GFCI problem

[yek54321]

I have read most of The threads associated with the GFCI problem. My problem sounds pretty much the same except that it occurred in such a manner that it looked like a circuit breaker popping. I was brewing coffee on on my on my Keurig K cup machine and just as it started heating it it the power went off at that outlet in the kitchen near the stove. I have tried resetting the other GFCI located in my bathroom to no avail. I have not tried using a hairdryer on the outside plug, but I will. I experienced a very short very light rain shower the day before this event occurred. It is somewhat perplexing that that we have multiple GFCI‘s on our units, with only one reset in the bathroom. I have troubleshot the power panel fuses and circuit breakers to no good effect. If anyone has any additional information other than what I have read concerning using a hairdryer and praying to God to repair it self, Please let me know. My unit is a 2013 keystone cougar 26 SAB lightweight unit. I bought this unit used recently, and I really like the way it tows. I really don’t care for all of the GFCI‘s. This is the fifth fifth wheel that I have owned and I have not experienced these kind of problems in the past. I’ve had several other issues that I believe are related to the GFCI’s. When I first acquired the unit I was vacuuming it from the outside plug with the with the vacuum cleaner and suddenly lost power at the outlet on the outside of the unit. I never had time to troubleshoot it so I just plugged in an extension cord from the portable generator. I have wired my generator throughout my truck so I can plug-in AC power from the generator right adjacent to where I plug in the trailer plug DC into the truck. I have use this connection with my previous fifth wheel without any problems. When I plugged in the Cougar’s power cord, it tripped my generator off line. As I said earlier, this is my fifth fifth wheel,. My others were: 1993 Cobra, 2004 Mako, 2018 Jayco , and a 2008 Salem. I never had an electrical problem with any of them. Talk about perplexing!

[bsmith0404]

Is your RV 30 or 50 amp? You don’t have multiple GFCI, you just have multiple outlets on the GFCI circuit. Some units have more than one GFCI, typically 50 amp units will have 2, one for each side of the power. Do any of the outlets in the RV work? The hair dryer deal is just an easy way to check outlets because it’s small and portable. Typically the problem is either a tripped GFCI or a tripped circuit breaker.

[chuckster57]

Is the GFCI breaker 15A?

Your Keurig is 1340W, I just had a Class C that did the same thing. Using an Amp clamp I count the Coffee maker drew 13.4 Amps of the available 15. Doesn’t leave much room for any moisture maybe left over in the coffee maker, or maybe in the bathroom. I couldn’t make it trip after resetting everything.

[yek54321]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Is your RV 30 or 50 amp? You don’t have multiple GFCI, you just have multiple outlets on the GFCI circuit. Some units have more than one GFCI, typically 50 amp units will have 2, one for each side of the power. Do any of the outlets in the RV work? The hair dryer deal is just an easy way to check outlets because it’s small and portable. Typically the problem is either a tripped GFCI or a tripped circuit breaker.

30 amp unit. The affected outlet has “GFCI Protected outlet” printed on it. Where is the circuit breaker for the GFCI outlets located? If it is the “reset” located on the bathroom outlet, I have tried tripping and resetting it multiple times with no success. It does turn on and off the bathroom outlet, only.

[yek54321]

All other outlets work.
Thanks for your help

[chuckster57]

I have seen GFCI incorporated into a breaker on the distribution panel.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by yek54321

30 amp unit. The affected outlet has “GFCI Protected outlet” printed on it. Where is the circuit breaker for the GFCI outlets located? If it is the “reset” located on the bathroom outlet, I have tried tripping and resetting it multiple times with no success. It does turn on and off the bathroom outlet, only.

Ok, if the one in the bathroom is resetting and the bathroom outlet is working then the one in the kitchen has another GFCI connected to it somewhere. Have you checked around all of the cabinets? I saw one where the GFCI outlet was under an island with an extension. The owner didn’t even know it was there. Also, as mentioned, it could be incorporated in the breaker panel. Check your circuit breakers. Not sure where it’s located on your unit, typically a brown or black panel about 10” square, it’s also where your fuses are located. Most times it’s at the base of a cabinet in the kitchen area

[RVGator]

I had a similar problem where the outlet was labeled GFCI protected and I only had 1 actual GFCI plug which was in the master bathroom. The GFCI was working, and the breaker panel was not popped, but I still had an outlet not working. My issue was the plug upstream of it, they are tied together, had a wire come loose in the plug. That plug was working but since it had 3 sets of romex jammed in it one of the ground wires had popped up causing the downstream plugs to not work. I suggest figuring by out which olug feeds that one and taking the cover off of it and see what it looks like. Attached is a pic of what it looked like.

[JRTJH]

^^^ This...

If the GFCI is resetting and the outlets in the bathroom are working AND all the other outlets in the galley are working, I'd suspect a "wire connection issue" rather than a GFCI issue.

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by RVGator

I had a similar problem where the outlet was labeled GFCI protected and I only had 1 actual GFCI plug which was in the master bathroom. The GFCI was working, and the breaker panel was not popped, but I still had an outlet not working. My issue was the plug upstream of it, they are tied together, had a wire come loose in the plug. That plug was working but since it had 3 sets of romex jammed in it one of the ground wires had popped up causing the downstream plugs to not work. I suggest figuring by out which olug feeds that one and taking the cover off of it and see what it looks like. Attached is a pic of what it looked like.

