On Demand Water Heater Control Issue

[Nathan]

Ok so I’m back and I spent half the day since it was nicer out in Colorado today to figure out my IW60 suburban hot water heater..and why I’m not getting hot water but I have great water pressure! So after taking the unit’s side’s off and doing hrs of research online and making a few phone calls the only thing I came up with was that the pilot light is not responding and is not lighting..but I can hear the igniter kicking on like it wants too! And on the other hand I go inside to the panel and now my panel in locked out! So here I go agin doing more research and I figured it was the 3rd lockout that was the effect..so I did all the steps to turn it back on and once I got it back on then it locked out again and now it’s not letting me do a dam thing! So I’m not sure if the circuit board is bad or if the wiring is jacked up..I’m just bought this brand new 2 months ago and I haven’t had a problem tell now and it’s getting cold out during the night so now I’m worried that my lines will be frozen..

Dose anyone have any idea what’s causing this??

[ChuckS]

have you tried using the reset button located directly on the PCB of the on demand water heater to clear the lockout condition?

Also prior to doing that turn the WH off and back on the see if Lockout will clear

[ChuckS]

If you aren't using the service manual here is the TS section for WH won't start...

[Nathan]

[Good morning..thank you for the diagram I’ll look it over and start working on it as soon as it warms up a little. I’ve tried to do the water on/off for awhile now but nothing yet..quick question? How would I turn the main power off to the control panel? I was thinking of just shutting everything off and down and drain all my water and just start over! What do you think?

[ChuckS]

The control for the IW60 should have an On/Off on it.. if not then simply locate the 12 volt DC fuse in the power center panel for the water heater and remove it for a minute an reinstall..

Draining the water out... IMO isn't going to help at all with your issues...

IF you can use a multimeter and perform the voltage measurement on the board then you should be able to make some progress...

If you don't have the service manual this link has the PDF available for DL

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/v/vsp...W60-Manual.pdf

[Nathan]

Now I did it!! I rebooted my BCM to try to figure out my hot water heater IW 60 control panel because it won’t turn on or off inside my fifth wheel. It shows 103° but it is stuck in the blue LED light won’t come on. So after I reset my BCM I went to my in command panel turn my heat up And now My furnace won’t kick on because I can set the heat up and down to 80 add to 55° but my lower number to set to automatically kick my furnace off once it reaches that low Temperature that I have it set to is not being displayed on the control panel! Does anybody have any idea how to get my heat temperature in Fahrenheit and my cool temperature number to display on my incommand panel?

[LHaven]

This response totally flummoxes me. It sounds like your water heater temperature is controlled by your inCommand system, which is something I've never heard of, but I can't rule it out. And I can't figure out what your furnace settings have to do with your water heater. But the one question I can probably answer is how do you change the units from Celsius to Fahrenheit – that's in the settings section of inCommand and applies to every readout.

[ChuckS]

The Airxcel Iw60 is NOT controlled via the In Command.. it is not wired at all to the BCM..

To clear the issue you have now created with your In Command HVAC you need to..
1. turn off battery power
2. remove shore power
3. wait a minute
4. turn battery power on
5. turn shower power on

*** By removing both sources of 12 volts power from battery and converter this lets the Zone 1 control module on your roof A/C reset its relays..

Furnace control is from the rooftop Zone 1 unit



this should do a hard reset on everything... and your IW60 is controlled via its own separate control panel.. In Command has zero to do with the water heater

[Nathan]

Hey good morning Chuck and everybody else that’s reading this. I just wanted to let everybody know I appreciate everyone’s help once again and Chuck I went ahead and reset everything that I could possibly imagine last night and I finally got everything working again all at once and put back together in a timely fashion around 8 o’clock last night! It was a little chill But I was so excited to have my hot water heater back and my furnace kicked back on and both my control panel is working again so that fueled me!
I went about the opposite steps like you just mentioned Chuck in your last text of rigging down..

I found my BCM and reset that then I went out shut my propane off..then came back in to shut off all my electricity then hit all the main breakers..once I turned those off I went back out and turned my batteries off along with my solar box and converter..then I headed over to my hook up from the park and shut off the main breaker there.

Then went back the same way I came out turning everything back on! And last but not least turning my gas on after all my electrical was back on and running!
It worked like a dream and I learned sooo much in just that time!
Very thankful to have everyone’s thoughts and opinions blindfolded because I know how hard it is to visualize someone else’s Lodge or Camper so I want to give thanks once again and I hope y’all have a blessed day!
Happy camping

[ChuckS]

Nathan - for future reference with the In Command system and HVAC control..

The BCM and your Display tablet communicate back and forth up to both Roof mounted A/C unit control boards and gateways... This is done across some telephone cables you will see on BOTH the Display and BCM..

These lines are for CANBUS communication control.. The signal sent is a series of Hi/Lo commands to tell the roof control boards what the In Command wants..

Your Inside temperature is also routed via Two remote temp sensors mounted inside.. one in the BR and one in the Main living area.. These remote tempo sensors tell either Zone 1 or Zone 2 what the ambient inside temp is for their area..

Furnace control is also controlled via Zone 1 ONLY roof A/C control board and it sends signal down to the furnace to either run or turn off via two blue signal wires on the Zone 1 control board.

There are a series of relays on the gateway for each roof unit and sometimes one will hang up and note respond to the CANBUS signals.. Hence the HVAC system doesnt work correctly..

The roof A/C mounted control boards always have 12 volts DC power to them even if all HVAC function's are off

The only way to clear a relay issue is to remove battery power and shore power... Shore power runs the converter and of course you still have 12 volts DC on the inside power center BUS running 12 volts up to those roof units.

