RV Drivers License

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

The statement is the Illinois Driver classification book says:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

So, the law very clearly says for a Class B license "not in excess of 10,000 pounds" for the trailer, not GVWR. But it would probably be a big exception for the state to weigh an RV, but in an accident I'm sure your insurance company might question your classification, as I've seen someone say before.

You highlight the odd part of the Illinois( and probably other states because they follow the national guidelines) license classification for fifthwheel owners: Under 26,000 GVWR has no mention of trailer(Class C), Over 26,000 pounds GVWR(Class B) has the above mentioned restriction of 10,000 pound trailer weight. So, if you go buy the big heavy duty 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 30,000, for your ALPINE or Montana, you need to get a Class A license. Seems the permutations are endless, but the good part, is that all you have to do for a RV driver, license upgrade is take a written test and driving test with the vehicle/trailer combo. Nothing serious like the CDL requirements.

That book is not the law. That book is a paraphrased guide book.

In my state, the guide book has similar statements... So does the back of my license for that matter.... However, Oklahoma Title 47 is "the law" and is a bit more specific than that.

Not saying you're right. Not saying you're wrong.... All I'm saying is understand the true law. The whole thing.... Including definitions section and scope.

[EricLynnAllison]

When considering an upgrade to your license check for exemptions. Ohio exempts recreation vehicles.

(Q) "Recreational vehicle" means a vehicular portable structure that meets all of the following conditions:

(1) It is designed for the sole purpose of recreational travel.

(2) It is not used for the purpose of engaging in business for profit.

(3) It is not used for the purpose of engaging in intrastate commerce.

(4) It is not used for the purpose of commerce as defined in 49 C.F.R. 383.5, as amended.

(5) It is not regulated by the public utilities commission pursuant to Chapter 4905., 4921., or 4923. of the Revised Code.

(6) It is classed as one of the following:

(a) "Travel trailer" means a nonself-propelled recreational vehicle that does not exceed an overall length of thirty-five feet, exclusive of bumper and tongue or coupling, and contains less than three hundred twenty square feet of space when erected on site. "Travel trailer" includes a tent-type fold-out camping trailer as defined in section 4517.01 of the Revised Code.

(b) "Motor home" means a self-propelled recreational vehicle that has no fifth wheel and is constructed with permanently installed facilities for cold storage, cooking and consuming of food, and for sleeping.

(c) "Truck camper" means a nonself-propelled recreational vehicle that does not have wheels for road use and is designed to be placed upon and attached to a motor vehicle. "Truck camper" does not include truck covers that consist of walls and a roof, but do not have floors and facilities enabling them to be used as a dwelling.

(d) "Fifth wheel trailer" means a vehicle that is of such size and weight as to be movable without a special highway permit, that has a gross trailer area of four hundred square feet or less, that is constructed with a raised forward section that allows a bi-level floor plan, and that is designed to be towed by a vehicle equipped with a fifth-wheel hitch ordinarily installed in the bed of a truck.

(e) "Park trailer" means a vehicle that is commonly known as a park model recreational vehicle, meets the American national standard institute standard A119.5 (1988) for park trailers, is built on a single chassis, has a gross trailer area of four hundred square feet or less when set up, is designed for seasonal or temporary living quarters, and may be connected to utilities necessary for the operation of installed features and appliances.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

The statement is the Illinois Driver classification book says:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

So, the law very clearly says for a Class B license "not in excess of 10,000 pounds" for the trailer, not GVWR. But it would probably be a big exception for the state to weigh an RV, but in an accident I'm sure your insurance company might question your classification, as I've seen someone say before.

You highlight the odd part of the Illinois( and probably other states because they follow the national guidelines) license classification for fifthwheel owners: Under 26,000 GVWR has no mention of trailer(Class C), Over 26,000 pounds GVWR(Class B) has the above mentioned restriction of 10,000 pound trailer weight. So, if you go buy the big heavy duty 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 30,000, for your ALPINE or Montana, you need to get a Class A license. Seems the permutations are endless, but the good part, is that all you have to do for a RV driver, license upgrade is take a written test and driving test with the vehicle/trailer combo. Nothing serious like the CDL requirements.

I don't know about your book but the one we have in Texas gets a lot of RV owners in trouble because they don't read the complete text. If you only read the section for class A or B it appears that unless the combined GCWR is in excess of 26K you don't need the classification, BUT read the section of class C that I've highlighted it throws a big kink in that thinking.

Class A Driver License
A Class A driver license permits a person to drive:
1. Any vehicle or combination of vehicles described under a Class B or Class C driver license; and
2. A vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001
lbs. or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess

of 10,000 lbs.

