Wheel well tire clearance - Page 3

Eric363 · 07-31-2020, 05:46 PM

John, I will look into it. Thanks!

pstltaz · 08-02-2020, 07:30 AM

As a side note. You might be surprised what keystone may warranty. I had a leak issue 7 months out of warranty. After some bitching and complaining they covered the repair and replaced the carpet also. I've found that the first person you talk to on the phone can't/ won't do squat for you, but demand to speak with a supervisor and you may get the help your looking for. Just my 2 cents worth. Either way, hope you get it worked out.

GaryAG · 08-02-2020, 02:17 PM

Our 364Q was doing the same thing, broke frame. Might check.

BAPotter · 08-02-2020, 02:31 PM

I had the same problem with my Bullet 251RBSWE. After consulting the Lippert spring charts I found that stock springs have 1 1/2” drop. Mine had sagged to 1 1/8”. I also discovered that the Keystone spec showed the East coast model uses 14” wheels and the West coast model uses 15” wheels. After consulting with Lippert engineers they confirmed that they build the frames/suspension the same for east and west so the 15” wheels will definitely be closer to the fender. Their engineers suggested that I go up two spring weights, to the 2200 lb,with 2” drop. (Normally only one spring weight, but they concurred I needed to get more spacing and the slightly heavier spring wouldn’t give as much). Thishas solved all the problems.

hazmat456 · 08-03-2020, 02:35 PM

Just flip the axle and be done with it. You will gain more than 3 inches in height and will need to adjust your hitch to compensate. But you won't have to worry so much about approach angles either.

LewisB · 08-03-2020, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazmat456

Just flip the axle and be done with it. You will gain more than 3 inches in height and will need to adjust your hitch to compensate. But you won't have to worry so much about approach angles either.

When you say "flip the axle" I hope you don't mean turning it upside down to move the spring perch from the bottom to the top! Trailer axles are built with a specified amount of arch so that they flex and straighten when they take the design load. Turning the axle upside down will put wrong angles on the entire suspension, kill the tires, etc.

If you mean "do a spring over conversion" by keeping the axle right-side up and installing new spring perches on the top of the axle, then that can be done if done properly.

**JRTJH** · 08-03-2020, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazmat456

Just flip the axle and be done with it. You will gain more than 3 inches in height and will need to adjust your hitch to compensate. But you won't have to worry so much about approach angles either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisB

When you say "flip the axle" I hope you don't mean turning it upside down to move the spring perch from the bottom to the top! Trailer axles are built with a specified amount of arch so that they flex and straighten when they take the design load. Turning the axle upside down will put wrong angles on the entire suspension, kill the tires, etc.

If you mean "do a spring over conversion" by keeping the axle right-side up and installing new spring perches on the top of the axle, then that can be done if done properly.

Crawl under your trailer and look at the suspension. I can't name one "flat floor slide RV that doesn't already have the springs on top of the axles... The days of "springs under the axle" are, for the most part, ancient history, at least on Keystone trailers... From what I've seen, if there's a slide, they all have the springs on top of the axles as OEM.

LewisB · 08-03-2020, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Crawl under your trailer and look at the suspension. I can't name one "flat floor slide RV that doesn't already have the springs on top of the axles... The days of "springs under the axle" are, for the most part, ancient history, at least on Keystone trailers... From what I've seen, if there's a slide, they all have the springs on top of the axles as OEM.

Thanks John - I'll take your word regarding Keystone trailers. However, "flipping the axles" is quite common with utility trailers, tent trailers, etc. in an attempt to gain ground clearance. That's probably where the previous poster came up with "Just flip the axle and be done with it."

The point I was trying to convey to that previous post is that ANY trailer with a designed axle system (Dexter, LCI, etc.) can not simply be flipped upside down and used that way because it screws up the design geometry of the system.

**JRTJH** · 08-03-2020, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisB

Thanks John - I'll take your word regarding Keystone trailers. However, "flipping the axles" is quite common with utility trailers, tent trailers, etc. in an attempt to gain ground clearance. That's probably where the previous poster came up with "Just flip the axle and be done with it."

The point I was trying to convey to that previous post is that ANY trailer with a designed axle system (Dexter, LCI, etc.) can not simply be flipped upside down and used that way because it screws up the design geometry of the system.

I completely agree with your statement about "flipping" the axle geometry. Axle tubes are "bent in a curve" and that camber is required so that when loaded, the wheels sit "perpendicular to the ground". In other words, so the tires will sit flat on the pavement... You're correct in the way "axle systems are designed" and the axles can not be "turned upside down to gain height"...

That said, "years ago" RV's were built with springs under the axles (similar to the way many utility trailers are currently built)... Many of those older RV's sat very close to the ground and typically there was only a 1 step entry staircase. Today's trailers typically already have "springs on top of the axles", 3 or 4 step entry staircases and flat floor slides with "NO wheelwells intruding inside the cabin".... That's the "hallmark of modern RV's"... flat floors, no "wheelwell bump with a sofa built on top of it" and "extremely high interior floors, when compared to the ground outside... In some cases with larger toyhaulers, there's 5 steps to the ground...

The point I was making is that on the OP's trailer, the "axles are already flipped" (meaning the springs are mounted on top of the axles)...

