Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-01-2013, 07:53 AM   #1
Jimmyk61
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Smile Close to jumping in

Hi all
I am very interested in a 195RB and after much research I hope have it right. I have a brand new 2013 Tacoma V6 with factory tow package. I am getting a WD hitch and brake control added also. The Tacoma has a 6500# tow capacity and a 650# tongue weight 11,100# total capacity. We will be towing in Texas on 90% flat roads. If anyone could weigh in that has a similar setup or anything I should know about the 195RB.

Thanks

Moderator's Note -
This post moved from Travel Trailers to Towing section.
Jimmyk61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #2
Douger
Junior Member
 
Douger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6
Tacoma pulling a 2510RB

I just bought a Passport 2510RB and was not sure what to expect from the Tacoma (2010 V6 SR5 Prerunner TRD). It seemed to do just fine going through low mountains (foothills of the Smokies). The only problem I had was backing it into the drive. It is uphilll, first time, with a manual transmission (6 speed). Had a very hot and smelly clutch by the time I got it up there. I will do things differently next time. But on the road I was very pleased with how it pulled and stopped. Not an acid test for sure but...
__________________
Doug & Trish
+++ Teddy Bear, a Maltese-Yorkie
Service Connected 100% Disabled Veteran
2013-Feb Passport 2510RB
2013 Ford F-250 XLT
Douger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2013, 06:57 PM   #3
Festus2
Site Team
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 7,015
Douger -
I am wondering if you could share with us how is it that you came to determine that your 2010 Tacoma has the capacity and capability to safely tow the Passport 2510 RB. What weights and figures did you use for both the TT and the TV in arriving at this decision?
__________________
2008 Cougar 5th Wheel 27RKS
2005 2500 GMC Duramax
Festus2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #4
Douger
Junior Member
 
Douger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6
2510 with a Tacoma

Festus, I got the 6,500 capacity for the Tacoma from the dealer. Most V6 Tacomas have a much lower capacity unless they have the TRD package that bumps it up to 6,500. The 2510 dry is under 5,000. Coming home from the dealer it pulled nicer than the popup that I had had.
Don't know what the problem is, I have 1,500 of leeway for clothes, pillows, propane, etc. What is your concern?
__________________
Doug & Trish
+++ Teddy Bear, a Maltese-Yorkie
Service Connected 100% Disabled Veteran
2013-Feb Passport 2510RB
2013 Ford F-250 XLT
Douger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #5
Douger
Junior Member
 
Douger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6
Signs that the TV is too small

Festus,
Question, when I'm pulling the 2510RB with Tacoma, what will I experience that is telling me that the TV is too small for the TT? I would like to know what to look for that is a sign that the Tacoma will not work as a TV.
One last question, since the manufacturer put a tow rating of 6,500 lbs and Toyota "is the only manufacturer to have adopted SAE standard J2807 (copied from the 2012 Guide to Towing - Trailer Life, p15). I would also have to believe that the auto manufacturer wants to cover their a** so that the ratings are well within the capability of the vehicle. Just asking questions, I don't know.
Thanks for your time.
__________________
Doug & Trish
+++ Teddy Bear, a Maltese-Yorkie
Service Connected 100% Disabled Veteran
2013-Feb Passport 2510RB
2013 Ford F-250 XLT
Douger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #6
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
Douger,

I'd be happy to try to help you decipher the "codes" and "magic" on trying to determine how much truck and trailer you can manage. First, though, we need to determine exactly what truck you have and what trailer you're planning to pull. By "what truck" I mean reg cab, access cab or double cab, what tow package it had (specific tow package, not what is included in the TRD add-ons). What your axle ratings are (from the door jam sticker) what tires you have on the truck by size and designation, what your payload and GVWR are, what the owner's manual says your GCWR is and what optional equipment you have on the truck. Once we get that and match it to the trailer you're looking at, we can get down to numbers, weights and performance.

If you are interested, provide the information above (from your door jam sticker, owner's manual and factory price sticker) and let's get started......
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 10:50 PM   #7
EcoboostKev
Senior Member
 
EcoboostKev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Douger View Post
I just bought a Passport 2510RB and was not sure what to expect from the Tacoma (2010 V6 SR5 Prerunner TRD). It seemed to do just fine going through low mountains (foothills of the Smokies). The only problem I had was backing it into the drive. It is uphilll, first time, with a manual transmission (6 speed). Had a very hot and smelly clutch by the time I got it up there. I will do things differently next time. But on the road I was very pleased with how it pulled and stopped. Not an acid test for sure but...
Hey Douger, The first thing you need to do when it comes to matching up a trailer with a tow vehicle is to look at the trucks gvwr, payload rating and rear axle rating before the max tow rating. Just like JRTJH said, We need all the info on your truck. A whole lot more goes into getting a trailer and truck to be a good match than just staying under the max tow rating. Take it from me, I thought I was perfectly fine with my setup because my trailer only weighed 7500lbs loaded and my max tow rating is 11,200lbs. That it's until I brought my setup to my local Cat Scale and had it weighed. My trucks gvwr is 7700lbs and with the trailer hooked up,family aboard, full tank of fuel and just the kids bikes and some fishing gear in the bed it weighed in at 7540lbs! So I'm just 160lbs from maxing out my trucks gvwr but not even close to it's max tow rating. So now everytime we load up for a trip I have to be careful how I pack in the bed of the truck so I don't exceed my rating. Get us those figures and we can help you out. Kevin
__________________
2011 F150 Screw Ecoboost with Max Tow Pkg
157" wheelbase, 3.73 gears
2012 Keystone Outback 292BH
https://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...11_748-1-1.jpg
EcoboostKev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 08:56 AM   #8
Douger
Junior Member
 
