camping world is a ripp-off

[tandy2015]

I am trying to find out what features our new sptingdale was supposed to have from the factory, anyone have any ideas?

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure why you'd consider Camping World a "rip-off" because you can't find out what features Keystone builds into the Springdale line. That's a pretty broad statement to be making without any specifics to explain your feelings. So, let's just take that with a grain of salt from a first time poster and go from there.

What are you trying to find out with regards to the Springdale line? and have you, by any chance, checked the Keystone website for the specifics regarding the Springdale line? There's also a Customer Service tab where you can communicate directly with the factory to get answers for your questions. The CS rep will probably need your VIN, Date of Purchase and exactly what questions you need answered.

Try:
http://www.keystonerv.com/brochure-archive

http://www.keystonerv.com/springdale/

http://www.keystonerv.com/customer-service

[KanTC]

tandy2015,

You didn't offer any info about your potential purchase - no year, no model # (east or west; travel trailer or 5th wheel?) - features can sometimes vary.
A bit more info would be helpful for our members to answer your questions.

If it's a 2015 RV, you can find a list of "standard features & available options" on the Keystone (manuf) website: http://www.keystonerv.com/springdale/

-OR- in a current Springdale brochure:
East http://www.keystonerv.com/media/1800...dec2014web.pdf
West http://www.keystonerv.com/media/1894...alewest_lr.pdf

If a 2014 or older, the brochures are in the archives: http://www.keystonerv.com/brochure-archive

I'm sure others are also wondering..... how is Camping World to blame for the confusion??

ON EDIT: Ooops sorry for the very similar post... typing at the same time as John, apparently

Terri, the Chevy co-pilot

[racin500]

Call keystone and give them your serial number. They will send you the build sheet.

As for Camping World...

[chuckster57]

We bought our trailer without any printed specs. A quick email to Keystone got them in less than 24 hrs.

[GaryWT]

What did you expect to get but didn't and why is it Camping Worlds fault. I have never bought a trailer from them but they sell quite a few.

[Way Of Life]

Just purchased a new 2015 Fuzion 325 from Camping World. I had the exact same question as you so I sent my sales rep an email and he got back to me with the spec sheet direct from Keystone within a couple of hours.

[ljp]

Will the "build sheet" from Keystone identify the position of studs, wiring and plumbing inside the walls?

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by ljp

Will the "build sheet" from Keystone identify the position of studs, wiring and plumbing inside the walls?

No it will not. It will identify all the appliances by model and serial number, axles and tires.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by ljp

Will the "build sheet" from Keystone identify the position of studs, wiring and plumbing inside the walls?

Nothing from Keystone will identify that information. They do not share that type "propriety" information with anyone, not even the dealerships.

Very few RV manufacturers provide electrical, plumbing or framing schematics for their products. There have been a number of threads regarding this. If you do a forum search, you'll find a great deal of discussion, all without any schematics other than this one:

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...ght=electrical

You probably won't find it any more useful than the one you already have.....

[racin500]

Originally Posted by ljp

Will the "build sheet" from Keystone identify the position of studs, wiring and plumbing inside the walls?

If they gave you one, you might believe it!

[GmaPaTime]

Makes one wonder if Keystone even defines pre-determined routes and placements for plumbing and electrical lines. From what I've seen behind panels it looks very sloppy. Even the openings for passthroughs are like they punched the holes with a sledge hammer.

I know I can be more critical than most on this subject as I have spent my entire career involved in aircraft manufacturing.

Has anyone ever gone to the factory and watch them lay cable?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by GmaPaTime

Makes one wonder if Keystone even defines pre-determined routes and placements for plumbing and electrical lines. From what I've seen behind panels it looks very sloppy. Even the openings for passthroughs are like they punched the holes with a sledge hammer.

I know I can be more critical than most on this subject as I have spent my entire career involved in aircraft manufacturing.

Has anyone ever gone to the factory and watch them lay cable?

Yes I have been to the factory in Goshen and spent considerable time watching the line. There's an accounting of what I saw at : http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=tour

You can see the "disarray" of all the wiring harness components in some of the pictures. There's no way possible for all of those wires to be "routed the same in every RV".....

In this link, in post #8, I talked about exactly what you're asking: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...highlight=side

[GmaPaTime]

Thanks John... Very interesting to see how they just THROW these things together. The one photo of the water tank area is exactly how mine looks. I cringed when I first opened the panel for pump and water heater access and realized what a chore if you need to get back there.

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure the term "throw them together" is the right description, but yes, they are not built "exactly the same way" that cars and trucks are built. I think sometimes we expect the "robotic assembly exactness" that the car manufacturers have accomplished. You can't use a robotic welder to install wooden panels or composite trim, so the processes on the two types of assembly lines are very much different.

RV's are built on an assembly line, but are constructed more like "tract houses" than automobiles. If you think about it, the blueprints for a house give the general layout, but not the specifics. In the electrical work, it's up to the electrician whether he secures the romex to the left stud or to the right stud when he makes a switch run down the wall. The objective is to get the switch in the correct vicinity, but very few "same model tract house" have exactly the same locations for switches, wiring runs, HVAC ducting/vents and even plumbing runs. They are "similar" but not "exact". RV's are more like tract housing than automobiles in that aspect.

Could uniformity improve? Yes, but will it? I doubt it, the cost would cut into profits and not improve sales, so the RV industry likely won't adapt any significant changes in assembly line uniformity. It won't improve their "bottom line" enough to pay for the changes.

[GmaPaTime]

Understood John and maybe "Thrown Together" was to harsh. I agree that these trailers can not be constructed like automobiles, but much could be improved.

Even in home construction, tract or custom, there is some level of pride in the trades with neatness and organization of their work. I don't believe it would cost them anything, or very little at most, to keep the end user in mind with placement of internal components. They know at some point in time these components will either need repair or replacement. It's apparent they just don't care.

I know I'm ranting on and on with this subject but having a Manufacturing Engineering background, it bothers me to see this happening.

I feel better.....

[jkohler70]

As a fledgling shade-tree mechanic, I've often cursed automotive engineers for what little thought they have given to servicing the the vehicle they've designed. It takes a half-day to change the rear spark plugs on the transverse V6 in my Sonata. It requires removing the intake plenum, and multiple hoses and wires. And even then, it's a blind job.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by GmaPaTime

Even in home construction, tract or custom, there is some level of pride in the trades with neatness and organization of their work.
I feel better.....

"...level of pride..." Now there's a subject for a home study, school, high school, college course. And don't call me dude, son.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by GmaPaTime

Understood John and maybe "Thrown Together" was to harsh. I agree that these trailers can not be constructed like automobiles, but much could be improved.

Even in home construction, tract or custom, there is some level of pride in the trades with neatness and organization of their work. I don't believe it would cost them anything, or very little at most, to keep the end user in mind with placement of internal components. They know at some point in time these components will either need repair or replacement. It's apparent they just don't care.

I know I'm ranting on and on with this subject but having a Manufacturing Engineering background, it bothers me to see this happening.

I feel better.....

I agree with you completely, and like you, wish more people had the "level of pride" that we used to accept as "common place". But, being realistic, I don't think we'll ever see that in the mass produced market, so rather than focus on the unlikely, I just look for the best I can find, fix what's not up to my standards and head off to a campground. I know that if I "refuse to buy" because of this issue, it won't make any difference at all since there's 3 or 4 people behind me waiting to plunk down their deposit if I walk away.

There's fewer ulcers and certainly less frustration that way.

[GmaPaTime]

You are right again.... Lets just go camping