First timer looking for towing advice

[alynch6]

Hello everyone,

My wife and I have been wanting to get a camper for quite some time, my great uncle has offered to sell us his old 2015 Keystone Bullet Premier 34BHPR for a really good price to get us started.

I have a 2016 F-150 Plat Super Crew, short bed, 4X4, 5.0 Gas w/tow package. GVWR of the truck is 7000 and payload is rated 1631 (see first photo)

The trailer info my uncle sent is GVWR 8800 and a max payload 1680 (see second photo). His most recent trip to the scales has the trailer at 8000 loaded with tools, pots pans, chairs, linens, the works and all of the water tanks empty. He also says he will include his Reese Steadi Flex Hitch
https://www.reese-hitches.com/produc..._400_lbs,66561

Going through the user manuals and specs for all of the above and making some assumptions based on it being only me and my wife in the truck I completed this towing calculator (see final photo). It looks like we would be right at the edge of my trucks limits from this calculator, is that what the calculator shows accurate? Would we be crazy to try and tow this trailer with my truck?

Let me know if I am missing any important information, any help would be much appreciated.

[Morotcycle Todd]

Originally Posted by alynch6

Hello everyone,

My wife and I have been wanting to get a camper for quite some time, my great uncle has offered to sell us his old 2015 Keystone Bullet Premier 34BHPR for a really good price to get us started.

I have a 2016 F-150 Plat Super Crew, short bed, 4X4, 5.0 Gas w/tow package. GVWR of the truck is 7000 and payload is rated 1631 (see first photo)

The trailer info my uncle sent is GVWR 8800 and a max payload 1680 (see second photo). His most recent trip to the scales has the trailer at 8000 loaded with tools, pots pans, chairs, linens, the works and all of the water tanks empty. He also says he will include his Reese Steadi Flex Hitch
https://www.reese-hitches.com/produc..._400_lbs,66561

Going through the user manuals and specs for all of the above and making some assumptions based on it being only me and my wife in the truck I completed this towing calculator (see final photo). It looks like we would be right at the edge of my trucks limits from this calculator, is that what the calculator shows accurate? Would we be crazy to try and tow this trailer with my truck?

Let me know if I am missing any important information, any help would be much appreciated.

According to the calculator you are green with WD hitch across the board. As long as your WD hitch is setup correctly and you don't get tempted to overload the bed of your truck with extra stuff you should be fine according to the people who actually made your truck.

However, get ready as there will be quite a few people here who think that the full capabilities of your truck shouldn't be used and that you should always have more truck than you really need. They will also come up with all kinds of reasons why your assumptions are incorrect and that you will likely go over most to the weights you are trying to guesstiamate right now.

Don't be sacred away. Your truck is capable and if it doesn't feel right when you actually get the trailer, find out what might be wrong about the setup of your WD hitch before just assuming your truck isn't "big enough".

[flybouy]

Andrew welcome to the forum. Asking the questions before making a decision is the prudent thing to do. The truck payload is 1,631 lbs. The reported weight of the trailer at 8,000 would realistically net a tongue weight of 1,040 lbs. (8,000 X .13 = 1,040). Add to that about 120 lbs for the hitch. So going in, you would be placing ~ 1,160 lbs on the rear of the truck. 1,631 - 1,160 = 471 lbs of remaining cargo capacity for you, any passengers, and anything else you m,ay have or plan to put in the truck..

That remaining load capacity is IF the truck is identical since it left the factory. ANY added ANYTHING since then comes directly off that load capacity i.e. bed liner, tonneau cover, tool box, tools, floor mats, even the change in the center console.

Even if the payload wasn't going to be an issue towing a trailer of that size behind a 1/2 ton truck will not be a pleasant experience. Look at my signature. I started out towing out trailer that's 35 1/2' l;onmd with a F150 King Ranch. That's a huge wind sail back there that will end up causing issues.

Sorry iot's not good news but it's the reality.

