Tires

[ChuckS]

http://www.trailerkingtires.com/tire...g-product-line

The ST 225/75x15 has what appears to be adequate load capacity at 2860 @ 80 psi.... that’s how I read the spec chart..

But... I don’t and won’t ever trust the tire ... just like decades ago when Firestone 500s were coming apart. Yup I had a set and nope I have never run that brand since.

Nothing wrong with Chinese tires. Just not TK or Towmax....

The advice you get here always appears to be great and with background experiences backing up the statements ..

If you wanna run those tires it’s your choice. Please post pics sometime in the future when warm weather returns of the blowouts and damage incurred

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Brian, if you frequented any number of other forums you would find that this particular one is quite friendly, plus very, very informative. George simply made a statement, being neither overly 'snarky' nor overly friendly. Simply passed on a little good information.
As a fairly long time member, I kind of like a little snarky now and again. It helps get a rise out of some members, and keeps some interest in what could be a somewhat boring site.
Don't give up on the site just because you feel like you may have been slighted. There is good info to be had here and yes, we always DO need new members. Plus, you're from 'Little America," as the state of Maryland is known. A moderator, Flybouy, is also from Maryland and we even get snarky with him!

My apologies to the site. I’m a little irritable this morning. trying to plan trips during this election has me worried in general and worried about driving into protests or riots. “When we are wrong promptly admit it” I will try and not be so thin skinned and will look over site rules and suggestions. Carry on

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

http://www.trailerkingtires.com/tire...g-product-line

The ST 225/75x15 has what appears to be adequate load capacity at 2860 @ 80 psi.... that’s how I read the spec chart..

But... I don’t and won’t ever trust the tire ... just like decades ago when Firestone 500s were coming apart. Yup I had a set and nope I have never run that brand since.

Nothing wrong with Chinese tires. Just not TK or Towmax....

The advice you get here always appears to be great and with background experiences backing up the statements ..

If you wanna run those tires it’s your choice. Please post pics sometime in the future when warm weather returns of the blowouts and damage incurred

Like you I got burned but on my experience was first with OE tires on a FR camper. Sidewalls started to blister after about 18 months. I was in a Northern Tool in Richmond, VA and they had Goodyear trailer tires on the rim at a good price. Bought 4 and was on my way.

About 2 years later I sold the camper. I was so convinced that my maintenance was good that I told the purchaser to take it to a local RV dealer that I knew to get it inspected and I would pay for anything it needed to pass inspection. I knew the owner of the dealership where we bought the camper(knew him from childhood and knew he was a good person) .

So the owner calls me and said he wanted me to stop by so I could see the tires. He had been hearing and seeing the failures of the GY tires at the time. A small blister on the sidewall facing towards the axle on one tire. The broke down the tire and inside it looked like an outbreak of the mumps. That was the last set of GY trailer tires for me. Now the the "new" GY trailer tires are getting positive reviews but it's way to early to get my trust back. For Towmax, I can't say if they could earn my trust in my lifetime or not.

JMHO, YMMV

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by bjasin1

I’m leaning towards replacing mine. Should I go with a g rated tire? Also for op I would at the very least get a tpms system. After reading the posts I was really nervous but feel a little better being able to monitor them. Will be replacing mine soon I guess

Hi Brian,
Going up a load level depends on how old your trailer is. As even some of the late model trailers came with underrated tires. Mine came with D rated. So I moved up to a E rated tire and only had to switch to a steel air stem.
If mine came with an E rated tire I would have just switched brands. If yours is a two yr old model or newer and it came with an F it might be the properly rated tire. Moving up to a G might require a new rim or be too rigid for your rig.

I also think putting up a signature with your truck and trailer would give folks more insight to what you need / want with as much accuracy as possible.
Some folks are snarky, some are crusty lol. Some are like onions and have layers. JK
All the best

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Hi Brian,
Going up a load level depends on how old your trailer is. As even some of the late model trailers came with underrated tires. Mine came with D rated. So I moved up to a E rated tire and only had to switch to a steel air stem.
If mine came with an E rated tire I would have just switched brands. If yours is a two yr old model or newer and it came with an F it might be the properly rated tire. Moving up to a G might require a new rim or be too rigid for your rig.

