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Old 11-18-2019, 10:12 AM   #21
ChrisB
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we have a 43 foot toy hauler with the Cummings onan 5500. it runs on gas from a tank located in our rig. when we took it home from the dealer they put some fuel in the tank. as we don't normally use the Genset, the fuel fouled and gummed up the carburetor. finally got rid of all the bad fuel and tore the carb apart and cleaned it up. Got it running smooth as silk but you have to utilze a hertz meter to make sure you get the loaded and unloaded rpms lined out. otherwise anything using the power your making will not run properly. Its not overly complicated but can be daunting with out the meter. I love mine, it runs smooth and can barely be heard from inside the camper. outside we were about 20 ft away and I could not hear it either. also we can run both ac units and anything else we need in the camper. water heater and fridge. just keeps running same speed. I don't worry about the exhaust fumes either, but our camper has a Co2 detector inside as well. great unit but don't let gas set in it and use stabil or seafoam additive. Ethanol free will last best, but hard to find.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:16 PM   #22
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I wish to thank all of you who chose to reply to my request for information and advice. As a new member to the Keystone forum I must say I was very impressed by the number of responses and the great breadth of knowledge that was imparted based on your experiences.

In conclusion, I would love to be able to just buy a couple of Honda 2000 generators along with two of the micro air easy start 364 units were it not for the high likelihood of voiding my new warranty on both air-conditioning units with a third-party modification. With that being said, I guess the best advice is to go ahead with a permanent installation of an Onan 5500 unit.

The next question is should I go with propane or gasoline? I hate to burn through all of my propane, but I have no idea how you would fill that Onan with gasoline with the tight quarters that it fits into. Is there a separate fuel tank?
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:20 PM   #23
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ChrisB...where is your fuel tank located?
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:57 PM   #24
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Benbill,

You've mentioned the warranty a couple of times.... Let's look at warranty considerations for a moment:

Assuming you didn't buy an extended warranty,

1. The ONLY warranty you have on the air conditioners is the Dometic warranty. Dometic 15K heat pumps run about $1000 each for a replacement top unit. That's $2000 if they both "failed completely".

2. Honda 2200 generators run about $1000 each. That's $2000 for the two generators and $50 for the parallel cable. Or you can, at times, find a complete setup, 2 generators, 2 covers and the parallel cable for $2000 on sale.

The cost to buy an Onan 5500 is around $4000 and then you've got installation on top of that.

Considering the "actual costs" you can buy the Honda setup, run one air conditioner and see if it fits your needs for half the cost of the Onan. If, in the future you think you need both air conditioners to be comfortable, you can buy the two "micro-aire kits" for $400 and void your warranty. Then, if, in the first 2 years, you have an issue with either air conditioner, you've still got the "extra $2000" in the bank to pay for a replacement top unit. Chances of both top units going out during warranty is remote, but even if you had to replace both of them, you'd still have that "other $1000" left in the bank....

In other words, you seem concerned with voiding your A/C warranty. Even if you do, it's still "money ahead" having to buy a replacement. You'd have the money left over from the "Honda option" to pay for the air conditioner replacement....

In actuality, the Dometic warranty on Air Conditioners is (I believe) 2 years. Assuming your trailer is 6 months old, then 25% of that "warranty" is already expired. You'd be amazed at how fast 2 years goes by, and at the end of that time, you have no warranty anyway....

So, IMHO, don't consider "voiding my warranty" as being a good reason to spend $4000 to save $2000 (even if you have to replace both air conditioners)....
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:22 PM   #25
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JRTJH. Thank you for all the time you took to lay out your voice of reason presentation on the different options. I must admit that I had no idea how much the 15,000 W AC/heat pumps would cost to replace, so that opens my eyes a bit more as to what the risk reward might be with the scenarios that you have laid out. We did purchase an extended warranty for an additional five years on most components. Maybe I need to call Dometic and find out if they would void the warranty if I added the Easy Start 364 units. I think I know the answer, but it never hurts to ask.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:26 PM   #26
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This is purely my opinion based on what I’ve read and heard, not on personal experience.

There is a reason those micro air soft starts will void your warranty. It is because they break air conditioners. Maybe not right away, but after a year or two of use, watch out. My guess is that they produce a low voltage condition with your AC compressor that wears it out over time.

Like I said, this is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan X View Post
This is purely my opinion based on what I’ve read and heard, not on personal experience.

