Truck Advice for Novice

[noezoom]

Hi All,

I'm trying to do things the right way and I think I'm good so far. I have found a fifth wheel model I want to buy, now I need to figure out how much truck it will take to haul it.

I have decided Ford is going to be our brand. Now I have to figure out which one.

The 5th wheel specs say its unloaded weight is 10338 lbs with a hitch weight of 1935 lbs. Based on my reading, a hitch weight below 20% of the dry weight is suspicious. Which one do I go with? If I assume 1500 lbs of extras, the worst case, 25%, would put the hitch weight at 2960 lbs. I don't even know if that's reasonable and it's over 1000 lbs past the spec's hitch weight.

I would assume the weight of my family, our stuff, and a sliding hitch is about (350+50+200) is 600 lbs. So I would need to find a truck with a sticker that says the hauling capacity is well over (600+2960) 3560 lbs. Does my math check out?

I don't even know what to expect from the towing capacity on the sticker in an F250 vs. F350. Would you expect an F250 to be able to handle that?

On top of that, I've heard that an F350 can require a commercial license to operate in some states. Would my proposed rig put me in that territory? That sounds like something I wouldn't want to deal with.

Thanks for your patient responses!

[Vinnie]

In California, you're required to get a class A, non-commercial license if you're pulling a fifth-wheel trailer that has a GVWR of greater than 15000 pounds, or a standard trailer over 10000 pounds. The licensing is based on the state you live in, and other states have reciprocity agreements, where they won't require a greater license if you are within the restrictions of your home state.

As I have learned, the hard way, for load weight on your truck, find the GVWR of the trailer, and use an approximation of about 22% for your anticipated pin weight. If you're considering any of the larger fifth wheels, just get the dually.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by noezoom

Hi All,

I'm trying to do things the right way and I think I'm good so far. I have found a fifth wheel model I want to buy, now I need to figure out how much truck it will take to haul it.

I have decided Ford is going to be our brand. Now I have to figure out which one.

The 5th wheel specs say its unloaded weight is 10338 lbs with a hitch weight of 1935 lbs. Based on my reading, a hitch weight below 20% of the dry weight is suspicious. Which one do I go with? If I assume 1500 lbs of extras, the worst case, 25%, would put the hitch weight at 2960 lbs. I don't even know if that's reasonable and it's over 1000 lbs past the spec's hitch weight.

I would assume the weight of my family, our stuff, and a sliding hitch is about (350+50+200) is 600 lbs. So I would need to find a truck with a sticker that says the hauling capacity is well over (600+2960) 3560 lbs. Does my math check out?

I don't even know what to expect from the towing capacity on the sticker in an F250 vs. F350. Would you expect an F250 to be able to handle that?

On top of that, I've heard that an F350 can require a commercial license to operate in some states. Would my proposed rig put me in that territory? That sounds like something I wouldn't want to deal with.

Thanks for your patient responses!

To make this as painless as possible... Forget about dry weight and advertised hitch weight... PERIOD

Use GVWR for the trailer....

Hitch or pin weight is a little more complicated... look at the storage in the trailer.. mine is all in front of the axles... the only thing behind the axles is the freshwater tank, TV and couch

My 5th wheel.. has a 25% pin weight

[Vinnie]

This should make your brain hurt.

These are the tow ratings. You'll never reach these numbers. More important is the GVWR of the truck, from which you subtract curb weight (that gives you the yellow sticker load capacity), then people, cargo, hitch, and pin, as you have correctly done already.

GVWRs for Fords: F250- c.10000 / F350- c.11000 / F350 DRW- 14000

And damn you're a lightweight bunch! If my family was 350lbs, I'd have to be single!

[jsb5717]

Welcome aboard! You're smart to be asking before the purchase.

Which model of 5er are you considering? My guess is you are likely in the neighborhood of 14k Lbs GVWR with a 10338 empty weight. That will translate to a pin weight in the neighborhood of 31-3300 lbs. To be safe you'll need to be thinking a 1 ton truck.

Get the GVWR from the trailer you're looking at, check the payload for the specific truck you're looking at and do all of the math.

It's easier to enjoy the journey with you plan for safety.

[Vinnie]

Here ya go- load ratings (not taking into consideration option packages, which also add weight). This is based on the 2020 model year. Somebody mentioned the 2021 F350 has an upgraded frame and higher GVWR, but I've not seen it.

edit: the "opt" numbers with footnotes are for the packages with GVWRs artificially reduced for insurance purposes. You likely won't be buying one of those so disregard the numbers after the slash.

[JRTJH]

As a "general rule" expect a diesel engine to reduce payload by about 800 pounds.

So, a 2020 F250 gas truck typically has a payload ranging from about 2800-3000 pounds. That same truck with a diesel will be about 800 pounds lower or around 2000-2200 pounds of total payload.

A 2020 F350 SRW gas truck typically has a payload around 3800-4500 pounds and a F350 diesel SRW would have a payload around 3000-3800 pounds.

To be "close to a ballpark pin weight" as stated, use the trailer GVW and estimate a pin weight around 22% of that GVW. So, a fifth wheel with a GVW of 13,000 pounds, expect a pin weight close to 2860 pounds. Add the hitch weight (about 150 for a fixed hitch and 250 for a sliding hitch) to estimate the trailer weight placed on the tow vehicle. Then add your passengers and cargo to that.

In your post, you listed (I think):

Passengers 350
Cargo 50 (no generator, tools, firewood, grill, etc ???)

So, let's add this up:

Pin weight 2860
Hitch (stationary) 150
cargo (???) 50

Total 3060

Given the "typical F250" you'd overload a diesel and be "at the top of many gas F250 models".