I also think putting up a signature with your truck and trailer would give folks more insight to what you need / want with as much accuracy as possible.
Some folks are snarky, some are crusty lol. Some are like onions and have layers. JK
All the best

Thanks I appreciate. I just updated my signature. I thought it showed from profile.

[Northofu1]

No worries. You could move up to an F rated tire as long as the rim supports that higher pressure. Some F rated tires require 110 psi. I haven't looked at all the brands.
G rated might kill your suspension and contents of trailer. Lol

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Robins101

Hey. Had a trailer king pop with less than 500 miles on them. Looked like it developed a sidewall bubble. The spare and other 3 made it another 1200, going to change them out ove next month.

Have any pictures of the sidewall "bubble"? Might be an impact as I identified in my personal tire and wrote about and posted pictures as evidence even though I do not remember the "Hit".

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

My trailer King tires after about 3000 miles. IMPOSSIBLE to detect the tread separation without dismounting the tires. Fortunately we had a 4 month trip planned and new tires were on the list before we departed. Even more fortunate, we got rid of the TK's before they actually did "explode and destroy our wheelwells".... Will you be as lucky as I was ???? Who knows, but I'm not going to ever gamble with TK's again.

Take a look for yourself. Are your tires doing what mine did? The only way to tell is to take them off and look at the inside.....

Belt separations as seen in your tires are many times discoverable with a "Free Spin Inspection.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Actually the TK tire... IMO is the absolute worst brand of RV tire built. The number of failures across numerous RV groups is probably the highest amongst all RV tires out there...

I yanked a brand new set off my RV after first 500 miles...

That said ... since the new RST series of TK is what your running maybe they will perform better... only time will tell...

And they won’t last at all if you tow over 65 mph....

http://www.trailerkingtires.com/tire...g-product-line

Wondering if you are comparing the rate of problems or just the number?


If 80% of the market is on a single brand of tires why would you not expect 80% of the complaints to come from that brand?


I'm not making a claim that TK or GY or any other brand doesn't have problems but I could just as easily say that most poor quality problems with RVs is because they are made in or near Elkhart, IN so obviously you should never buy an RV made in Indiana.


Does that make sense?


Correlation is not proof of causation.

[notanlines]

There seems to be a correlation between tire people and the defense of Trailer King tires. Am I trolling, hoping to get a bite? Maybe, just a tad. But the overture is there none the less. Month after month we see the posts of blown TK's, for years we saw millions in damage caused by Goodyear's pride and joy, the Marathon. Personally, I'm not quite so quick to come to their defense. Maybe it has to do with my very first trip with eight month old TK's and my check to Camping World repair service for $9,000.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Wondering if you are comparing the rate of problems or just the number?


If 80% of the market is on a single brand of tires why would you not expect 80% of the complaints to come from that brand?


I'm not making a claim that TK or GY or any other brand doesn't have problems but I could just as easily say that most poor quality problems with RVs is because they are made in or near Elkhart, IN so obviously you should never buy an RV made in Indiana.


Does that make sense?


Correlation is not proof of causation.

Here's something for you to "chew on" an no doubt you have "written about it in a blog".

From my observations reading folks on this and other blogs relate their tire failures there's one glaring similarity. Someone will respond to a post on a tire failure with a typical "I had TKs and they failed in less than a year. I replaced with a different brand and put xxxx miles on them with no issues, or I'm on my second or third set of xyz brand with no issues since my TKs blew up.".

You can argue until the cows come home and defend Trail Kings all you want but I doubt you'll change the mind of one owner that's experienced a failure with them.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Here's something for you to "chew on" an no doubt you have "written about it in a blog".