There is a reason those micro air soft starts will void your warranty. It is because they break air conditioners. Maybe not right away, but after a year or two of use, watch out. My guess is that they produce a low voltage condition with your AC compressor that wears it out over time.

Like I said, this is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth.
Not to get into the "what if's" but Micro-Aire offers a "Double Down Warranty" for $25 per unit. That warranty covers the air conditioner compressor for the length of the manufacturer's warranty time frame and will pay for repair/replacement if the manufacturer refuses to pay for a compressor problem. Cost to the OP would be $50 for two Dometic heat pumps and would negate any issue with "Dometic refusal to cover the compressor failure".. There isn't much else that they Micro-Aire affects other than compressor start/operation...

https://www.microair.net/collections...14020945215572
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:11 AM   #28
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Here is another option.
While I wouldn't use that generator, it is noisy, one of the many copy cats 4500 with remote start would be perfect. - https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect...or/p99265.html

I would think you could just lower it and run it, a little more work but you save $$$. Also if there is a problem easy to replace/fix.

I haven't done this but I am thinking about doing it. With the Gen Prep you will have the wiring to put in a 50amp plug up front if they didn't do that already do that.

Downside of the LP gen is that they will eat through those small tanks fast.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:16 AM   #29
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One other thing to mention. Is the Honda 2000 setup only gets you a 30-amp plug. That may or may not be enough to run 2 A/Cs. Same with the 4500 inverter
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:48 AM   #30
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Sorry but I have to state the obvious here.

What motivates someone to "Rube Goldberg" to "save money" on a rig by devaluing and possibly creating a safety hazard? You take a rig that what, maybe $70-$100K and you cut the floor open? Really? This seems like a good idea to someone?

The floor is OPEN to the elements now. First drive in the rain should be interesting, what will be more interesting will be the reaction of the dealer when he tries to make a warranty claim.

Just amazing, cut open the floor, add a winch, cables, pulleys, pins, etc.

I won't apologize for my opinion. I think this is one of the dumbest modifications I've seen.

JMHO
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Sorry but I have to state the obvious here.

What motivates someone to "Rube Goldberg" to "save money" on a rig by devaluing and possibly creating a safety hazard? You take a rig that what, maybe $70-$100K and you cut the floor open? Really? This seems like a good idea to someone?

The floor is OPEN to the elements now. First drive in the rain should be interesting, what will be more interesting will be the reaction of the dealer when he tries to make a warranty claim.

Just amazing, cut open the floor, add a winch, cables, pulleys, pins, etc.

I won't apologize for my opinion. I think this is one of the dumbest modifications I've seen.

JMHO
Ingenuity!
With factory Onan installed in that area the bottom is also open.
But do agree that's not the type of generator I'd ever use for my rv, construction site yes.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:09 AM   #32
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Ingenuity!
With factory Onan installed in that area the bottom is also open.
But do agree that's not the type of generator I'd ever use for my rv, construction site yes.
I wasn't aware of the open floor design. When I watched the vid it looked to me like the floor was opened up with a dick grinder and they didn't even bother to paint the raw metal edge. Is that the way the factory preps it?
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:19 AM   #33
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I agree but instead of $2000 you can do the same with Champion for half the cost of the Hondas. Champion has a great rep as well. On sale I saw these yesterday online with free shipping. That has been my setup for years. I do run 0nly ethanol free gas in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Benbill,

You've mentioned the warranty a couple of times.... Let's look at warranty considerations for a moment:

Assuming you didn't buy an extended warranty,

1. The ONLY warranty you have on the air conditioners is the Dometic warranty. Dometic 15K heat pumps run about $1000 each for a replacement top unit. That's $2000 if they both "failed completely".

2. Honda 2200 generators run about $1000 each. That's $2000 for the two generators and $50 for the parallel cable. Or you can, at times, find a complete setup, 2 generators, 2 covers and the parallel cable for $2000 on sale.

The cost to buy an Onan 5500 is around $4000 and then you've got installation on top of that.

Considering the "actual costs" you can buy the Honda setup, run one air conditioner and see if it fits your needs for half the cost of the Onan. If, in the future you think you need both air conditioners to be comfortable, you can buy the two "micro-aire kits" for $400 and void your warranty. Then, if, in the first 2 years, you have an issue with either air conditioner, you've still got the "extra $2000" in the bank to pay for a replacement top unit. Chances of both top units going out during warranty is remote, but even if you had to replace both of them, you'd still have that "other $1000" left in the bank....