Class B Driver License
A Class B driver license permits a person to drive:
1. Any vehicle included in Class C;
2. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more and any such vehicle towing either a vehicle with a GVWR that does not exceed 10,000 lbs. or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lbs.; and

3. A bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more including the driver.

Class C Driver License
A Class C driver license permits a person to drive:
1. A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that are not included in Class A or Class B; and
2. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 26,001 lbs. towing a trailer not to exceed 10,000 lbs. GVWR or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lbs.

[allmi01]

I've read the text of the Illinois law and I plan on and am stufying for a class A non-commercial license. My Excursion GCWR is 20,000. While that is less than the 26,000 for a class A, and my current TT is GVWR of 10,000 which is again is less that the class A requirement, my 350 pushes the limits. If I upgrade to a 5th wheel rig, I definitely hit the over 10,000 for a trailer so I'm going class A.

It never hurts to over license.

BTW, I checked with my insurance carrier and he indicated I woudl be covered even without the non-commercial CDL. There is a lot to be said for a stand-up insurance carrier.

My .02 cents worth.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by allmi01

I've read the text of the Illinois law and I plan on and am stufying for a class A non-commercial license. My Excursion GCWR is 20,000.....

Just one point of clarity that I will add, is that your Excursion has no GCWR are in the eyes of the law.

[diugo]

This is really quite an eye opener, because virtually every modern fifth wheel offered by Keystone has a GVWR in excess of 10,000 pounds (including my puny one). Sure makes me glad I chose South Dakota over Texas!

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by allmi01

I've read the text of the Illinois law and I plan on and am stufying for a class A non-commercial license. My Excursion GCWR is 20,000. While that is less than the 26,000 for a class A, and my current TT is GVWR of 10,000 which is again is less that the class A requirement, my 350 pushes the limits. If I upgrade to a 5th wheel rig, I definitely hit the over 10,000 for a trailer so I'm going class A.

It never hurts to over license.

BTW, I checked with my insurance carrier and he indicated I woudl be covered even without the non-commercial CDL. There is a lot to be said for a stand-up insurance carrier.

My .02 cents worth.

I am not a drinker but a friend of mine stated that he is giving up his class A license because of the legal limit for driving under the influence is .04 instead of.08. You may want to check this out I am not sure about his comment but I may be something worth while to check out.

Jim W

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Jim W

I am not a drinker but a friend of mine stated that he is giving up his class A license because of the legal limit for driving under the influence is .04 instead of.08. You may want to check this out I am not sure about his comment but I may be something worth while to check out.

Jim W

This is true with a CDL...

However, I have no idea if the same applies with a non-commericial class A.... They are, after all, non-commercial.

[ctpd814]

The .04 limit is for operating a commercial vehicle. The limit is still .08 even if you have a cdl if you are not operating a commercial vehicle.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by ctpd814

The .04 limit is for operating a commercial vehicle. The limit is still .08 even if you have a cdl if you are not operating a commercial vehicle.

It is zero tolerance while operating a commercial vehicle. It is .04 for a commercial driver otherwise.

I believe I misspoke. Sorry. I will research a bit further, I think the zero tolerance is they sit you for 24 hours with any detection of alcohol. .04 is DWI.

[allmi01]

I don't want to start a flame war but all vehicles that can tow have a GCWR specified by the manufacturer. It's in the owners manual. This is in addition to the GVWR and GAWR ratings on the sticker on the door post.

Most if us (yes I am guilty) don't bother to read this section in the owners manual or towing supplement but it is there.

The trick is that the Illinois law states over 26,000 GCWR is class B / class A territory as I remember it. That is why I decided to go the class A route due to the GCWR of my F350 even though my current TT is 10,000 GVWR. Future 5th wheels will definitely be over the 10,000 limit so I figured to do this once and be done.

Now the big question, will the Sec State folks at the DL facility consider my current rig of the proper class for the class A test? We'll see I guess.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by ctpd814

The .04 limit is for operating a commercial vehicle. The limit is still .08 even if you have a cdl if you are not operating a commercial vehicle.

If you are CDL licensed, the .04 limit applies whether you are "on the clock" or not.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by allmi01

I don't want to start a flame war but all vehicles that can tow have a GCWR specified by the manufacturer. It's in the owners manual. This is in addition to the GVWR and GAWR ratings on the sticker on the door post.

Most if us (yes I am guilty) don't bother to read this section in the owners manual or towing supplement but it is there.

The trick is that the Illinois law states over 26,000 GCWR is class B / class A territory as I remember it. That is why I decided to go the class A route due to the GCWR of my F350 even though my current TT is 10,000 GVWR. Future 5th wheels will definitely be over the 10,000 limit so I figured to do this once and be done.

Now the big question, will the Sec State folks at the DL facility consider my current rig of the proper class for the class A test? We'll see I guess.