[MarkEHansen]

Keep in mind that what the truck manufacturer says you can tow is based on a much different type of trailer - it's based on a flatbed trailer with low-profile cargo (think pile of bricks). This is much different that a high-profile travel trailer, which will act much like a large sail behind the truck.

This is one of the intangibles that don't show up in the numbers. When you're close to the limits, you need to be able to look beyond the numbers and consider other factors which will affect the truck's ability to tow safely.

Since you're getting a good deal on the trailer, I would get it (if it were me) with the understanding that you may realize that your truck is just not up to the challenge and may have to be traded-in on something more capable.

Best of luck and welcome to the RV world!

[wiredgeorge]

Looks like your payload is OK but I would caution that you use some real truck tires; at least load range E (LT) if you truck came with, well basically car tires to make sure it rode nice and smooth. Once you start towing, you will see that that long trailer is a bit much for a 1/2 ton in terms of stability and ability to handle cross winds so keep a more suitable truck in the back of your mind and make your first towing trips sort of a trial to see how the truck does and report back; we are always interested in a success story!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by alynch6

Hello everyone,

My wife and I have been wanting to get a camper for quite some time, my great uncle has offered to sell us his old 2015 Keystone Bullet Premier 34BHPR for a really good price to get us started.

I have a 2016 F-150 Plat Super Crew, short bed, 4X4, 5.0 Gas w/tow package. GVWR of the truck is 7000 and payload is rated 1631 (see first photo)

The trailer info my uncle sent is GVWR 8800 and a max payload 1680 (see second photo). His most recent trip to the scales has the trailer at 8000 loaded with tools, pots pans, chairs, linens, the works and all of the water tanks empty. He also says he will include his Reese Steadi Flex Hitch
https://www.reese-hitches.com/produc..._400_lbs,66561

Going through the user manuals and specs for all of the above and making some assumptions based on it being only me and my wife in the truck I completed this towing calculator (see final photo). It looks like we would be right at the edge of my trucks limits from this calculator, is that what the calculator shows accurate? Would we be crazy to try and tow this trailer with my truck?

Let me know if I am missing any important information, any help would be much appreciated.

Welcome to the forum Andrew! It's great that you have this opportunity and have done a lot of homework checking things out. Your calculator numbers look OK in some places, not so good in some. The ones that are troublesome are the ones typical with a 1/2 ton truck.

Your gvwr and gcvwr are just about maxed out and that's with the trailer not loaded fully. I see 5700 for the truck, how was that number determined and what was in the truck? You mentioned that your uncle was throwing in the Reese hitch; that weight needs to be added to the weight of the truck along with people, tools, toys, jacks etc. Maybe 600 lbs.?

With the wdh engaged your rear axle rating is right at the red. If you add the weight I mentioned above that should move you to exceed not only the rear axle rating but the gvw plus max out your gcvwr. The problem then as I see it is the 800 lbs. left before you get to the trailer gvw (8800gvw - 8000 scaled). So - 8800 gvw - 1680 carrying capacity = 7120 dry weight. 8000 scaled - 7120 dry = 880 lbs. of gear loaded.

Andrew you said you have been wanting to get into camping leading me to believe you've not done it before. Here's the catch22 in your situation - if you take that trailer and you've never camped in one before I figure some things are going to happen; you will find that what uncle had in the trailer is not what you want; you will want some "extras" that aren't there; you're going to want to put stuff in the truck for play toys when you get where you are going; then you will hate the rv mattress in the trailer so you will put in a residential mattress, or a 2nd battery if it doesn't have one.....the list is endless and that's all well and good except....the truck is already maxed out or overloaded. At the end of the day 880 lbs. of gear, to include everything needed and used in an RV, is not very much.

Your question was would you be crazy if you towed this trailer. If that made you crazy there's lots of others because there are a lot of folks that do....and believe you should, but it's not the safest route for you, your family or anyone else on the road. I've done it; I was not safe and I was definitely not happy after thinking it would be fine.

Just some things to mull over. Post back with questions or concerns - you did a good job of getting into the weight numbers.

