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Old 08-21-2021, 10:59 AM   #1
Campy
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Trailer weights, what do they think we own to tow with?

While on vacation we went looking at new toy haulers and was shocked at the weight of these things. Not to mention pin weight. Some of the nicer ones are pushing 20k with pin weights at 4000 pounds.
One really nice toy hauler we looked at had really ugly steel wheels on it and the salesman said the aluminum wheels are not rated for the weight/twisting force of the heavy 3 axle trailer.
Gonna have to rethink the toy hauler thing...
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Old 08-21-2021, 11:33 AM   #2
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They think you haul with a dually.
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Old 08-21-2021, 11:41 AM   #3
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Toy haulers are a "special breed of trailer"... They are usually "hitch/pin heavy" to compensate for the increased load in the garage when loaded and towing with their intended cargo. That makes them "EXTREMELY vulnerable" to high pin weights, especially when towing without a full garage....

In the early days of toyhaulers, we had some "conventional hitch toy hauler owners" who have had to resort to putting sand bags under the front bed just to approach 10% tongue weight when they loaded the garage. So, the manufacturers "answered that problem" with increased pin/tongue weight and created another issue, that of inadequate payload on trucks to haul the larger ones... Few toyhaulers in the "over 38' lengths" can be towed with a SRW truck and some of the larger ones require "more than a dually"....

As for steel vs aluminum wheels, there are several aluminum wheels available from various wheel manufacturers that have the load capacity ratings for the larger triple axle trailers. If a salesman told you a specific trailer had steel wheels because of load ratings, I'd look more at the manufacturer and where that model is 'cutting corners on equipment" to keep the MSRP in a specific price range... If installing aluminum wheels is their answer to lower price, I'd wonder what else is "under budget but hidden from customer's view".... Hmmmmm
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Old 08-21-2021, 01:03 PM   #4
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They think you haul with a dually.
The 2021 Chevy "dually" 3500HD is only rated at 17200 (5th wheel) so it's not enough truck for several we looked at.
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Old 08-21-2021, 01:49 PM   #5
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The 2021 Chevy "dually" 3500HD is only rated at 17200 (5th wheel) so it's not enough truck for several we looked at.
Say whatttttttttt!
GM finally gave their DRW to 14,000# GVWR in 2020, but restrict the towing capacity to 17,200#? What is the rear gear on your DRW?
Our 2016 Ram 3500 has a towing capacity of 25,225# with 3.73 rear gears and a payload of 5,411#.
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Old 08-21-2021, 02:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Toy haulers are a "special breed of trailer"... They are usually "hitch/pin heavy" to compensate for the increased load in the garage when loaded and towing with their intended cargo. That makes them "EXTREMELY vulnerable" to high pin weights, especially when towing without a full garage....

In the early days of toyhaulers, we had some "conventional hitch toy hauler owners" who have had to resort to putting sand bags under the front bed just to approach 10% tongue weight when they loaded the garage. So, the manufacturers "answered that problem" with increased pin/tongue weight and created another issue, that of inadequate payload on trucks to haul the larger ones... Few toyhaulers in the "over 38' lengths" can be towed with a SRW truck and some of the larger ones require "more than a dually"....

As for steel vs aluminum wheels, there are several aluminum wheels available from various wheel manufacturers that have the load capacity ratings for the larger triple axle trailers. If a salesman told you a specific trailer had steel wheels because of load ratings, I'd look more at the manufacturer and where that model is 'cutting corners on equipment" to keep the MSRP in a specific price range... If installing aluminum wheels is their answer to lower price, I'd wonder what else is "under budget but hidden from customer's view".... Hmmmmm
Could also be difficulty getting the wheels…( for the trailer manufacturer)…when I looked at new trucks in December I found a loaded Chevy ltz pickupdually with steel wheels from the factory…salesman told me they were having trouble getting them with nicer wheels because of covid delays
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Old 08-21-2021, 03:05 PM   #7
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Could also be difficulty getting the wheels…when I looked at new trucks in December I found a loaded Chevy ltz pickupdually with steel wheels from the factory…salesman told me they were having trouble getting them with nicer wheels because of covid delays
I'd rather have steel wheels on dually, oh... wait I do 😁 makes tire rotation a breeze.

As for load limits on aluminum wheels, the ones on my Avalanche are 4400 pounds
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Old 08-21-2021, 03:24 PM   #8
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I'd rather have steel wheels on dually, oh... wait I do 😁 makes tire rotation a breeze.