From my observations reading folks on this and other blogs relate their tire failures there's one glaring similarity. Someone will respond to a post on a tire failure with a typical "I had TKs and they failed in less than a year. I replaced with a different brand and put xxxx miles on them with no issues, or I'm on my second or third set of xyz brand with no issues since my TKs blew up.".

You can argue until the cows come home and defend Trail Kings all you want but I doubt you'll change the mind of one owner that's experienced a failure with them.

Here's the deal IMO. "Causation"? Exactly how do we figure that out? Oh, take that blown tire you pulled off on the side of the road, throw in the pass through/truck bed, carry it for umpteen zillion miles trying to deal with it and then send it to an "expert" to tell us what? It blew out/up? To what end? I have eyes, ears and know what I'm doing with my tires. So yes, TK tires blow up....lots. They make lots of RV tires, yes. But those same folks that have "blow ups" with TKs then switch brands....oh, blow ups stop. So, folks understand the direct "correlation" between TK trailer tires and blow ups. And....we have figured out the "causation" of why so many move to other brands and then have no problems.

[wiredgeorge]

Doesn't it seem that the word "TIRE" in a thread title always heads off in the same direction? Since the thread has veered a little, I have noticed another Carlisle offering in my size and load range: Carlisle Ultra CRT 225/75R15 LRE. I haven't heard of anyone using this tire. Anyone ever use these tires and what is your experience? They are about $7-8 cheaper than the Radial Trail HD in the same size. Curious they have two lines so close in price. (prices are per Wally's website)

[sierraman68]

I can add my own TK woes. I was one of those that thought I could get one season out the TK, OEM tires, and then replace with new tires next year. Had a blowout after 5,000 miles.... and the tire pressure was always kept at the recommended 80 psig. Immediately drove to the nearest tire dealer and replaced all four. Luckily, there was no damage to the rig.

[Tireman9]

OK, so lets assume that the OE tires are garbage and have high failure rate.
Is anyone suggesting that there are no or almost no failures with replacement tires that are a different brand than the OE tires?


i am not trying to "defend" any brand of tire. As an engineer I deal in evidence and facts. In my career I found that it is possible to find the evidence that supports a conclusion on the reason for a tire to fail in some 90% of the cases. In the thousands of tire "autopsies" I performed, I have never found any evidence that points to the ZIP code of the manufacturing plant.

As covered in THIS post, If we exclude the obvious external causes such as nail or screw puncture or external cut we are left with Low inflation and degraded rubber.


Run Low (50% or greater loss of air) is easy if you know how to identify melted body cord or fatigued steel body cord. I dare say that without some training or education from a knowledgeable source few know to identify these conditions. Sidewall Impacts are also easy if discovered before the tire is driven and the sidewall rubber fails because the body cord was broken.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

OK, so lets assume that the OE tires are garbage and have high failure rate.
Is anyone suggesting that there are no or almost no failures with replacement tires that are a different brand than the OE tires?


i am not trying to "defend" any brand of tire. As an engineer I deal in evidence and facts. In my career I found that it is possible to find the evidence that supports a conclusion on the reason for a tire to fail in some 90% of the cases. In the thousands of tire "autopsies" I performed, I have never found any evidence that points to the ZIP code of the manufacturing plant.

As covered in THIS post, If we exclude the obvious external causes such as nail or screw puncture or external cut we are left with Low inflation and degraded rubber.


Run Low (50% or greater loss of air) is easy if you know how to identify melted body cord or fatigued steel body cord. I dare say that without some training or education from a knowledgeable source few know to identify these conditions. Sidewall Impacts are also easy if discovered before the tire is driven and the sidewall rubber fails because the body cord was broken.

I try very hard to not involve myself in the "tire expert" conversations. But; having spent many years with folks assigned to "find a cause" for various issues I found they are always predisposed to "find" a cause - right or wrong. If not obvious then predisposed mindsets then affect the outcome of the decision. If there is no such thing as a "defective tire" in the mind of the investigator....there can't be one. That means that that the "zip code" (ie: Chinese province/plant) can't be a factor - it HAS to be a puncture, abuse, special inspection of a carcass by a "specialist". I think that the first highlighted paragraph probably asks the question, and answers, the thing most RV owners know.

