My conscience is bugging me

[Cyberian]

Attached photo is our old 2560RL being towed off by it's new owner. It has bugged me since (and still does) and recent discussion about weights, tow rigs, dealers, private sale, etc. pushed me, in a sense, to post this

She's (upper 60s widow) driving an early 2000's/ late 1990's I think Chevy 2500 gasser, from back when they had *REALLY* soft springs. We had a few of them at work and I never liked them. Too much squat for my Dodge lumber wagon tastes

I asked about having a 3/4 ton or better when she first came to buy it while driving an Olds 4 door, and told her how much a 60 gallon fresh tank just behind the front wall weighs, and I'm happy that she does have a 2500 but it's bugging the heck out of me that she showed up in her tow rig with only an 1 7/8" ball in the receiver and looked at me like I may as well have been speaking a foreign language when I asked about trailer brakes, or air bags, or a raise hitch in lieu of a drop hitch

I opened the fresh tank drain valve to show her where it is and left it open. All waste tanks were empty. I loaned her my spare 2 5/16" hitch (she did bring it back), and we struggled a bit to get the chains and cable to hopefully stay off the ground

She made it home ~50 miles from here and I told her to contact me with any questions or problems and also referred her to this forum but I'm not so secretly hoping that her "camping" is while parked on her property and she never tows it anywhere again

[notanlines]

Dave, I assume you did at least load her your WDH for the drive home? (Honest, I'm trying to kick you when you're down....well, maybe just a bit)

[sourdough]

Dave I think you face a situation like many truck/rv salesmen face but they don't care. She obviously has no clue about towing and comes from a mindset that a truck, is a truck is a truck and she has "a 3/4 ton"! Lots of red flags to me and what sticks in my mind is a recent picture on this forum of a little old lady that looked like that sitting in a chair in the middle of the highway after the truck and trailer overturned. Not good.

Is she open to coaching or help? You loaned her a 2 5/16 ball. Did she get her own? Doesn't look like a wdh. Is she going to get one? On that old of a pickup and a widow I figure the shocks, tires and springs are not up to the task. Does she have any idea how those things affect towing? I don't know why she wants it but she need a LOT of help before she heads out and hits the hiways and byways.

If it were me I would call her and tell her I had been looking at that picture and been worried sick about the situation. Make arrangements and go to her. Get that drop hitch off there and get the proper one. Make sure that ball is TIGHT and not just screwed on by the neighbor's teenager. Line her up with a good wdh and help her order it and then offer to put it on and set it up for her. Go over the vehicle issues and get that straight and a plan to fix it up - help her if required....she's a widow.

I know that sounds like a lot for the "seller" to be doing but the sale was made, and made to a widow woman that doesn't have a clue. She needs help and should not have to learn what she doesn't know on the side of the road or worse.

My MIL lost her husband when she was about that age. She could barely drive. I watched over her and took care of her until she died at 91. Strong, brave on the outside but inside she just didn't know what she didn't know. I was the one that did those kinds of things for her because, IMO, there was no alternative....even if I didn't like her initially. She's not your MIL but there is an obligation there it seems but that's JMO and YMMV I'm sure. Good luck on getting it sorted.

[rhagfo]

Sorry I am a little lost here, her TV is level no squat. It looks like from the picture that her hitch ball is too low.

[Cyberian]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Sorry I am a little lost here, her TV is level no squat. It looks like from the picture that her hitch ball is too low.

My spare 2 5/16" is a 1.5" drop. The Chevys from those years sat very rear high empty and had lots of spring travel and squish

Yes, she did, and still does need a raise hitch instead of a drop

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by Cyberian

Attached photo is our old 2560RL being towed off by it's new owner. It has bugged me since (and still does) and recent discussion about weights, tow rigs, dealers, private sale, etc. pushed me, in a sense, to post this

She's (upper 60s widow) driving an early 2000's/ late 1990's I think Chevy 2500 gasser, from back when they had *REALLY* soft springs. We had a few of them at work and I never liked them. Too much squat for my Dodge lumber wagon tastes

I asked about having a 3/4 ton or better when she first came to buy it while driving an Olds 4 door, and told her how much a 60 gallon fresh tank just behind the front wall weighs, and I'm happy that she does have a 2500 but it's bugging the heck out of me that she showed up in her tow rig with only an 1 7/8" ball in the receiver and looked at me like I may as well have been speaking a foreign language when I asked about trailer brakes, or air bags, or a raise hitch in lieu of a drop hitch

I opened the fresh tank drain valve to show her where it is and left it open. All waste tanks were empty. I loaned her my spare 2 5/16" hitch (she did bring it back), and we struggled a bit to get the chains and cable to hopefully stay off the ground

She made it home ~50 miles from here and I told her to contact me with any questions or problems and also referred her to this forum but I'm not so secretly hoping that her "camping" is while parked on her property and she never tows it anywhere again

I hear what your saying. You want to sell it, someone wants to buy it, can you really tell them what they need before they haul it off? I was in that position when I changed the tires on my TT. I know it's not at the same level, but it's hard to educate about tow weights and responsible towing and then sell some dude your old TK's for $100. If you're ok doing that, you might as well sell F150's to prospective 5er owners, the sales commission is better than $100.
I agree with what Danny mentioned about coaching, but the other person is going to want to be coached. If the're not asking questions for help, then you're just preaching. There's more than 50 shades of grey out there.