In other words, you seem concerned with voiding your A/C warranty. Even if you do, it's still "money ahead" having to buy a replacement. You'd have the money left over from the "Honda option" to pay for the air conditioner replacement....

In actuality, the Dometic warranty on Air Conditioners is (I believe) 2 years. Assuming your trailer is 6 months old, then 25% of that "warranty" is already expired. You'd be amazed at how fast 2 years goes by, and at the end of that time, you have no warranty anyway....

So, IMHO, don't consider "voiding my warranty" as being a good reason to spend $4000 to save $2000 (even if you have to replace both air conditioners)....
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:32 AM   #34
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I agree but instead of $2000 you can do the same with Champion for half the cost of the Hondas. Champion has a great rep as well. On sale I saw these yesterday online with free shipping. That has been my setup for years. I do run 0nly ethanol free gas in them.
Tractor Supply has the "new" suitcase style Champion 2000 watt generators (1700 watts sustained load) in their Black Friday ad for $379 each. That's $70 off their regular price.

I haven't done any "internet shopping" for comparisons, but 5 years ago when I bought my Champion setup, the older style "box style inverters" I paid $299 each on a clearance sale. The store was out, so they special ordered them and what came in was the "latest style" not the "clearance style". Anyway, $760 is a good price for a pair of Champion inverter generators.

Along those same lines, Harbor Freight as an "unlimited coupon" for 15% off with no restrictions, so for the next 4 days, Predator generators are 15% off the sale price, making them the lowest price inverter generator I've seen... In reality, that 15% coupon, if you want, will make the 1 year exchange warranty "free"...
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:36 AM   #35
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More important to look at the amperage required.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:43 AM   #36
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As to the opening at the bottom, as mentioned with the "factory" install it is open also. I believe that someone mentioned that you could save the cut out and put it back. I was thinking you could make a bottom and simply put the gen on it. Then lift the entire thing up.

Devalue the rig? Not sure how, these thing devalue just by looking at them. The dealer actually thought it was a good idea.

I have a single Honda 2000, that I had from my pickup camper. I changed out the A/C on that so the Honda would run it no problem. So, most likely I will get the 2nd Honda. Having a lift to put them on is something to think about though.

The wireless start is nice to have in the morning or at night... especially when it is raining.
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:16 PM   #37
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Let me back up a little first, I had 3 TT and bought two new Honda 2000 with
the paralle connection for the last one.

In 2015 we bought a new gas Class A with a Onega Generator it was fine, but
the A/C unit in the bedroom was so loud we rarely ran that A/C unit.

Come to 2019 sold the MH in April and in October bought a 2019 Keystone Cougar
30 RLS 5th wheel (with one A/C unit).

I then purchased two used Honda 2000 generators and a paralle cable setup.

I paid $700 for each of them and $35.00 for the paralle unit.

A oil change and a new spark plug on each and away we go. They are quiet
and will run about 4 hours on each tank of fuel.

My reason for the two Honda 2000's over a 3000 is the weight. Each of mine
are about 34 pounds and the 3000 is about 135 pounds. I have a bad back
and can handle the 34 pounds, but not the 135 pounds.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:00 AM   #38
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We’ve used the Honda EU3000 on a previous Trailer; our last two toy haulers have been factory installed with the Oman 5500. We LOVE the Oman! It is quiet, powerful, and fuel efficient. One thing I didn’t see discussed was “auto-start”. I don’t know if it included in a factory prep, but our built in 5500 will monitor the battery levels and start itself when battery voltage drops below a set point. On a cold night, if the heater pulls the batteries down the generator will self start, charge the batteries for an hour then shut itself off and continue to monitor. For me, that’s worth the price. I hated going outside to start our Honda, add fuel at 3 am, trying to keep it running in the rain, and having to chain it down so it didn’t get borrowed.

If you can afford it, buy the 5500 and install it the right way. You’ll be happy you did and you will get your money back when you sell the rig.
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:52 PM   #39
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how much propane does the Onan 5500 use? I only have 2 30 lb bottles.
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Old 11-25-2019, 04:06 PM   #40
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how much propane does the Onan 5500 use? I only have 2 30 lb bottles.
Our toy hauler has two 30 gallon gasoline tanks and our generator runs on one of those tanks. Sorry, I can’t provide any information on propane use. Maybe other forum members have some experience that would help.
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