In the past 10 years, people have argued about "how to jack a trailer". Is it by the U bolts under the axles or is it by the frame... In years past (more than 10 years ago), there was no discussion because nearly all the springs were under the axles and we all jacked on the springs, not the axles.... Not so on today's trailers. All the springs are on top of the axles and we "argue about whether it's safe to jack on the axle tube, the U bolts or the frame rails 24-36" above the ground....

hazmat456 · 08-04-2020, 01:08 PM

No flipping the axle dose not mean mounting it upside down. It means flipping positions with the spring.
A vast majority of trailers are built with the axle above the spring, the easiest and least expensive way to gain ground clearance is to position it below the spring. Etrailer even makes a no weld kit for doing this. The only other safe method is to mount new spring mounts to the frame or building a subframe to lower the spring mounts. Never use blocks between the spring and axle, it will cause excess tire ware and a pothole has the potential to misalign the axle more easily.

shermris · 08-05-2020, 03:54 PM

I have a Bullet 248 RKS the clearance is over 5" above the rear wheels and 6" above the front when loaded but w/o any water in the fresh water tank. Your Bullet is only a year old so the springs should be in new condition. I would contact the dealer to ensure the tires are the correct size. Water weighs 8.33# a gallon so half a tank of water would only be about 200#.

uechikid · 06-22-2022, 04:21 AM

I know this thread is a couple years old now, but I have the same issue with my bullet 269rls. I’m planning to take it to a CAT scale near home when we get home. But I’d like to know how or if this was resolved.
Thanks

Eric363 · 06-22-2022, 06:28 AM

For me, I removed my dexter ez-flex system and installed Lippert Road Armor Shock Absorbing Equalizers. That raised it up enough that I haven't had rubbing since. But, still a little close IMO. Not sure if your situation is the same.

riorescue · 06-22-2022, 08:29 AM

After starting this thread I ended up working with LCI to determine if the suspension components had issues or defects. I was requested to put together formal documentation complete with pictures and clear description of the issues. I ended up creating a 22 page document that detailed the concerns with pictures including axle angles using a straightedge (tire to tire across the axle). What I realized is that even with the trailer unloaded the axle configuration (weight rating) is likely far too little for my 273BHSWE. I’ve found pictures online of my trailer model brand new showing the exact same 1-2” clearance above the tires. I also included photos of the leaf springs which have very little arc to them—almost laying flat (these are 4-stack leaf springs). LCI reviewed the documentation and said they would send two new axle assemblies at no cost. The issue though is that they required a service center to install them (and they wouldn’t cover labor). I reached out to Keystone to let them know I had been working with LCI on this issue and to see if they could organize the service appointment to have the new axles installed. They actually replied in email with some legalese lawyer type language stating “we decline to get involved or assist in any way with this issue”. Short version…don’t expect much assistance from Keystone on this issue. Also interesting to note. I worked with a great engineer at LCI and he mentioned a couple times that they’ve received numerous calls related to low trailers and overall the axle rating used was not sufficient for the trailer weight.

Given I travel a lot and I care more about traveling then having my trailer sit unused I’ve simply ignored the issue and I slap on some tape after every trip to cover the holes the tires wear through the floor. At the time I called around to trailer shops including where I purchased my trailer and they all had 3-6 months (or longer) service wait times. Just didn’t want to go through the process.

Working with etrailers.com I think a quick fix would be to replace the leaf springs with a 5-pack (stiffer) configuration which would lift the trailer a little and likely mitigate the issue. The problem there of course is that it’s not a fix—it’s just a workaround and will also add to a stiffer ride.

Overall, we get tons of use out of our Keystone trailer. The trailer has issues for sure—seems like every trip I find something fun to fix (i.e. dometic thermostat, dometic thermoster on refer, propane regulator leaked out 2 5 gallon tanks overnight in an RV park causing a small panic). LOL. I would honestly say though that Keystone has not been super helpful from a customer service perspective. This is my experience—your mileage may vary.

CedarCreekWoody · 06-22-2022, 11:55 AM

My keystone sat too low in relation to my truck so I raised it two inches by installing lifts on the spring shackles. These are available through etrailer.com. While I didn't have a tire clearance issue this increased the clearance nearly 2 inches. This might resolve your issues.

uechikid · 06-22-2022, 05:49 PM

Thanks everyone for your quick replies. We are currently using the trailer 600 miles from home. We had a blowout on our way here. I’m convinced that it was caused from constant bouncing and rubbing the floor of the trailer.
You’ve been a great help and given me some ideas to fix the problem.

wegone · 06-25-2022, 08:51 AM

Very similar to the issues I was having with my trailer 2019 Keystone - Bullet
Floorplan: 265RBIWE.

I posted here https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=50476

I didn't even know at this point they had rubbed on the right side.

The new axles and components look beefier now, and after just completing over 2k trip with no issues, or folks flagging me down from behind....

I think its fixed.

Of note, and my wife saw it too, before with the other springs, axles, etc, the trailer was exactly level with my truck, now it's higher and dips enough to notice at the WDH.

Maybe I will adjust that, what do you all think?

Trophyhunt · 05-08-2023, 09:26 AM

Glad I found this forum, we have a 2019 29’ bunkhouse model and all 4 tires have rubbed the bottom of the floor to the wood! Very low clearance, haven’t measured but sounds just like the original poster has. Sounds like we need different axles?? And the dealer should know about this issue?? Thanks all.

skids · 05-09-2023, 04:59 PM

Someone said that when tread separation from the carcass happens, the diameter of the tire increases dramatically. Then, the damn thing explodes while going down the highway! But don't worry about it, maybe it was an old wive's tale ... maybe.

**JRTJH** · 05-09-2023, 05:18 PM

Yep, tire tread separation is the "last chance to stop" (that we seldom have the time to do) before the tread starts "slapping the trailer underside"...

There's a "easy to recognize profile change" (if you're looking) but who is "looking at tires when towing 70 MPH down the interstate"....

Tread separation could easily be the cause of "loss of wheelwell clearance"....

Note the taller profile as well as the rounded tread surface...

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