[alynch6]

Thanks for the warm welcome insights everyone, you all have covered a lot of the concerns that have crossed my mind. My only previous experience towing has been a 16 foot boat and a few flat bed trailers all shorter than the boat.

It seems clear that the payload and rear axle ratings on my truck will be at the limit if not exceeded before we would even start packing the truck or trailer.

It never ceases to amaze me how many half truths and outright lies are spewed by salesmen and manufactures. There is absolutely no way I could get anywhere near the advertised bumper pull weight 12,200# unless the trailer had a tongue weight of less than ~8% or it would exceed the payload!

With everyone reaffirming my reservations I don't think this will be the camper for us. At the same time this really is a deal we can't pass up, we are going to pick up the camper this weekend I will be keeping my fingers crossed rear end clenched for the 80 mile drive home.

Now its time to convince the wife to get a smaller camper. Why we would need a camper that sleeps "10" for just the two of us is beyond me in the first place.

If for sentimental reasons my wife doesn't want to part with the camper what kind of tow vehicle would I need to safely and comfortably tow this camper? I am unfamiliar with the world of Super Duty trucks, is jumping to a dual rear wheel full ton pickup warranted?

[MarkEHansen]

With a bumper-pull trailer, you have less of a payload concern. You should estimate the tongue weight of that trailer at 1,144 (8800 GVWR x .13). Add to that about 125lbs for the hitch comes to 1,269. I would expect that any 3/4-ton truck would be okay as far as the weight goes. However, keep in mind that a 1-ton isn't going to cost that much more when buying new - and if buying used, well...

The other thing to consider is the wheelbase - the longer the wheelbase on the tow vehicle, the less sway will be introduced. With a 3/4-ton or 1-ton truck it won't be as much of an issue as it would have been with a 1/2-ton, but still something to think about. If you want to tow, a longer truck is better.

As far as dual rear wheels go, I don't think you need that unless you plan on upgrading to a larger 5th-wheel trailer. 5th-wheel trailers really pack a lot of weight on the truck and DRW may be needed then. We plan on upgrading to a larger 5th-wheel, so that is the route we took.

Good luck on pulling that trailer with the current truck. Just be aware that it may get squirrelly at times and keep your speed down and your following distance long. Be especially alert when passing or being passed by 18-wheel trucks.

[alynch6]

To calculate the GVW of the truck I subtracted the payload (1631) from the GVWR (7000) and added myself and wife as passengers (350) and rounded up to 5700#. I did not think to add the weight of the hitch, tools, bed liner and other miscellaneous items, when adding all of that it seems safe to assume the GVW would be over 5900#. When updating the GVW that tips the scales into the red in the towing calculator on the rear axle and GVWR.

I am new to campers and towing in general, and I want to make this a safe and fun experience for my family and everyone else on the road. I cant imagine anyone would be thrilled to be stuck behind me on the freeway doing 45MPH with the engine struggling in 4th gear.

[MarkEHansen]

You're going at that backwards. You really need to take the GVWR of the truck and subtract the weight of everything, including the truck. The payload sticker on the door is just the GVWR minus the weight of the truck when it came off the assembly line - with an allowance for a full tank of fuel and a 150lb driver.

If you know of things that have been added to the truck since it was new, like a tonneau cover, running boards, floor mats, tool box, etc., you can deduct those things from the payload sticker. This make a reasonably-good estimate.

To know for sure, you would have to take the truck to the scales and weigh it. The objective is that the truck never exceeds the GVWR.

[flybouy]

As I stated earlier the effect of wind, from passing trucks or the environment will have a negative effect on towing that much trailer with a light duty truck, especially with soft tires (not LT tires). Combine that with no experience towing anything that size and you set yourself of for sway. If the trailer starts swaying and you overcompensate with the steering wheel can lead to a "white knuckle" "high pucker factor" experience or even a disastrous experience if sever enough.

[Northofu1]

Sorry, with a crosswind that trailer is going to sway. A 37' trailer on an F150.Tail wagging the dog. I would be shocked if the numbers are good after its loaded to go.

