Alpine 3910RK rear box attachment issue

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 05:12 AM

Hello all. Need advice.

Bought the 3910RK new last year. Had issues getting it level using the auto-level system. Front was good, rear was off. We have it at a permanent site, was delivered, and no means to tow it. The dealer thought it was a jack issue. We took it there early this spring for inspection. They determined it was not the jacks, it was a twisted frame. Submitted a warranty claim. 6 weeks later, (and 12 miles away from Keystone) a rep shows up, and determines its “structurally sound”. Frame is ok, but the rear of the box was not assembled correctly. The entire rear leans to the left. The fridge doors don’t work right. The cabinet doors won’t align. Water runs off the counters towards the wall. They said they would level the countertop, but that’s it. They told the dealer it’s not repairable. Dealer is shocked they won’t do anything. Keystone sales rep saw it at the campground, and didn’t like what he saw. Still no resolution.

Am I stuck with it? What can I do?

Thanks

**flybouy** · 06-16-2022, 05:22 AM

I'm confused. No way to tow it but you took it there this spring. 12 miles away from Keystone? What relevance does this have? The picture isn't any help unless the ground is perfectly level and the trailer is not. If it's a twisted frame then it begs the question was it twisted before it was set up at the cg. Also begs the question was a PDI (pre delivery inspection) conducted? If it was twisted at delivery to the cg then shame on you for accepting it.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 05:23 AM

Just an FYI, that is not an illusion. The lot is level, and the front of the RV is level. This is actually how far off the unit is.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 05:37 AM

No way to tow it…. Dealer came and picked it up.
12 miles away….. Still took 6 weeks to drive over and look at it.
The lot IS level and the camper IS level.

We bought it brand new off the showroom floor and had it delivered. The walk around in a confined space would not have made this as noticeable. My complaint shortly after delivery came with about the same attitude that you have. That I must be some sort of idiot and there’s no way it’s built wrong. Therefore the urgency was not prevalent that it gets fixed. And I mentioned that the frame wasn’t as twisted as the dealer thought. The box was not leveled on assembly.

bsmith0404 · 06-16-2022, 05:39 AM

I can’t imagine Keystone not doing anything about that. I’ve seen them buy back units and also take unsold units back for much less. I also can’t imagine why the dealer didn’t find this on the PDI. Did you go through the leveling process when you did your walk through? If it’s a new trailer, I definitely would not accept them leveling the counter. What about the floor, how would you sell a twisted RV down the road? Would a dealer take it in on trade without a deduction? I could understand a twisted frame being a “how/when debate”, but improperly assembled seems cut and dry. Although I never recommend people yelling the word lawyer because that normally stops all conversation/negotiation of working towards a proper fix, but if you have documentation from Keystone that it was not properly assembled, this is one time where I’d be saying the word if they won’t correct the issue vs trying to put a bandaid on it.

bsmith0404 · 06-16-2022, 05:42 AM

As for the box not being leveled on the assembly like you state. The floor sits on the frame, the walls sit on purifiers that are attached to the frame. What part is not properly attached? How can it get that far off? Have you gone through the manual level process and reset zero? This just seems really strange

**flybouy** · 06-16-2022, 05:43 AM

So when was this noticed? There are two possibilities and neither pertain to the title. To be clear, the trailer is built on the frame as is "one big box". The floor is laid down directly on the frame and one peice walls installed around the perimeter. Therefore the 2 possibilities are 1. The frame was twisted between construction and delivery or 2. Whomever set it up at the permanent site twisted the frame.

In either case you should have not accepted delivery. Now that it's after the fact your challenge will be proving that you did not cause this issue unless I'm not understanding the information that you have provided.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 05:48 AM

Nobody in the loop can believe they are not willing to do anything. My thought is, that keystone leveled and zeroed the unit at the factory with the twist evened out front to back. 2 inches one direction, and 2 the other. This would have made it much less noticeable. The dealer would have auto-leveled it at that setting. Once I had it, I put my laser level on it and could not get it level. I tried running rear jacks independently (dealer instructions)and all it did was lift front jacks off the ground. When it was back with them, they re-zeroed it and the twist shows up a lot more.

ChuckS · 06-16-2022, 05:52 AM

The frame still has warranty from Lippert.. also this unit has a three year warranty that covers assembly, frame, etc

Keystone customer relations would be the step to take if you haven’t done so already..

https://www.keystonerv.com/warranty

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 06:00 AM

I find it hard to believe myself, as does the dealer. I’m only stating information I was presented. The dealer originally stated the frame was off. Then the inspector said it wasn’t. He stated that the box was off. But, wanted to level the countertop. Wouldn’t that be parallel to the floor? Of course it is. And the fridge doors both swing to the right. ( it’s on the rear wall).

The frame was not twisted after delivery. I think they hid the defect by evening out the twist. Once re-zeroed, it showed up much worse.