Sometimes you have to wait a few minutes with all power removed to hopefully clear the conditions

Resetting the BCM using its reset switch is ONLY resetting the BCM and CANBUS lines.. 12 volt power IS STILL maintained on those roof control boards.. hence this is why you gotta remove all 12 volt sources...

File this info away for a rainy day - the In Command system has gotten better but it doesnt play well when you have power glitches, etc

[Nathan]

Perfect thank you sir!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

your IW60 is controlled via its own separate control panel.. In Command has zero to do with the water heater

Well, my inCommand controls everything on my "traditional' WH that it is possible to control: on or off, gas or electric. But I had no experience with what other stuff they might have added to it for a temperature-controllable, on-demand heater.

[mmiille]

We have a tankless heater also. It gets hot just fine and half way through the shower it turns off. No hot water. If I shut off the water and wait a few seconds to turn it back on, it gets hot again. But it takes a minute or so. What causes that?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by mmiille

We have a tankless heater also. It gets hot just fine and half way through the shower it turns off. No hot water. If I shut off the water and wait a few seconds to turn it back on, it gets hot again. But it takes a minute or so. What causes that?

Are you turning off the showerhead to conserve water? If so, you're disrupting the minimum water flow through the water heater and it's working as designed.

If you're not shutting off the shower head, check to see if the water flow through the shower head is equal to or greather than the "water heater minimum flow rate" to maintain operation.

As an example, if the water heater requires 2 GPM water flow to trigger operation and your shower head flow rate is 2 GPM, you may be "slowing the flow" when you adjust the cold water down to compensate for temperature changes. Or, if you're turning the shower head off while soaping up, you are slowing the flow, triggering the water heater to shut off. Once that happens, you have to "start over" by turning on water flow greater than the "trigger flow rate" to "wake up the water heater and get it working again"....

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Well, my inCommand controls everything on my "traditional' WH that it is possible to control: on or off, gas or electric. But I had no experience with what other stuff they might have added to it for a temperature-controllable, on-demand heater.

The OEM IW60RL comes with a digital panel and optional panel for controlling the water temp settings as well as whether or not you want the recirculation pump to run

The IW60 doesn’t have the recirculation pump feature but still has settings for the desired water heat temp

Your Alpine has rhe SW12DEL dual mode and is controlled via the In Command tablet

Your water heater temp settings are.. of course controlled via the two thermostats mounted outside on the WH..

Alpine has also discontinued using the Airxcel IW60RL and the newest model will now have the Girard On Demand WH instead

[4Buck]

Is Girard a better option?

[mmiille]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Are you turning off the showerhead to conserve water? If so, you're disrupting the minimum water flow through the water heater and it's working as designed.

If you're not shutting off the shower head, check to see if the water flow through the shower head is equal to or greather than the "water heater minimum flow rate" to maintain operation.

As an example, if the water heater requires 2 GPM water flow to trigger operation and your shower head flow rate is 2 GPM, you may be "slowing the flow" when you adjust the cold water down to compensate for temperature changes. Or, if you're turning the shower head off while soaping up, you are slowing the flow, triggering the water heater to shut off. Once that happens, you have to "start over" by turning on water flow greater than the "trigger flow rate" to "wake up the water heater and get it working again"....

So I got a new shower head, oxygenics, and it has flows up to 1.8 gpm. The water heater flow required is 1.0 gpm. The water gets hot and is hot for 4 minutes or so and then goes cold. I can turn off the flow and it will get hot again and stay hot for a few minutes and then get cold again. No error code seen. Any ideas?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by mmiille

So I got a new shower head, oxygenics, and it has flows up to 1.8 gpm. The water heater flow required is 1.0 gpm. The water gets hot and is hot for 4 minutes or so and then goes cold. I can turn off the flow and it will get hot again and stay hot for a few minutes and then get cold again. No error code seen. Any ideas?

Just for "grins" get in the shower, turn on the Oxygenics showerhead, then turn on the hot water faucet in the sink as well. Adjust the water temperature in the shower so it's comfortable and "wait that 4 minutes to see if it gets cold... If it does, it's not a "flow problem".. If the showerhead is still putting out warm water after 5 or 6 minutes, then I'd suspect you've found your "minimum flow rate issue"....

As a "observation", the Oxygenics specifications say, "Up to 1.8 GPM flow"... At 60 PSI with a 3/4" supply line and a "wide open shower faucet control" that may be true... in an RV, with 1/2" PEX, 40 PSI pressure, a "Dura-maybe" shower faucet with a built in flow restrictor and anti-siphon valve, I'd bet a beer that you're not getting "the maximum 1.8GPM flow rate from the showerhead.....

ADDED: Here's the "flow rate chart" from the Oxygenics website. Note that with an "unrestricted water supply, you only get the 1.8 GPM flow rate at 80PSI. At 50PSI, the showerhead only flows about 1.4GPM and at 20PSI, it's down to 1GPM. I run my water pressure regulator (and my FloJet pump) at 40PSI, so my Oxygenics delivers around 1.25GPM. Now, add all the other "flow restrictors in the faucet, the PEX tubing, etc and you probably aren't getting close to the 1.8GPM that's advertised...

[Troy965]

Chucks if my surburban screen is blank does that mean I'm in lock out mode ? Also I do not have a fuse that is labeled hot water heater would you have any idea which fuse it is ?

[LHaven]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the electric water heater is an AC appliance, so it will be a breaker, not a fuse.