I do not want to start a flame war either. I just want to help you understand where you are mis-understandthing things.

Your owners manual GCWR is not recognized by any authority. It is not "real". It is for manufacturer recommendation and warranty purposes only. Your vehicle has NO recongized GCWR.

If you read through the vehicle code, you will likely find that it accounts for this fact - something paraphrased as, "in the absence of a GCWR, the sum total of the GVWR plus the GTWR will apply"...

Suppose you drive a SRW 1T with a GVWR of 11K.

Pull a 5000 GTWR utility trailer and your GCWR is recognized as 16K (11K GVWR plus the 5K GTWR)

Take that same 1T and pull a 14K GTWR 5er and your GCWR is 25K.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by SAD

If you are CDL licensed, the .04 limit applies whether you are "on the clock" or not.

True dat'

[diugo]

Originally Posted by SAD

Your owners manual GCWR is not recognized by any authority. It is not "real". It is for manufacturer recommendation and warranty purposes only. Your vehicle has NO recongized GCWR.

That may be the case at the moment, but there is obviously interest in getting the GCWR onto the placard:

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...cwr-definition

[ctpd814]

Originally Posted by SAD

If you are CDL licensed, the .04 limit applies whether you are "on the clock" or not.

Your right you don't have to be on the clock but you have to be operating a Commercial Motor Vehicle.

BAC Standards:

The FMCSA has established 0.04% as the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level at or above which a CDL commercial motor vehicle operator who is required to have a CDL is deemed to be driving under the influence of alcohol and subject to the disqualification sanctions in the Federal regulations. Most States have established a BAC level of .08% as the level at or above which a person operating a non-commercial motor vehicle is deemed to be driving under the influence of alochol.

This is where you can find it:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registratio...ng/cdl/cdl.htm

[howdy]

Originally Posted by SAD

If you are CDL licensed, the .04 limit applies whether you are "on the clock" or not.

Not in Ca. When you are in your personal non commercial vehicle it is .08.

Right from the lips of a CHP commercial enforcement officer. He came in for a meet and greet with us commercial drivers and it was one of his trick questions. All of us thought it was .04 all the time. We were wrong. Obviously a lot of people under that assumption or he would not have asked it.

[Javi]

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registratio...ng/cdl/cdl.htm

BAC Standards:
The FMCSA has established 0.04% as the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level at or above which a CDL commercial motor vehicle operator who is required to have a CDL is deemed to be driving under the influence of alcohol and subject to the disqualification sanctions in the Federal regulations. Most States have established a BAC level of .08% as the level at or above which a person operating a non-commercial motor vehicle is deemed to be driving under the influence of alochol.
Employer Notifications:
Within 30 days of a conviction for any traffic violation, except parking, a driver must notify his/her employer, regardless of the nature of the violation or the type of vehicle which was driven at the time.
If a driver's license is suspended, revoked, canceled, or if he/she is disqualified from driving, his/her employer must be notified. The notification must be made by the end of the next business day following receipt of the notice of the suspension, revocation, cancellation, lost privilege or disqualification.
Employers may not knowingly use a driver who has more than one license or whose license is suspended, revoked or canceled, or is disqualified from driving. Violation of this requirement may result in civil or criminal penalties.
Notification of previous employment:
All employers shall request and all person's applying for employment as a commercial motor vehicle operator shall provide, employment history information for the 10 years preceding the date the application is submitted. The request shall be made at the time of application for employment.
Major Violations while operating a motor vehicle

1. Being under the influence of alcohol as prescribed by State law.
2. Being under the influence of a controlled substance.
3. Having an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or greater while operating a CMV
4. Refusing to take an alcohol test as required by a State or jurisdiction under its implied consent laws or regulations.
5. Leaving the scene of an accident.
6. Using the vehicle to commit a felony other than a felony described in number 9 of this table.
7. Driving a CMV when, as a result of prior violations committed operating a CMV, the driver's CDL is revoked, suspended, or canceled, or the driver is disqualified from operating a CMV.
8. Causing a fatality through the negligent operation of a CMV, including but not limited to the crimes of motor vehicle manslaughter, homicide by motor vehicle and negligent homicide.
9. Using the vehicle in the commission of a felony involving manufacturing, distributing, or dispensing a controlled substance.

[howdy]

Originally Posted by Javi

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registratio...ng/cdl/cdl.htm

BAC Standards:
[*]Having an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or greater while operating a CMV

Exactly....If you have a CDL and are driving your Toyota Camry and not "operating a CMV" you are not held to the .,04, but the .08.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by howdy

Exactly....If you have a CDL and are driving your Toyota Camry and not "operating a CMV" you are not held to the .,04, but the .08.

However, states have the right to implement more stringent standards and some may well have..