As for load limits on aluminum wheels, the ones on my Avalanche are 4400 pounds
It would be a lot easier…I have steel wheels on my jeep and I had an 84 f250 single cab with steel wheels…really
liked that old truck
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Old 08-21-2021, 03:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Toy haulers are a "special breed of trailer"... They are usually "hitch/pin heavy" to compensate for the increased load in the garage when loaded and towing with their intended cargo. That makes them "EXTREMELY vulnerable" to high pin weights, especially when towing without a full garage....

In the early days of toyhaulers, we had some "conventional hitch toy hauler owners" who have had to resort to putting sand bags under the front bed just to approach 10% tongue weight when they loaded the garage. So, the manufacturers "answered that problem" with increased pin/tongue weight and created another issue, that of inadequate payload on trucks to haul the larger ones... Few toyhaulers in the "over 38' lengths" can be towed with a SRW truck and some of the larger ones require "more than a dually"....

As for steel vs aluminum wheels, there are several aluminum wheels available from various wheel manufacturers that have the load capacity ratings for the larger triple axle trailers. If a salesman told you a specific trailer had steel wheels because of load ratings, I'd look more at the manufacturer and where that model is 'cutting corners on equipment" to keep the MSRP in a specific price range... If installing aluminum wheels is their answer to lower price, I'd wonder what else is "under budget but hidden from customer's view".... Hmmmmm
John....you have a very good memory of my situation. In addition to the two 60 lb sandtubes under the bed, I removed the one 12V battery and added two 6v. Trojan T105s, plus I put a 35 lb barbell weight under the cargo slide tray.....and usually carried about 50 gallons or so of fresh water. If I remember correctly, I finally got the tongue weight at about 11.5% when I had the two motorcycles and all my gear in the garage. That sure was some fun times, and one of the members here ended up buying that trailer from the place I traded it in.
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Old 08-21-2021, 03:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Campy View Post
While on vacation we went looking at new toy haulers and was shocked at the weight of these things. Not to mention pin weight. Some of the nicer ones are pushing 20k with pin weights at 4000 pounds.
One really nice toy hauler we looked at had really ugly steel wheels on it and the salesman said the aluminum wheels are not rated for the weight/twisting force of the heavy 3 axle trailer.
Gonna have to rethink the toy hauler thing...
Are you talking about something like this? GVWR = 20,000 lbs, triple 7K axles, Pin weight at about 4000 lbs....and a Ford Dually with 5270 lbs of payload. The bigger trailers definitely require a Dually size truck....some go with a 350, some 450, some even buy the Medium Duty size haulers.

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Old 08-21-2021, 04:29 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Campy View Post
While on vacation we went looking at new toy haulers and was shocked at the weight of these things. Not to mention pin weight. Some of the nicer ones are pushing 20k with pin weights at 4000 pounds.
One really nice toy hauler we looked at had really ugly steel wheels on it and the salesman said the aluminum wheels are not rated for the weight/twisting force of the heavy 3 axle trailer.
Gonna have to rethink the toy hauler thing...
So guys, I think they were addressing the steel wheels on the toy hauler, not the truck. But, that said, my toy hauler has aluminum wheels and it's GVWR is 18000 so?
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Old 08-21-2021, 04:50 PM   #12
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So guys, I think they were addressing the steel wheels on the toy hauler, not the truck. But, that said, my toy hauler has aluminum wheels and it's GVWR is 18000 so?
Yes I realize it was the trailer wheels…my point was that truck manufacturers were having supply issues on wheels so maybe trailer manufacturers were as well

I edited my post to make it clearer…apologies
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Old 08-22-2021, 06:15 AM   #13
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The 2021 Chevy "dually" 3500HD is only rated at 17200 (5th wheel) so it's not enough truck for several we looked at.
Out of the big 3, I’ve owned them all. Currently running a RAM 3500 DRW Cummins HO. Everyone asks me when I’ll get another chevy. My response, simple “when I want the least capable truck in terms of towing driving down the road”. LOL

In terms of camper weight, once you get into the heavier dual axle and into the triple axle, everyone is assuming you are running a 1 ton truck, DRW with a prius in the tower hauler part. LOL
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Old 08-22-2021, 06:18 AM   #14
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Are you talking about something like this? GVWR = 20,000 lbs, triple 7K axles, Pin weight at about 4000 lbs....and a Ford Dually with 5270 lbs of payload. The bigger trailers definitely require a Dually size truck....some go with a 350, some 450, some even buy the Medium Duty size haulers.