[MarkEHansen]

I agree. I saw another poster state that if his tongue weight was too much for his truck, he would just redistribute the weight in the trailer to get the tongue weight lower. This is a recipe for inducing uncontrollable sway

[Northofu1]

It's a hard pill to swallow.

[JRTJH]

A 37' long trailer that's 11' tall (with 2' of 'free space under the trailer) is a 37x9' sidewall "box". That's a 333 sq ft "sail" hitched to a pivot point on the back of a 5500 pound truck...

As a comparison, a 28' sailboat typically has 325-350 sq ft of sail to "push/propel" a 7,500 pound boat through the water on "wind power" typically at 15-20 knots (depending on the wind speed).

To somehow think that the wind wouldn't push that "RV sail" to affect the stability of the truck is more wishful thinking than reality.... Any RV that long and that tall is going to "impact controlability" of any lightweight tow vehicle. In "truly adverse conditions" that much "RV sail" is going to adversely affect even a "heavyweight tow vehicle" (just not as much)...

I've seen half ton trucks pulling 25' trailers "switch lanes in a crosswind"... Just the thought of being 200' above the water on the Mackinaw Bridge, in a "wind advisory" and having to cope with "inadvertent lane changes with a 37' RV sail" ??? Well, I'd suppose it's something a new RV owner would only want to experience ONE TIME !!!!!

[notanlines]

Alynch6, you have gotten good advice overall from knowledgable members. It truly is a tough pill to swallow finding out your ‘beast’ isn’t quite what your salesman told you. Those in the know on this forum have nothing to gain by leading you in the wrong direction. Will your truck tow it? Sure, but the first hard wind or two Peterbuilts blow by you, you’ll think otherwise. Luck to you, and make a good decision.

[sourdough]

I understand not wanting to pass up a good deal and the sentimental aspect.

So when you go to pick it up; make sure you get that hitch dialed in before taking off. One size does not fit all on those things so read the manual for the hitch and be prepared to set it up when you get there. Make sure the tires on your truck are aired up to max psi. Make sure the trailer tires are as well plus look them over. 80 miles isn't far but most accidents happen with 30 or so miles of home. Get it home and park it. Go through it and spend time getting acquainted with it, how to use it, what you want in it, what works for you and what doesn't. Then, start looking for that HD truck. Now.....what kind??

While you've been getting familiar with that trailer I hope you and DW are thinking about how to use it; where to use it. Something you won't really know is if you want a bigger trailer or smaller. It could go either way. If you are young and may have children you may thing about opting for a larger trailer or different floorplan in the future. Those things directly affect the truck you choose. If you think that size or something in that range is OK, look at 3/4 and 1 tons, either will handle that trailer just fine. Look at both. Not much different in pricing, the 1 ton gives you more latitude with a larger payload so you have more choices in the future. I would not suggest taking off traveling with that trailer on your truck. If you do decide to do that you need to come back to get some pointers on what you need to do to that truck to at least minimize the dangers. But hey, it's a 2016 so it's ready to be replaced?? I know there's an HD truck out there with your name on it....just look around!

[travelin texans]

Someone posted that there would a few of us that would recommend that "full capabilities of your truck shouldn't be used", from reading your numbers I believe the "full capabilities of your truck" are being used & then some.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by alynch6

It never ceases to amaze me how many half truths and outright lies are spewed by salesmen and manufactures. There is absolutely no way I could get anywhere near the advertised bumper pull weight 12,200# unless the trailer had a tongue weight of less than ~8% or it would exceed the payload!

I like to think of it this way: if you were pulling a giant Radio Flyer wagon, with a wheel in each corner, it could weigh 12,200 lbs. Otherwise, no.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Someone posted that there would a few of us that would recommend that "full capabilities of your truck shouldn't be used", from reading your numbers I believe the "full capabilities of your truck" are being used & then some.

I think the reference was to the 10% or 20% "safety margin" some of the towing tables advise you to maintain.