having a great time camping at your favorite destination.

[michael_h]

[QUOTE=We loaded pretty light: 2/3 tank of fresh water (about 40 gals), QUOTE]

I know people here are going to disagree with me, but if you are going to tow with water in your tanks, it is best to tow with full tanks, not particle. I tow a 125 gallon water tank at work, behind an F350 super duty dually with a loaded fully covered utility box. With a partial fill in the tank the trailer gets to swaying so bad it jerks the back of the truck around (I try to keep my speeds no more than 55 max when towing that trailer). I now only tow it either full or empty but never partial

From that experience with my TT, all my tanks are either full as I can get them or empty, no in between. I've never seen it mentioned that some of the sway problems people may experience could be amplified by particle filled tanks, but my experience from work tells me 200 pounds of water can move a 10K truck making it dangerous to control

I either fill up when I get to my destination, or if there is no drinking water where I'm headed, a grocery store 36 count often is more than enough for the wife and I on a weekend.

[GunDoc]

It’s been quite a while since I have been on this site…I have owned and towed my Cougar for a year now and would like to report that it tows GREAT with my ½ ton! I have towed in heavy cross winds, up mountains, in driving rainstorms and through city traffic without any problems. I don’t even feel semis when they pass, nor do I get any sway. The Equalizer IV works great! My truck and trailer sit level when hitched and I have more than enough power to exceed the speed limit if I ever thought of doing so. Granted, I load fairly light, since I normally only go out for two or three nights. I don’t tow with more than about 10 gallons of fresh water (for emergencies) and passenger load is right at 500lbs for the three of us. My trailer has a very light hitch weight (610lbs dry) and I don’t carry more than 100lbs or so in the bed of the truck – all in a Pelikan case to keep the load from shifting. With all of this, I still have about 700lbs of payload to play with. I plan on keeping this rig for a few more years, then move up to a 1 ton with fifth wheel.

[GunDoc]

Bobbecky, Most newer ½ ton trucks are now equipped with 6 speed transmissions that include external transmission fluid coolers. Their gear ratios are such that they “match” the engines power band much better than the older 4 speed tranys. By doing so, the engine does not have to continually rev higher. Your relative may, or may not know that modern transmission also run hotter by design and the fluids (synthetic) are formulated for these higher temps. My transmission often runs cooler towing than when empty. I too know a little about drive trains. I supervise 30 technical representatives across an eight-state area (western US) for the US Army’s Tank Automotive and Armaments Command, the command responsible for developing, fielding and support ALL of the Army’s automotive and armament equipment, to include trucks, trailers, tanks, engineer equipment, etc. We provide technical assistance on all matters concerning automotive systems, up to and including over the road semi trucks in the Army’s inventory.

Michael, I agree, a WATER trailer, by design tows much better when either full, or empty. Most are cylindrical and allow for shifting of the load, unless, of course they are equipped with internal baffles which will retard the movement of the liquid. A water trailer also has a much shorter wheelbase. TT water tanks are much flatter to fit the tight confines of a TT, so movement of the water is reduced. These facts coupled with the difference in weight (around 333lbs for 40 gal vs 625lbs for 75 gals) make comparing towing a partially full water trailer to a TT with some water in the fresh tank a true “apples to oranges” comparison.

[jsmith948]

[My transmission often runs cooler towing than when empty.]

RRRReeeaaaallllyyyyy????????

[GunDoc]

Jsmith948, Yes, really. Most new transmissions have thermostats that limit flow of the fluid to get them up to operating temps. This can be anywhere from ~ 150 to 230F or more depending on the conditions – ambient air temps, grade, load, even tire inflation.

When towing on the straight and level in 70-80F weather my trans runs right around 190F. On a warmer day, or going uphill (empty) my trans may hit 200F. New transmissions are designed to run (SAFELY) at well over 200F. GM says theirs will run at 270-285F! Of course this would be in VERY extreme conditions and temps between 190 and 225F are more common even when towing. Anything over 270 WILL lead to rapid, premature failure. The old charts everyone likes to point to are based on old technology (at least 20 years old) and are of course cited by the aftermarket to sell coolers and trany fluid.

Running transmission fluids or engine oil for that matter at too low a temperature will also accelerate wear and cause damage to internal components. Oils have to get up to a temperature significant enough to remove condensation, which occurs as the sealed unit heats and cools. Condensation can lead to corrosion due to chemical changes in the fluids.