[Cyberian]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Dave I think you face a situation like many truck/rv salesmen face but they don't care. She obviously has no clue about towing and comes from a mindset that a truck, is a truck is a truck and she has "a 3/4 ton"! Lots of red flags to me and what sticks in my mind is a recent picture on this forum of a little old lady that looked like that sitting in a chair in the middle of the highway after the truck and trailer overturned. Not good.

Is she open to coaching or help? You loaned her a 2 5/16 ball. Did she get her own? Doesn't look like a wdh. Is she going to get one? On that old of a pickup and a widow I figure the shocks, tires and springs are not up to the task. Does she have any idea how those things affect towing? I don't know why she wants it but she need a LOT of help before she heads out and hits the hiways and byways.

If it were me I would call her and tell her I had been looking at that picture and been worried sick about the situation. Make arrangements and go to her. Get that drop hitch off there and get the proper one. Make sure that ball is TIGHT and not just screwed on by the neighbor's teenager. Line her up with a good wdh and help her order it and then offer to put it on and set it up for her. Go over the vehicle issues and get that straight and a plan to fix it up - help her if required....she's a widow.

I know that sounds like a lot for the "seller" to be doing but the sale was made, and made to a widow woman that doesn't have a clue. She needs help and should not have to learn what she doesn't know on the side of the road or worse.

My MIL lost her husband when she was about that age. She could barely drive. I watched over her and took care of her until she died at 91. Strong, brave on the outside but inside she just didn't know what she didn't know. I was the one that did those kinds of things for her because, IMO, there was no alternative....even if I didn't like her initially. She's not your MIL but there is an obligation there it seems but that's JMO and YMMV I'm sure. Good luck on getting it sorted.

I tried again when she brought back my spare hitch.

She did get a 2 5/16" ball, but it's the same 1.5" drop as the spare I loaned her. Her primary reason for being in town to return my spare was getting a generator for her "new" trailer and no mention of trailer brakes, etc.

That same little old lady sitting on a chair near a truck with it's tail end up in the air and trailer on it's side is what's bugging me and I can't do much, if anything, about it

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Cyberian

I tried again when she brought back my spare hitch.

She did get a 2 5/16" ball, but it's the same 1.5" drop as the spare I loaned her. Her primary reason for being in town to return my spare was getting a generator for her "new" trailer and no mention of trailer brakes, etc.

That same little old lady sitting on a chair near a truck with it's tail end up in the air and trailer on it's side is what's bugging me and I can't do much, if anything, about it

Yeah, gotcha. There is only so much a person can do. Any individual is responsible for "studying up" and learning about anything they attempt to do - young, old..don't matter. You've done what you can and I think it's admirable that you were concerned. And, I will tell you this; if it hadn't been because it was me, my MIL would have blown off anyone trying to "coach" her - and did (including me at times).

[xrated]

In my MUCH younger and dumber days (late teens), I had a Kawasaki dirt bike for sale. I was gung-ho Kawasaki back in those days and a guy called me about the bike and wanting to come look at it. When he asked me if the Ka WAS ski was still for sale, since he pronounced it wrong......I said no it's not and hung up on him! I figured (at that dumb time of my life)...if he couldn't even pronounce it correctly, he didn't deserve to get it!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by xrated

In my MUCH younger and dumber days (late teens), I had a Kawasaki dirt bike for sale. I was gung-ho Kawasaki back in those days and a guy called me about the bike and wanting to come look at it. When he asked me if the Ka WAS ski was still for sale, since he pronounced it wrong......I said no it's not and hung up on him! I figured (at that dumb time of my life)...if he couldn't even pronounce it correctly, he didn't deserve to get it!

How does the 2019 Spyder work for you? We had a 2010 RT and the missus and I both disliked it as the suspension was AWFUL and the little engine was super buzzy. Had enough power but just wasn't pleasant to drive. I changed shocks and put a heavier sway bar on and it helped but the thing still leaned too much for a trike in heavy cornering. Missus ordered me to get back on a GL1800 trike. Since then we have had several.

[dutchmensport]

Sounds to me like you've done all you can do. You gave her your best advise, even offered her your equipment, and she even returned it. You've made it known to her that you are available to answer questions and give suggestions, and if she REALLY want's it, she'll contact you. I think you are done. Your obligation is over. Move on.

[MarkEHansen]

The first thing that strikes me is the lack of trailer brakes. Most other pieces are somewhat subjective, but the lack of trailer brakes makes the rig illegal on the road.

I think I too would have tried to help her with all the stuff she will need to know to safely tow the trailer, but I think it was a mistake to let her leave with no trailer brakes.