[flybouy]

So, if the majority of non impact failures are underinflation related how can you assume it was operator error? Cannot it not be an issue with the air escaping? As in a defective tire leaking air?

All too often investigations lead in one direction and the "investigators" become blind to other possabilities and the "evidence" presented is made to fit the conclusion. As with any "study" I want to know who's paying for the study as my experience those studies will support the funders views/ beliefs or interests.

JMHO

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by flybouy

So, if the majority of non impact failures are underinflation related how can you assume it was operator error? Cannot it not be an issue with the air escaping? As in a defective tire leaking air?

All too often investigations lead in one direction and the "investigators" become blind to other possabilities and the "evidence" presented is made to fit the conclusion. As with any "study" I want to know who's paying for the study as my experience those studies will support the funders views/ beliefs or interests.

JMHO

Not saying tire failures are "operator error" as that would require evidence that the "cause" of the failure was something the operator should have known about.
Here we have a failure caused by valve gasket failing.

This tire has physical evidence of run low flex which melted the Polyester
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QOuvCwhu2...0/IMG_9850.jpg

[Tireman9]

Pot hole impact damage is not evidence of a tire "defect"


Friday, April 27, 2018

Sidewall "Bubble" or ? A Tire Autopsy


Took the wife's Miata down for an oil change and tire rotation. Contacted by the store, that they had discovered a "Bubble" in the sidewall and wanted to know what I wanted to do.
After a quick look at the location of interest I concluded that we were looking at a Sidewall Impact Break. I had the store replace the tire with a new one and asked that the allow me to do a "Failed Tire Inspection". Here is what I found.

Picture 1 is of the inflated LF tire on the car.
You can easily see the "Bubble" on the sidewall under the molded word"OUTSIDE". What tipped me off to the damage being an impact and not a sidewall bubble or blister was the shape (more radial in nature than round) and the gradual nature of the rise of the shape. Sidewall blisters are normally more abrupt.



The interior picture is what we see inside the air chamber at the location of the sidewall "bump".

I have an arrow pointing at the stress marks of the body cord on the inner liner rubber.






Picture 2 is of my initial examination cuts. Note I did not cut directly through the area in question as I did not want to destroy or contaminate the "evidence" that I suspected would be found in the area of interest. This is an important point that many inexperienced investigators sometimes miss.

In picture 3 we see the location of interest. I added an arrow that points to area os special interest. If you look closely you will see a short dark line. This is a depression where the interior rubber has been "sucked" into the damaged area of the sidewall,




After removing the section of the tire, close examination revealed some of the initial Innerliner cracks / tears. Here is a close-up shot.

These cracks would grow and could eventually result is air loss through small cracks in the sidewall. It is important to consider that the cracks will not grow in just a couple of miles or maybe not even in 100 miles but if driven long enough would most certainly result in an air loss. The driver would have no recollection of ever hitting a bad pothole or road debris so in all likelihood simply claim that the "Blowout" was due to some tire defect.

Finally, we can see the separation of the body cord from the surrounding rubber. It is possible for this type of separation to allow the cords to move independently from the rubber next to the cord and the rubbing can generate heat which under the right circumstances could lead to a cord failure.
Again this could take weeks or months to progress to a loss of air but is another example of why few drivers connect the effect of a tire losing air to the real cause of suffering a sidewall impact break.

This break was actually quite minor. A more severe impact was covered in another post.

[Tireman9]

The problem with the claim of "defective" tire would require the defect be named and identified.
A claim is just that and is never considered evidence.


How would a loss of air be the tire's fault in this case?


Do you see the bubble?





This is what I mean by actual evidence.



There are many people who want to claim to be "tire Experts" but unless you have been accepted , in court, you can not realistically or correctly call your self an "Expert Witness" where your opinion can be accepted by the court.




Sorry if I went a bit overboard in my reply.