Douger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6
All the specs, I hope

First of all, thank you JRTJH and EcoboostKey for taking the time to help me through this. I went out and took photos of all the labels I could find on the truck and the Passport. I then went through the window sticker for the Tacoma and retyped anything that might appear to be related to towing, here it is:

Tacoma Prerunner Acc Cab 4x2 V6 SR5

4.0L V6 236HP
6 speed manual transmission
Coil over shock double A-Arm front suspension
Multi-Leaf rear suspension with staggered outboard mounted shocks
Vehicle stability control
Traction control
ABS with electronic brake force distribution and brake assist
TRD off road package:
Off road tuned suspension with Bilstein shocks
locking rear differential
Tow Package:
class 4 hitch
oil cooler
130A alternator
heavy duty battery
7 pin connector with converter

This is from the Toyota Tow Guide:
Access Cab, V6, PreRunner, 6-speed manual
Curb Weight:3730 GVWR:5250 Payload Capacity:1520 Towing Capacity:6500

Tire Markings
P265/70R16 111 T M+S
Max Load 2403 lbs Max pressure 35 psi
BFGoodrich Rugged Trail T/A
DOT Ap72 EW61 4009
Treadwear 400
Traction A
Temperature B

I installed:
Prodigy P2 brake controller
Reese Strait-Line Hitch (weight diet, sway control)

All labels for the Passport 2510RB:



All labels for the Tacoma:


We are traveling VERY light, just the necessities: buy food when we get there, no water in any tanks, no bikes, minimum kitchen stuff, bare minimum until I get comfortable with the whole thing.

If there is any other information you need, please let me know.

Thanks again, Doug
__________________
Doug & Trish
+++ Teddy Bear, a Maltese-Yorkie
Service Connected 100% Disabled Veteran
2013-Feb Passport 2510RB
2013 Ford F-250 XLT
Douger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 01:48 PM   #9
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
OK let's try to make some sense out of the information we have at hand and what's in the 2010 Toyota Tacoma Owner's Manual.

Vehicle: 2010 Tacoma Access Cab PreRunner with V6 4.0L engine
GVWR: 5250
GCWR: 11100
PAYLOAD: 1300 LBS (from tire loading sticker combined weight)
FAWR: 2755
RAWRL 3110
HITCH RECEIVER: Class 4 (max tongue 1000/max weight 10,000) max hitch weight limited to 650 lbs by Toyota.
Wheelbase: 127.4"

Vehicle: 2012 Passport 2510RB
GVWR: 7000
SHIPPING WT: 4795
PAYLOAD: 2205
TONGUE WT: 495 (empty at shipping wt)
add: propane 60
add: battery 75
add: hitch 75
LENGTH: 29 FT

Toyota Owner's Manual information:
MAX Tongue Wt: 650 lbs (pg 215)
GCWR: 11100 lbs (pg 220)
Max TLR Wt: 6500 lb (pg 220)

You said that when you were backing up in your drive that you smelled the clutch overheating. It is relatively difficult for the "average driver" to tow with a manual transmission because they usually have difficulty with engaging the clutch. Any slippage will cause the clutch to overheat and burn the clutch lining. The clutch pedal should be "all the way in" or "all the way out." That's tough to do when you've got 6000 pounds behind you trying to push it uphill. Understandably, you overheated the clutch. There is a skill that needs to be developed to master clutching with a load. Practice Practice PRACTICE !!!!!

Now, let's try to make some sense of these figures. First of all, most recommendations for trailer length use the formula of 1 foot of trailer for every 4" of wheelbase with a base of 110" for a 20' trailer. So, add 17" for the Tacoma wheelbase gives a max recommended trailer length of 17/4= 4.25' added trailer length or a max recommended trailer of 24.25 ft.

The maximum trailer hitch weight allowed for the Tacoma is 650 lbs. Let's determine as close as we can, the weight of the empty 2510. shipping weight advertised to be 495 (this is almost always advertised lighter than actual weight) now let's add 60 lbs of propane and 75 lbs of battery and box plus 75 lbs for the weight of your distribution hitch. That's 495+60+75+75= 705 lbs of estimated actual hitch weight of the EMPTY trailer.