Rob - a lifted ground wire would not prevent downstream outlets from working unless the outlets are incorrectly wired. The ground is your safety net and under normal operation never carries current or completes a circuit. I would pull that outlet out again and verify that the ground is not connected where the neutral belongs. Someone could get hurt. Also I believe those RV outlets are designed for one line in and one line out, I don't think the groove the wires get pressed into are designed for three wires. Sorry to highjack a thread but the comment was concerning.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by RVGator

I had a similar problem where the outlet was labeled GFCI protected and I only had 1 actual GFCI plug which was in the master bathroom. The GFCI was working, and the breaker panel was not popped, but I still had an outlet not working. My issue was the plug upstream of it, they are tied together, had a wire come loose in the plug. That plug was working but since it had 3 sets of romex jammed in it one of the ground wires had popped up causing the downstream plugs to not work. I suggest figuring by out which olug feeds that one and taking the cover off of it and see what it looks like. Attached is a pic of what it looked like.

Had the same issue with the bathroom plug, the "line" side of the plug was fine & still hot but the "load" side had arced/shorted out on the cheapo plug so nothing downstream was hot.
I'd also look closely in & under cabinets in the kitchen or outside for another GFCI plug.

[RVGator]

Originally Posted by Gkri

Rob - a lifted ground wire would not prevent downstream outlets from working unless the outlets are incorrectly wired. The ground is your safety net and under normal operation never carries current or completes a circuit. I would pull that outlet out again and verify that the ground is not connected where the neutral belongs. Someone could get hurt. Also I believe those RV outlets are designed for one line in and one line out, I don't think the groove the wires get pressed into are designed for three wires. Sorry to highjack a thread but the comment was concerning.

I replaced the outlet with a residential style one.
Which I recommend if you are pulling it out anyways. The RV ones are garbage.

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by RVGator

I replaced the outlet with a residential style one.
Which I recommend if you are pulling it out anyways. The RV ones are garbage.

agree 100%. replaced several already using the shallow, old construction, boxes with the little "wings". And I never use the receptacle with the spring type push-in connections unless it is the type with a screw clamp.

[yek54321]

Okay, I blew hot air into the outside A/C outlet and the Kitchen over the counter outlet and then exercised the bathroom reset and GFCI circuit breaker and I am registering 3.25 vac at both outlets. The bathroom outlet responded okay. I doubt if the out side outlet has worked since the day I attempted to use my shop vac and it acted as if a circuit breaker had been tripped. Does anyone have any ideas? The problem appears to have been caused by drawing too much current in both circumstances. I have tried resetting all circuit breakers. I guess I will try and wire trace on a schematic.

[yek54321]

Are you replacing the outlets with “standard” or GFCI outlets ?

[Gkri]

i replaced non-GFCI outlets. The GFCI's are not the cheap RV style and have actual screw clamps for good contact are with the wires. GFCI's have line and load markings to have GFCI protection on downstream piggy-backed outlets. Make sure the wires from the circuit breaker are on the Line side and wiring to downstream outlets marked "GFIC Protected" are on the Load side. Old electric motor appliances that are arcing due to worn out motor winding can trip a GFCI. I'd open up each outlet to see if a wire popped out of the little V shaped slot they are pushed into. The RV outlets cut through the insulation and have two small touch points for carrying current. Very easy to cause overheating and failure in the outlet.

[wiredgeorge]

To explain the little "V" shaped deals that were described by Gkri above, these are blades where you push the wire into them and they slice the insulation. It is much quicker to install these and hence cheaper during construction than stripping a bit of wire and wrapping around a lug/screw connection although an accomplished electrician can do it very quickly. The folks who put together campers are not accomplished electricians and speed is the key to their job performance and perhaps not quality. A professional can work both fast and good but a line assembler? Well fast perhaps.

[yek54321]

Thank you for your input. I I took apart one of the GFCI‘s in the kitchen today and saw exactly what you were talking about I cleaned it up in terms of peeling the insulation back and giving maximum exposure to the V-shaped gripper contacts that you mentioned. I purchased a couple of new GFCI outlets, but they weren’t the correct ones. Having owned a couple of park models, I recognize the inexpensive outlets. The interesting part of this story is that the first outlet to go was at he end of the GFCI chain. The most recent one in the kitchen is the second link and the controlling first link is the resettable one in the bathroom that still reworks as advertised.I believe that the failed units were damaged by individual current overloads and require replacement. All of my “unprotected “ outlets are functioning fine. Stay tuned.

[yek54321]

Thanks for your interest and help. Please see my reply to Gcfi. I will post the results of my next attempt to correct this problem.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by yek54321

Thank you for your input. I I took apart one of the GFCI‘s in the kitchen today and saw exactly what you were talking about I cleaned it up in terms of peeling the insulation back and giving maximum exposure to the V-shaped gripper contacts that you mentioned. I purchased a couple of new GFCI outlets, but they weren’t the correct ones. Having owned a couple of park models, I recognize the inexpensive outlets. The interesting part of this story is that the first outlet to go was at he end of the GFCI chain. The most recent one in the kitchen is the second link and the controlling first link is the resettable one in the bathroom that still reworks as advertised.I believe that the failed units were damaged by individual current overloads and require replacement. All of my “unprotected “ outlets are functioning fine. Stay tuned.

The bolded statement above is a very plausible explination. One of the several issues with these outlets is the very small friction only contact area by a very thin sliver of metal. When a high amperage load is applied the small contact are can create extensive heat. The heat spreads the metal and can lead to the metal loosing it's friction on the wire. If the wire has a little stress on it the blade will release the wire and it will pop out of place.

A similar issue can happen with the inexpensive outlets builders use in houses where they shove a section of bared wire in a hole vs using the screw terminal. IMHO if you are going to use an outlet in a camper for a "high load", long duration use device like a space heater or coffee maker then replace the outlet.

When testing an outlet spend the $5 and buy an outlet tester, don't use a blow dryer or other appliance. Why? Only an outlet tester or volt meter (if you know how to use it) will tell you if the outlet is wired properly.