[flybouy]

If you sell a car to someone and they do a burn out and speed off into the sunset the seller is not responsible. In my thinking, exchange money and and title/bill of sale the deal is done. You can try to inform but it's not the seller's resp[onsability to ensure the safe operation of the vehichle. JMHO

[Northofu1]

it's not the seller's responsibility to ensure the safe operation of the vehichle. JMHO
That's what all the car and rv dealerships do.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

How does the 2019 Spyder work for you? We had a 2010 RT and the missus and I both disliked it as the suspension was AWFUL and the little engine was super buzzy. Had enough power but just wasn't pleasant to drive. I changed shocks and put a heavier sway bar on and it helped but the thing still leaned too much for a trike in heavy cornering. Missus ordered me to get back on a GL1800 trike. Since then we have had several.

We are liking it a lot. Very comfortable, lots of power with the 1330 engine and I of course added the BajaRon front sway bar and it rails in the corners. We are very pleased with it and will put it in the Toy Hauler when we make our trip out west next year to enjoy some of the roads that just need to be ridden.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

it's not the seller's responsibility to ensure the safe operation of the vehichle. JMHO
That's what all the car and rv dealerships do.

And I'll guarentee you that if they passed a law stating a RV dealer couldn't release a trailer over xx lbs unless the buyer was giving a 1 ton truck the guy with the Tundra would get his buddy to pick it up for him.

How many people come to this forum when confronted about their inappropriate tow vehicles say "wow, thanks for letting me know that. I'm going to correct that"? Very few. There are far more that get angry, are argumentative, or just go off on a huff.

Yes, the dealers do the exact same thing, leave it up to the consumer to ensure their safety. It's called personal responsibility. Now, however, when a dealer gives false information and tells someone "you can pull anything on the lot" then I do think they should be held responsible.

Two completely different things in my book.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by xrated

We are liking it a lot. Very comfortable, lots of power with the 1330 engine and I of course added the BajaRon front sway bar and it rails in the corners. We are very pleased with it and will put it in the Toy Hauler when we make our trip out west next year to enjoy some of the roads that just need to be ridden.

Figured they would sort out the RT. The 2010 was not well thought out... I also put on the BajaRon sway bar and some fancy aftermarket front shocks and it was better but not great. We had come off a GL1500 Roadsmith conversion and the missus was spoiled. A Goldwing trike just needs a roof to be a car if it is an IRS. We had a couple solid axles and they do beat up the passenger. I ain't got the money in my golden years to swap trikes or bikes as the urge takes me like I did when I was younger (and made more bucks).

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

And I'll guarentee you that if they passed a law stating a RV dealer couldn't release a trailer over xx lbs unless the buyer was giving a 1 ton truck the guy with the Tundra would get his buddy to pick it up for him. I know people would do that, but if you do the right thing you get to go home with a clear conscience.

How many people come to this forum when confronted about their inappropriate tow vehicles say "wow, thanks for letting me know that. I'm going to correct that"? Very few. There are far more that get angry, are argumentative, or just go off on a huff.
You are right again, the ones that get it spread the word and also help inform people of their towing situations when they see them struggling, and they might go away in a huff as well. You either get it or you don't.

Yes, the dealers do the exact same thing, leave it up to the consumer to ensure their safety. It's called personal responsibility. Now, however, when a dealer gives false information and tells someone "you can pull anything on the lot" then I do think they should be held responsible.
Those folks have an out. You know for a fact that an F150 can't haul 14,000 lbs. but Ford says they can, with the right optioned truck, and it's in a nifty handbook.

Two completely different things in my book.

Marshall,
I'm not answering this to bust your butt, but if a person knows that that 1/2 ton (or older 3/4 with the saggy butt) can't tow that weight and lets someone drive off, your conscience is the interest on the money you just made.
I guess I'm the flawed one.

[tech740]

Originally Posted by xrated

We are liking it a lot. Very comfortable, lots of power with the 1330 engine and I of course added the BajaRon front sway bar and it rails in the corners. We are very pleased with it and will put it in the Toy Hauler when we make our trip out west next year to enjoy some of the roads that just need to be ridden.

Maryville TN is where the tow truck that hauled my rig was out of. He was the only only one with a large enough wrecker available.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Marshall,
I'm not answering this to bust your butt, but if a person knows that that 1/2 ton (or older 3/4 with the saggy butt) can't tow that weight and lets someone drive off, your conscience is the interest on the money you just made.
I guess I'm the flawed one.

There is a difference between being a "responsible seller" (and notifying the purchaser of a conflict/danger) and being a "policeman" (refusing to sell to him because he makes a choice to tow with his vehicle even after being warned of the danger)...

In our society, it's not the role of a seller to "enforce compliance" (other than federally mandated restrictions such as alcohol/tobacco sold to minors, etc)...

There's a fine line between warning of a danger and refusing to sell a product. Think about selling your home as an example. Refuse to sell to someone based on religion, race, gender and you could get sued very quickly. Refuse to sell your RV to someone because they didn't show up with the correct tow vehicle, in today's litigious society, could easily land you in court to explain why you "discriminated" in the transaction.....

Agree or not, even stupid/ignorant people do still have rights. One of them is to purchase items on the free market without being hassled by a "conscientious seller looking to protect everyone from danger".....

IMHO, due diligence, tell the purchaser of the implications, but it's not your "duty" to enforce their compliance.....