Now, let's determine the actual truck weight:

curb weight + fuel weight (21gal @ 6.3lb) + passenger weight + cargo weight (est 150 lbs)
3730+132+350+150= 4362 lbs

What's left for PAYLOAD:
GVW-curb weight-fuel-passengers-cargo= PAYLOAD
5250-3730-132-350-150=888 lbs

To explain payload in a different way, it is what is left over from the total GVW minus the total of what you put into the truck. ie: GVW-cargo/passengers/fuel= payload (the remaining weight the truck can carry)

OK, let's hook the trailer to the truck and see what we have:

Truck remaining payload: 888 lbs
Trailer tongue weight (empty) 705 lbs

This leaves about 183 lbs of "free weight" remaining before you're overloaded.

Now that we have the trailer and truck hooked up, Toyota says the GCWR (total weight of truck+trailer+passengers+contents) is 11100. The truck weighs 4362, the trailer weighs 4795, propane 60, battery 75, hitch 75.
4362+4795+60+75+75=9367
GCWR-weight=cargo capacity
11100-9367=1733 cargo capacity.

Now, none of the above calculations even address the maximum weight on your front or rear axle.

Since we don't have accurate data on how much weight is currently on the axles, let's use a 55/45 "best guess" to estimate your weights. That means let's try to calculate your front axle load and your rear axle load BEFORE hitching the trailer.

Truck weight 4362 lbs. 55% front weight = 2399 lbs 45% rear axle weight = 1962 lbs.
REMEMBER: this is only an estimate of the axle weights, they may be significantly different when weighed.

Hitch the trailer and we have 705 extra pounds of "cargo"

The weight distribution hitch usually, if adjusted properly moves 30% of the weight to the front axle, 40% to the rear axle and 30% to the trailer axles. So, let's add that to the truck. 705@ 30%= 212 705@40%=282

FRONT AXLE: 2399 + 212 = 2611 lbs (max is 2755)
REAR AXLE: 1962 + 282 = 2244 lbs (max is 3110)

As you can see, there is no reserve capacity on the front axle and it appears that there is 866 lbs of reserve on the rear axle. But, as explained above, this is a very rough estimate. Really it's a "best guess" and I wouldn't want to place any bets on these figures.

Most vehicle manufacturers place a maximum frontal surface area limit on their vehicles when used to tow. I couldn't find that data for the Tacoma, but in the Ford F150 the frontal limitation is 36 sqft without towing package and 60sqft with towing package. Smaller vehicles typically have smaller frontal limitations. The frontal area of the 2510 is approximately 72 sq ft, however the shape of the front slope effectively reduces that some. The frontal area is important when considering how much drag the vehicle will encounter when towing at higher speeds. This limitation is extremely important when towing into headwinds as the vehicle will have to work significantly harder in such conditions.

Most people recommend a 10-20% reserve capacity when calculating tow vehicle capabilities with a specific trailer. If we apply a 15% reserve to your combination, here's how it stacks up:

GCWR 11100-15% = 9435 max total weight
GVW 5250-15% = 4462 max vehicle weight
FAWR 2755-15% = 2341 max front axle weight
RAWR 3110-15% = 2643 max rear axle weight
Hitch wt 650-15% = 552 max hitch weight
Trailer wt 6500-15% = 5525 max trailer capacity.

I hope this gives you some indication of where you stand mathematically.

Now, here's my opinion. Keep in mind, it's MY opinion, not necessarily Toyota's opinion.

You have a mid size truck comparable in size to a Ranger or S10. These trucks are capable and do very well if used within their capabilities. Having said that, given the recommendations of a number of sources regarding wheelbase, your truck should be "OK" towing a trailer up to about 24'. As for weight, you are right at your truck's GVW with the trailer propane tanks, battery and hitch considered. There is no "wiggle room" left. Should you take along a 60 lb dog or one extra passenger, you'll be overloaded. Your truck has a standard transmission. There is an "art" to towing a trailer with a standard, until you master that "art" you're going to find clutches to be very expensive. So far, we haven't touched upon the "overloaded" or the "too much weight to handle safely" topics, nor have we discussed any "emergency maneuvers" or "accident avoidance" issues.

I think you'll be "OK" (not good or even marginally safe" just OK) with that combination in most routine, flat ground towing situations. But, where you will find the "white knuckle" driving come into play is in crosswinds, on wet roads in windy conditions, in heavy traffic when it's raining heavily and there are 18 wheelers on the road and when conditions deteriorate because of an emergency situation requiring you steer around a problem or have to stop quickly on a wet or slick road. With a 2 wheel drive, you won't be pulling that rig across a dew covered grassy field in a campground, there's just not enough truck to maintain traction to keep you moving.
I would recommend that you seriously look at a larger tow vehicle if (or when) you can afford it.

The thought in your mind now, I'm sure, is that you've already towed "successfully" with your truck, so it must be OK, at least for the time being. I agree with you. "OK for the time being" but as you indicated, you've already smelled the clutch burning. That is because of extra stress on the drive train. If you keep towing with that truck, maxing out its capabilities, I think you're going to either wear it out quickly (if you're lucky) or find yourself with a major mechanical issue (hopefully not late at night on a lonely stretch of highway).

I hope this helps at least a little. I know it's not all good news, but with the exception of my "opinion" I think you'll find the data to be objective and easy to understand. Any questions or comments, post them here or if you'd prefer, PM me and I'll try to explain them to you.

John
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.