Owner’s manuals cite normal operating ranges of just about everything on our TVs. These ranges aren’t just “made up,” or guessed at. The automotive industry spends millions every year on R&D which includes exhaustive testing - Design, test, break, redesign and test again. The government also gets involved with mandated safety standards. The numbers listed in your owner’s manual have “met the test” and have been approved, by both the manufacturer and the appropriate safety agency.

[Seabee]

Originally Posted by GunDoc

Jsmith948, Yes, really. Most new transmissions have thermostats that limit flow of the fluid to get them up to operating temps. This can be anywhere from ~ 150 to 230F or more depending on the conditions – ambient air temps, grade, load, even tire inflation.

When towing on the straight and level in 70-80F weather my trans runs right around 190F. On a warmer day, or going uphill (empty) my trans may hit 200F. New transmissions are designed to run (SAFELY) at well over 200F. GM says theirs will run at 270-285F! Of course this would be in VERY extreme conditions and temps between 190 and 225F are more common even when towing. Anything over 270 WILL lead to rapid, premature failure. The old charts everyone likes to point to are based on old technology (at least 20 years old) and are of course cited by the aftermarket to sell coolers and trany fluid.

Running transmission fluids or engine oil for that matter at too low a temperature will also accelerate wear and cause damage to internal components. Oils have to get up to a temperature significant enough to remove condensation, which occurs as the sealed unit heats and cools. Condensation can lead to corrosion due to chemical changes in the fluids.

Owner’s manuals cite normal operating ranges of just about everything on our TVs. These ranges aren’t just “made up,” or guessed at. The automotive industry spends millions every year on R&D which includes exhaustive testing - Design, test, break, redesign and test again. The government also gets involved with mandated safety standards. The numbers listed in your owner’s manual have “met the test” and have been approved, by both the manufacturer and the appropriate safety agency.

The transmissions may very well be able to handle temps above 270F. The fluid will not. Period. If you feel comfortable running your trans at those kind of temps then more power to you Bro. By the by, a trans will not....I say again....will not run cooler when towing a heavy load. Simple physics wins every time.

[jsmith948]

Have to agree with SeaBee, while you stated in your response that the 'new technology' transmissions have thermostats that reduce fluid cooling during 'warm ups', that does not convince me that ANY drive train component will run cooler under load than when not under load. By the way, as a veteran, I can argue that not everything the military says or does is logical, accurate or correct! Just sayin'

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jsmith948

Have to agree with SeaBee, while you stated in your response that the 'new technology' transmissions have thermostats that reduce fluid cooling during 'warm ups', that does not convince me that ANY drive train component will run cooler under load than when not under load. By the way, as a veteran, I can argue that not everything the military says or does is logical, accurate or correct! Just sayin'

Thanks for your service and, after 26 years of "head scratching and asking, "Why did we do that?" I'll certainly agree with your assessment of military operations. But it's not just the military, remember the "current issues" with TAKATA airbags and the recent GM ignition concern. Wrong decisions and going forward with wrong data is prevalent everywhere.

[GunDoc]

Seabee, If you read my post again you will note that I said GM says that their tranys will operate at 270-285F in the most extreme conditions.. You will also see that I said that ANY temp over 270 will cause damage!

Jsmith, you can disagree all you like, but the fact remains that there are many times that my trany temp is hotter running empty than when towing. I am not saying that IF I were to tow the same way I drive empty that the trany temps would just as high. I adjust my driving style and always use TOW/HAUL when towing.

You are right saying that not everything the military does makes sense. I have either been in, or worked for the military for 42 years. Of course the military does not build the vehicles they use, rather Oshkosh, Navistar, AM General, Freightliner and others do. And yes, some time they get it wrong, much like the airbag fiasco. We (TACOM) issue Safety Of Use Messages, Maintenance Advisory Messages, and Field Alerts many times a year. We also submit Product Quality Deficiency Reports for parts that have quality problems.

Bottom line: Once the vehicles leave the assembly line the engineering process does not stop. When problems are found they are corrected, parts and processes are improved and manuals are revised. The automotive industry does the same thing through recalls and changes service schedules, etc.

I’ve been to the assembly lines, the test tracks and to the factory schools. I am not just stating some opinion based on things I’ve seen on the internet, or head by word of mouth. I am actively involved in this process every day.