Assuming that is your rig? Very nice! How do you like it?
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Old 08-22-2021, 09:19 AM   #15
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Assuming that is your rig? Very nice! How do you like it?
Yes sir, and thank you for that. It was purchased by us in Feb. 2019 as an early retirement gift to us. We are really enjoying it a lot. We've had a few very minor issues, things that I've been able to take care of myself, but overall, it's been good. We have done a ton of mods to it, and made it more personal, as well as doing things add comfort and safety (Progressive EMS, water sensor in the basement behind the Nautilus panel). It has the Norcold 2118 4 door refrigerator in it, and that has been a bit of a struggle, but that seems to be the case no matter what brand trailer you have...whether it has a Norcold 12 cu ft or the 18 cu ft like ours. I've done some things to it to try and make it work more efficiently and stay at colder temperatures, and hopefully it will pay off on our almost month long trip to AZ, UT, AR, etc. If not, I may just end up buying a 12V compressor model fridge next year and get rid of it....we'll see in the coming months.
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Old 08-22-2021, 09:23 AM   #16
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Yes sir, it was purchased by us in Feb. 2019 as an early retirement gift to us. We are really enjoying it a lot. We've had a few very minor issues, things that I've been able to take care of myself, but overall, it's been good. We have done a ton of mods to it, and made it more personal, as well as doing things add comfort and safety (Progressive EMS, water sensor in the basement behind the Nautilus panel). It has the Norcold 2118 4 door refrigerator in it, and that has been a bit of a struggle, but that seems to be the case no matter what brand trailer you have....it it has a Norcold 12 cu ft or the 18 cu ft like ours. I've done some things to it to try and make it work more efficiently and stay at colder temperatures, and hopefully it will pay off on our almost month long trip to AZ, UT, AR, etc. If not, I may just end up buying a 12V compressor model fridge next year and get rid of it....we'll see in the coming months.
We have the same Fridge in ours. It’s the 18cu ft version. We found if you don’t load it down (fill it up to much) it works better.

We are looking at getting a new Fuzion, which also has that fridge in it. What Fridge Models can you swap it out with? I wouldn’t mind potentially looking at something residential or the 12v fridge that comes in the Avalanches.
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:11 AM   #17
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Out of the big 3, I’ve owned them all. Currently running a RAM 3500 DRW Cummins HO. Everyone asks me when I’ll get another chevy. My response, simple “when I want the least capable truck in terms of towing driving down the road”. LOL

In terms of camper weight, once you get into the heavier dual axle and into the triple axle, everyone is assuming you are running a 1 ton truck, DRW with a prius in the tower hauler part. LOL
I'd have to agree on the tow vehicle of choice. I too have the 2021 RAM 3500 Dually, with H.O Cummins. It pulls my Fusion 369 with such ease, it is simply amazing.
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:12 AM   #18
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I'd have to agree on the tow vehicle of choice. I too have the 2021 RAM 3500 Dually, with H.O Cummins. It pulls my Fusion 369 with such ease, it is simply amazing.
Towing with these RAM's is pretty impressive I must say.
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Old 08-23-2021, 12:04 PM   #19
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Campy, three axles underneath has little to do with heavy weight. Our Suites weighs in at 19,800 with a gross of 20k and it as two 'axles' of sorts. The RV is supported by 17.5 inch tires. Pin about 4100.
And one other thing, we can see where you've already been corrected on your statement (I can't figure who told you this) concerning the towing capacity of GM's dually. It is every bit as capable as any of the big three.
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Old 08-23-2021, 01:37 PM   #20
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We have the same Fridge in ours. It’s the 18cu ft version. We found if you don’t load it down (fill it up to much) it works better.

We are looking at getting a new Fuzion, which also has that fridge in it. What Fridge Models can you swap it out with? I wouldn’t mind potentially looking at something residential or the 12v fridge that comes in the Avalanches.
I haven't research it yet to see what could/would fit in the Norcold 2118 space in our trailer. We too have the 18 cu ft 4 door model. If I'm not mistaken, any of the residential type and the 12V compressor type will require space on the sides and the top of fridge to allow some airflow....free standing if you will. Things will like change even more over the next 6 or 8 months, which is the earliest I would be doing anything as far as changing out the Norcold. And, all of that will depend on how well it works or not during our upcoming month long trip out west after I did the Muddypaws mod to the thermistor in the fresh food compartment. I tried it right after I did the mod and with a setting of "3" out of 9, the fridge got to and held around 38 degrees and the freezer was staying in the 12 to 14 degree range. So loading it up and setting it on 5, hopefully will produce some very good results for us while travelling to our destination and all the time we are gone from home.
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