It’s hard to even explain what’s going on with it, because it’s so odd what it’s doing. I’ve asked them to just replace it. I want the RV, I just want a straight one. Resale is a huge concern. I’m not going to hide it from the next owner. Someone would be ok with it the way it is. Just give me a new one and resell this one.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 06:03 AM

I’ve been getting the run around with them for about 4 weeks now. They tell me it’s fine. They are looking at it like it’s a 2” twist in the front, and a 2” twist in the rear. That’s in spec. But it’s 4” overall.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 06:09 AM

Inside at the front. And inside at the rear. Laser is self leveled.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 06:12 AM

It’s 2.5 inches different from ceiling to line on the left to the right. It’s almost 4” on the outside measuring the difference to the taillights.

bsmith0404 · 06-16-2022, 06:16 AM

To determine if it’s frame or box should be pretty easy, is the floor level? The floor sits directly on the frame. If the floor is level and the box is off, then it’s obviously a box situation. If the floor isn’t level, could be a twisted frame, but I’d also question the leveling system zero calibration and level manually. I’ve never seen a unit lift jacks off the ground, I can’t for the life of me even understand how that would happen. That makes me wonder if there’s an issue with the leveling system.

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

To determine if it’s frame or box should be pretty easy, is the floor level? The floor sits directly on the frame. If the floor is level and the box is off, then it’s obviously a box situation. If the floor isn’t level, could be a twisted frame, but I’d also question the leveling system zero calibration and level manually. I’ve never seen a unit lift jacks off the ground, I can’t for the life of me even understand how that would happen. That makes me wonder if there’s an issue with the leveling system.

My personal determination was that the frame was twisted. The inspector determined it was not, because the floor was level. But the box “leaned”. I do not believe when they inspected it that the unit was truly level. I used a laser level to try to level it manually, but could never get front and back level.

I also thought the jacks were off. The service manager at the dealership instructed me to operate the left rear jack independently to push the left side up. As we were on the phone, I did just that. It pushed that low corner up where it was supposed to be. I thought we had it fixed, and I kid you not, that front left jack leg was 4” off the ground. That frame will not twist. It is rigid.

Also, it sits just like this when all rear jacks are retracted, and it’s sitting on the wheels.

bsmith0404 · 06-16-2022, 06:38 AM

When you push the left side Jack button, all left side jacks move, including the front. That’s why I can’t figure out how it would lift a jack When you press front, both front move, when you press rear, all four rear move. Should not be possible to lift a jack. If you’re lifting a jack, that sounds like the leveling system is not working properly and twisting the rv.
You’ve been using a laser level, but have you placed an actual o the floor?

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

When you push the left side Jack button, all left side jacks move, including the front. That’s why I can’t figure out how it would lift a jack When you press front, both front move, when you press rear, all four rear move. Should not be possible to lift a jack

You’ve been using a laser level, but have you placed an actual o the floor?

If you push the left button and the rear button at the same time, it runs the back left jack by itself. The middle jacks are only stabilizing, and do not hold much weight. It will follow the rear jack but only put a small amount of pressure on itself.

Yes, I put a normal level and it shows it’s unlevel. But it’s just a bubble and not a specific measurement that I was after. I have pics of that method on the front left and rear left outside that I can provide. One shows the bubble on the right side and left on the other.

I also have a side view going front to back and the twist is very visible.

**flybouy** · 06-16-2022, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

To determine if it’s frame or box should be pretty easy, is the floor level? The floor sits directly on the frame. If the floor is level and the box is off, then it’s obviously a box situation. If the floor isn’t level, could be a twisted frame, but I’d also question the leveling system zero calibration and level manually. I’ve never seen a unit lift jacks off the ground, I can’t for the life of me even understand how that would happen. That makes me wonder if there’s an issue with the leveling system.

Can you explain how it could be the box? It's a system when built. I don't understand how a box can twist either axial or longitudinal without the frame twisting. Set a shoe box on a level floor and it will be level none of this is logical to me and I can't help but suspect that some important information is being omitted. JMHO

cgray3910rk · 06-16-2022, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

Can you explain how it could be the box? It's a system when built. I don't understand how a box can twist either axial or longitudinal without the frame twisting. Set a shoe box on a level floor and it will be level none of this is logical to me and I can't help but suspect that some important information is being omitted. JMHO

Who is omitting information? Keystone? I would definitely agree with that. I do not understand either how it’s not the frame. A VP at Grand Design explained that the walls are set then the roof is attached. That you have to get the walls right before you set the roof. That it’s possible they can skip leveling the walls and once the roof is attached, that’s it. But, Keystone offered to relevel the countertop. Why would that need fixed if the frame was straight? That’s gotta be parallel to the floor.

bsmith0404 · 06-16-2022, 08:04 AM

I personally don’t see how it could be the box either. It’s attached to the floor and sits on out riggers that are attached to the frame. If the floor is level, I don’t see how it could be the frame. If the floor is level, i also don’t see how the counter or cabinets could not be level since they sit on the floor. This is strange. The one thing that comes to mind is if the walls are the same height floor to ceiling. If it was mine, I’d be doing a lot more measuring and checking to try to determine what is really off

As for moving the rear Jack by itself, I don’t see why you would want to. The 12” I beam frame is unlikely to bend/flex end to end. That’s why it l lifted the front jack. The smaller cross members between the two I beams side to side could flex (I’ve never seen it happen, but would believe that before I believed an I beam bent or twisted. That’s also why all jacks on one side are designed to move together. You move everything down the length of the I beam as one unit.

You may also like: