First time buyer passport 239ML need some advise..

[aboyz]

I'm planning to purchase the passport 239ML. I got a couple of questions.

1. The dealer says the MSRP is listed at $31,000. What price range should I get average OTD price? is a 20% off OTD price good deal? or just OK deal?
2. I'm in the Riverside, CA and one dealer gave me OTD price $31,200 and another dealer in arizona gave me a price for $26,500 OTD. Arizona drive is 380miles. Is it worth the time to drive up there and get it? or find some other dealer local and get it down to around $27,500 OTD?
3. What place to go to to do some travel trailer pricing and comparison?
4. Will my tacoma truck good enough to to wthis.

I got a tacoma TRD sport 4x4 2020. Attached is the GVWR 5600lb and also pasenger weight of 900lb.
I'm getting this trailer. passport SL 239ml
shipping weight = 4,430 lb.
carrying capacity = 2,000 lb.
hitch = 436 lb.
tire size = ST205/75R15D

Family weight = 400lbs
food = 100lbs
bike = 50 lbs
blanket/pillow = 50lbs
pots/pan/etc 50lbs
misc = 100lbs


I will be getting the brake controller P3 and also weight distrubition Equalizer E2 and a backup wireless camera.

I think I should be able to handle this pretty nicely right? I live in California, Riverside, and just camping around this area within a 100miles radius.
Should be good? please advise if i'm missing anything.

thank you..

[flybouy]

I question the 2 K carrying capacity of the trailer. Shipping weight is empty and a useless number as it does not include the battery or LP tanks., so use the GVW of the trailer. With your numbers that's 6,430 lbs. Tongue weight should be around 13% of trailer GVW so 6,430 lbs X .13 = 840 lbs. Then add another 120 lbs for a good WDH and you are strapping 960 lbs on the truck before anyone sets in it.

Using your numbers the Toyota ain't gonna make it.

[aboyz]

What? are you sure. i read in the tacoma forum , maybe people have tacoma pulling this all day long.. Maybe i'm missing something. Attached is the sticker on my truck. I think i'm reading my truck wrong. it can do max 6200lb?


https://imgur.com/a/9Bg3p5j

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by aboyz

What? are you sure. i read in the tacoma forum , maybe people have tacoma pulling this all day long.. Maybe i'm missing something. Attached is the sticker on my truck. I think i'm reading my truck wrong. it can do max 6200lb?


https://imgur.com/a/9Bg3p5j

The sticker you posted lists 990 lbs of payload. Max towing is a misleading number. That's calculated pulling a flatbed trailer with a load that has very little tongue weight and is a useless number when it comes to towing campers.

That 990 lbs. of payload was what the factory states is the maximum the day the truck left the factory. Anything YOU or the dealer have added to the truck like a push bar, side bars, mud flaps, bedliner, tool box, tools, floor mats, and even the cup off coffee in the cup holder REDUCES that payload number.

That's the numbers, that's real, not "seat of the pants" or BS. I don't know what folks in the truck forum are saying but the numbers are what they are.

[dutchmensport]

Originally Posted by aboyz

...
2. .... Arizona drive is 380miles. Is it worth the time to drive up there and get it? ...

Absolutely! You WILL eventually be taking trips with your new camper that will be much farther than 380 miles from home. For the better price? Yes, it's worth it. When you go to pick it up, make a mini-vacation out of it. Plan on a full day at the dealership when you pick it up. Plan your first night at a nearby campground. Return home a couple days later and just have fun.

[flybouy]

Dutch I think you posted this in the wrong place? My bad, thought I was reading a different post. It's hell getting old.

[linux3]

We saved around $4,000.00 by traveling ~250 miles to buy our TT.
Stayed over night in a motel and got to the dealer early for plenty of time for inspection.

Local dealer here does annual inspection and any service I may want and happy to take my money.

That beings said, your Tacoma, as flyboy said, isn't going to cut it.
It doesn't matter what the tacoma forums say, do the math. You can't carry that much weight.
It's a non stop issue on this forum. The ratings given for trucks just don't apply to RVs.
The issues are max LOAD capacity, length and wind.
You can only have a legal load of 990 lbs, the length of the TT means the tail will be wagging the dog and when semi's pass you your suspension will have trouble keeping everything in line.

[aboyz]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

Absolutely! You WILL eventually be taking trips with your new camper that will be much farther than 380 miles from home. For the better price? Yes, it's worth it. When you go to pick it up, make a mini-vacation out of it. Plan on a full day at the dealership when you pick it up. Plan your first night at a nearby campground. Return home a couple days later and just have fun.

yeah that is what i'm planning to do. drive up there in the morning. pick it up in the afternoon, and go to a nearby campground and stay there for 2 nights and come back. sound like a good mini vacation ..

When going over the walk thru of the trailer. what should i look for? to make sure everything is working? like gas, stove, water and AC all that? anything in specific i should be looking for in case major issues when i bring it back home.

[SacDan]

It's a seller's market right now. Used to be able get a 30% + discount of the MSRP. Dealers are not so willing these days. Travelling 400 miles is well worth the saving IMO.

[aboyz]

Originally Posted by linux3

We saved around $4,000.00 by traveling ~250 miles to buy our TT.
Stayed over night in a motel and got to the dealer early for plenty of time for inspection.

Local dealer here does annual inspection and any service I may want and happy to take my money.

That beings said, your Tacoma, as flyboy said, isn't going to cut it.
It doesn't matter what the tacoma forums say, do the math. You can't carry that much weight.
It's a non stop issue on this forum. The ratings given for trucks just don't apply to RVs.
The issues are max LOAD capacity, length and wind.
You can only have a legal load of 990 lbs, the length of the TT means the tail will be wagging the dog and when semi's pass you your suspension will have trouble keeping everything in line.

I really wanted to get this model because of the dual axle. the one axle only have two wheel and its a safety concern. If that is the case I'll look for a lighter trailer.. The reason i'm getting this is becuase my tacoma lease will be over in 2 year. I will get a tundra with more horse power. I don't want to buy small on the trailer for future use. know what i mean?? this is a hard decision.

look at this guy towing a 4300lbs travel trailer. no issues, same car same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FtSfzPFX3o&t=279s

also check out this tacoma forum as people two it with no issues.
http://www.tacomaforum.com/threads/t...trailers.9027/

[flybouy]

Personally I think this is bad advice. Never towed before, first trip with a new setup, 6 or more hours from home, an inadequate overloaded truck with squishy P metric tires to boot. I'm glad I'm not on the same roads.

[JRTJH]

I'm not sure where you got the specifications for the Passport 239ML, but the carrying capacity is NOT 2000 pounds. According to the 2019 brochure, here are the specs:

Empty weight: 4189 (essentially a worthless number because you'll never see an empty trailer)
Cargo Capacity: 1211

GVW: 4189+1211 = 5400 pounds

Tongue weight: (adv) 425 (again, you'll NEVER see this weight once you add batteries, propane to the tanks and any cargo to the trailer)

Realistic Tongue weight: 11-15% of GVW: 594-810

To that you'll need to also add the weight of your hitch, usually 125-175 pounds.

Now, as for pricing, the 239ML is no longer being manufactured. It has been replaced by the SL series 219BH. Many of the internet sales list the trailer as "Passport Express SL 219BH (239ML)" On the Keystone website, the 219BH is listed with an MSRP of $25,734. The "older Passport 239ML" was listed $26,801 https://www.keystonerv.com/product/p...trailers/specs

Now, I was surprised to see your Toyota payload was so small. With a 990 pound payload, deducting the "light end tongue weight" (best case) of 600 pounds, then adding a 125 pound hitch, you're already at 725 pounds, and that's before you put even a driver in the vehicle. So, while others may be claiming they regularly tow that trailer with similar vehicles, they may well have a different suspension and/or other considerations that significantly increase the payload on their specific truck. I don't see any way to "within the certified ratings of your truck" tow a trailer of that size "and stay under the limits"..... YMMV

As for what to pay for the trailer, most people can easily negotiate 30-35% off MSRP, then add tax, title and registration. Depending on where you're located, delivery charges may range from $100 (around the factory) to several thousand for a cross country delivery.

You can "browse through 38 listings" for that trailer at this link: https://www.rvtrader.com/Passport-23...ssport%20239ML Some are new, some are used, all are priced with what the dealer "hopes to get" at retail. These prices are with no negotiations involved, so I'd suspect every one of them will actually sell for significantly less than the asking price.

[aboyz]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'm not sure where you got the specifications for the Passport 239ML, but the carrying capacity is NOT 2000 pounds. According to the 2019 brochure, here are the specs:

Empty weight: 4189 (essentially a worthless number because you'll never see an empty trailer)
Cargo Capacity: 1211

GVW: 4189+1211 = 5400 pounds

Tongue weight: (adv) 425 (again, you'll NEVER see this weight once you add batteries, propane to the tanks and any cargo to the trailer)

Realistic Tongue weight: 11-15% of GVW: 594-810

To that you'll need to also add the weight of your hitch, usually 125-175 pounds.

Now, as for pricing, the 239ML is no longer being manufactured. It has been replaced by the SL series 219BH. Many of the internet sales list the trailer as "Passport Express SL 219BH (239ML)" On the Keystone website, the 219BH is listed with an MSRP of $25,734. The "older Passport 239ML" was listed $26,801 https://www.keystonerv.com/product/p...trailers/specs

Now, I was surprised to see your Toyota payload was so small. With a 990 pound payload, deducting the "light end tongue weight" (best case) of 600 pounds, then adding a 125 pound hitch, you're already at 725 pounds, and that's before you put even a driver in the vehicle. So, while others may be claiming they regularly tow that trailer with similar vehicles, they may well have a different suspension and/or other considerations that significantly increase the payload on their specific truck. I don't see any way to "within the certified ratings of your truck" tow a trailer of that size "and stay under the limits"..... YMMV

As for what to pay for the trailer, most people can easily negotiate 30-35% off MSRP, then add tax, title and registration. Depending on where you're located, delivery charges may range from $100 (around the factory) to several thousand for a cross country delivery.

You can "browse through 38 listings" for that trailer at this link: https://www.rvtrader.com/Passport-23...ssport%20239ML Some are new, some are used, all are priced with what the dealer "hopes to get" at retail. These prices are with no negotiations involved, so I'd suspect every one of them will actually sell for significantly less than the asking price.

Thank you for the info.. I think my truck can only handle bullet. passport SL is way too heavy for me..

I"m thinking about getting this. https://www.keystonerv.com/product/b...orplans/1700BH

what do you guys think? any concern i should be worry?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by aboyz

Thank you for the info.. I think my truck can only handle bullet. passport SL is way too heavy for me..

I"m thinking about getting this. https://www.keystonerv.com/product/b...orplans/1700BH

what do you guys think? any concern i should be worry?

There is one member who is active on the forum (CrazyCain) who tows a trailer of similar size with a Chevy 1500. Hopefully he will "chime in" with his thoughts. Remember, a single axle trailer is ALWAYS going to be more prone to sway, bow wave movement and crosswinds than a dual axle trailer.

[sourdough]

OP, you're truck cannot safely tow that trailer by any stretch of the imagination. Here is a link to the trailer;

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/p...rplans/239MLWE

You wills see that it has a 4430 dry weight and 2000lb. payload = 6430 lbs. of trailer - behind a truck with a MAX gvw of 5600lbs (per your sticker). Calculate tongue weight of the trailer at 13% and you get 836lbs. Add 120 for a weight distribution hitch and you are at 956lbs. At this point you have not put a person, coke cup....ANYTHING in the truck. It isn't up to the task - at all.

Look a little further; your tires are suggested to run at 29 PSI!!! You can't tow a trailer that size with P tires at 29psi....the vehicle was never meant for it.

You can forget the "Tacoma" forum as a place for advice on towing anything. A Tacoma, properly equipped (yours is not), might pull a very small trailer but yours isn't. The forum is populated with Tacoma "fans" that pat themselves on the back, make wild claims and pump each other up over having the baddest "whatever" out there (many forums do). Used to do that as a kid but no longer.

As was previously stated, numbers don't lie. In your case those numbers are not good for your hopes. I don't know what the other specs on your truck are but with that low payload I suspect you have a 4 cylinder, less robust Tacoma??

Edit: After posting I saw OP had changed his mind about what trailer to pursue....great.

[aboyz]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There is one member who is active on the forum (CrazyCain) who tows a trailer of similar size with a Chevy 1500. Hopefully he will "chime in" with his thoughts. Remember, a single axle trailer is ALWAYS going to be more prone to sway, bow wave movement and crosswinds than a dual axle trailer.

Thank you. that was excatly my issues the single axle trailer will prone to sway more than the dual axle. But any dual axle trailer will have a weight of 4000+ so that is out of the question. So much hassle just getting a trailer and a truck that can support it. Pulling my hair out!!!

[aboyz]

Originally Posted by sourdough

OP, you're truck cannot safely tow that trailer by any stretch of the imagination. Here is a link to the trailer;

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/p...rplans/239MLWE

You wills see that it has a 4430 dry weight and 2000lb. payload = 6430 lbs. of trailer - behind a truck with a MAX gvw of 5600lbs (per your sticker). Calculate tongue weight of the trailer at 13% and you get 836lbs. Add 120 for a weight distribution hitch and you are at 956lbs. At this point you have not put a person, coke cup....ANYTHING in the truck. It isn't up to the task - at all.

Look a little further; your tires are suggested to run at 29 PSI!!! You can't tow a trailer that size with P tires at 29psi....the vehicle was never meant for it.

You can forget the "Tacoma" forum as a place for advice on towing anything. A Tacoma, properly equipped (yours is not), might pull a very small trailer but yours isn't. The forum is populated with Tacoma "fans" that pat themselves on the back, make wild claims and pump each other up over having the baddest "whatever" out there (many forums do). Used to do that as a kid but no longer.

As was previously stated, numbers don't lie. In your case those numbers are not good for your hopes. I don't know what the other specs on your truck are but with that low payload I suspect you have a 4 cylinder, less robust Tacoma??

Edit: After posting I saw OP had changed his mind about what trailer to pursue....great.

Yeah. thank you for pointing it out. I cannot fight with you guys. since you guys are the expert . I need to fit in. So with all this comment and suggestion I have decided to focus on a Bullet 1700BH, as that is the higher end of springdale and hideout and also the white cabinet and chrome appliance look much higher class.

So my question is MSRP is around $21,000. I should be able to get it down to $15,000 + tax and registration fee?

Does that offer sound reasonable? or am I pushing the limit?

[flybouy]

Reminds me of the Chevy S10 I bought in 2001 IIRC. It was rated atn5K towing capacity. I bought a Keystone Cabana, 21' dual axle hybrid. What a handful. Didn't take long to figure that one out. Anyway I put a fiberglass lid on the bed. My neighbor asked me why I spent the moony on the color matched fiberglass lid vs a tonneau cover. I told him I had bought a car without a truck lid so I wanted the paint to match on the trunk lid.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by aboyz

Yeah. thank you for pointing it out. I cannot fight with you guys. since you guys are the expert . I need to fit in. So with all this comment and suggestion I have decided to focus on a Bullet 1700BH, as that is the higher end of springdale and hideout and also the white cabinet and chrome appliance look much higher class.

So my question is MSRP is around $21,000. I should be able to get it down to $15,000 + tax and registration fee?

Does that offer sound reasonable? or am I pushing the limit?

I don't know about that mark down but doubt it. I bought mine in March just as all the "pandemic" was breaking out. I got a little over 30% off MSRP which was very consistent on the same trailer over 3 states. With an msrp of 21k I don't know, but doubt, if they have that much fluff they can/will take off.

[flybouy]

abozs I'm glad you're reconsidering your decision. In an earlier statement you said you wanted dual axles for "safety concerns" but it appeared to me that you weren't concerned with the safety of the truck being overloaded. I thought your mind was set.

Anyway, I think there's several price factors. The market (as in overall economy), the local market, demand for the product, the product itself (like cars, there's a larger profit margin in the luxury segment then the economy models), your credit rating if financing etc. I don't think anyone can "reasonably" say what you should pay. As with any negotiation go in offering less than you are willing to spend and commit to walking away if they are unwilling to come down to the most that you are willing to spend.