Given the "typical F350 SRW" you'd be "well positioned with almost all gas models and "close on some, but likely good on most" diesel F350 models...

Keep in mind that all those "luxury options" significantly reduce the remaining payload, so a diesel F350 XL model and a diesel F350 Limited/Platinum model will have a significantly different remaining payload. So, do your truck shopping based on which trim level you want as well as which engine option and which trailer model....

It's very easy to overload any diesel F250 and sort of easy to get close or overload a SRW diesel F350.....

[chuckster57]

I see you live in Calif. I have an F350 and it doesn’t require any special license to drive it. Weight fees can be a budget killer, mine is 10,000 GVWR and my weight fees were in the $275.00 range for 1 year. I did get a notice from DMV when I bought it asking if I was going to use it “commercially” and I said no, hauling an RV for personal use isn’t making money. I do have commercial plates.

If you buy and register a fiver in Ca.

Class C- tow any fiver up to 10,000 GVWR
Over 10,000 and under 15,000 GVWR you need a travel trailer endorsement. It’s just a written test.

Over 15,000 GVWR and you need a non commercial, commercial License that includes a written and driving exam.

Hope this helps.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by noezoom

Hi All,

I'm trying to do things the right way and I think I'm good so far. I have found a fifth wheel model I want to buy, now I need to figure out how much truck it will take to haul it.

I have decided Ford is going to be our brand. Now I have to figure out which one.

The 5th wheel specs say its unloaded weight is 10338 lbs with a hitch weight of 1935 lbs. Based on my reading, a hitch weight below 20% of the dry weight is suspicious. Which one do I go with? If I assume 1500 lbs of extras, the worst case, 25%, would put the hitch weight at 2960 lbs. I don't even know if that's reasonable and it's over 1000 lbs past the spec's hitch weight.

I would assume the weight of my family, our stuff, and a sliding hitch is about (350+50+200) is 600 lbs. So I would need to find a truck with a sticker that says the hauling capacity is well over (600+2960) 3560 lbs. Does my math check out?

I don't even know what to expect from the towing capacity on the sticker in an F250 vs. F350. Would you expect an F250 to be able to handle that?

On top of that, I've heard that an F350 can require a commercial license to operate in some states. Would my proposed rig put me in that territory? That sounds like something I wouldn't want to deal with.

Thanks for your patient responses!

What brand and model of trailer are you looking at? Very difficult to size truck to an unknown trailer.

[noezoom]

Thanks for all the quick feedback!

I have been assuming diesel because I thought it would have more towing capacity. I didn't expect it to actually have less in some cases.

Based on your responses, it seems like I'll be safe with an F350 diesel, just making sure to double check the sticker and know ahead of time what my lower threshold is. Then, based on the weight of the 5th wheel, I will have to take a written exam at the DMV. I just hope I don't have to get a realID to add that endorsement.

The 5th wheel we have narrowed our search to is here.

As far as cargo weight, I only included 50 lbs as our cargo because I figured we would typically only keep what we need for travel in the truck. The rest would be in the 5th wheel. I just threw a number out off the top of my head. Maybe I should allow for more than that?

And for the weight of my family, yeah, we're not very big. Three of us including a 5yo doesn't add up to much. I'm guessing we're going to look a little odd in a huge truck, which will probably make me laugh a lot.

Thanks all!

[Vinnie]

The diesel does give you more towing (ie. "pulling") capacity, but the increased weight of the engine and components gives you less cargo (ie. "carrying") capacity.

I have a real nice diesel F350 SRW, and being ignorant, I ran over that 2800+lb cargo capacity real quick... before anyone ever sat in the cab. I'm nowhere near my max towing capacity, but that's not going to mean a damn thing when the tires fail under the weight of the kingpin.

edit: just looked at your Forest River. Added the UVW and CCC to get the GVWR of 13,935lbs. A quarter of that (your expected hitch weight) would be 3484lbs. Add a bit to that for humans and cargo not in the camper, and you'll want your cargo capacity to be 4200+lbs.

[noezoom]

I've added up the numbers and it seems like I'm on the edge or over for a lot of the F350 max cargo weight ratings. How much of a buffer should I plan to have?

I'm guessing when I get up to the rated towing capacity, gas mileage and safety margins will suffer. Not to mention getting close to liability issues in the case of an accident?

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by noezoom

I've added up the numbers and it seems like I'm on the edge or over for a lot of the F350 max cargo weight ratings. How much of a buffer should I plan to have?

I'm guessing when I get up to the rated towing capacity, gas mileage and safety margins will suffer. Not to mention getting close to liability issues in the case of an accident?

Lots of people shy away from DRW. They aren’t that hard to drive, have you given thought to a dually?

[wiredgeorge]

Notice some of our newer members have now attained a weight guru status because they paid dearly for it. You are looking at 12K camper. Your pin weight will be appx 2750 lbs. OK, now look at ANY prospective F350 (don't bother looking at an F250) and note the payload sticker in the door frame will be a bit north of 3K lbs depending on the configuration and level of gee-gaws in the truck. I could go over all the variables but the payload sticker will be what it is in any truck. My old lunker F350 has a 4K payload. That would leave 1250 lbs for the family, the dog, the hitch, etc in the truck. What you can tow can't be gauged by marketing fluff or tables. Either get a diesel or you can try and find the 7.3 gasser. I wouldn't feel keen to drag a trailer as large as you are contemplating with a 6.2 gasser. If you never drive up hills, it might not matter but if you do have some hills in your future, not sure how happy the 6.2L would be. The 7.3L is fairly hard to locate as it is a new engine configuration. I am fairly poor and even more cheap and could easily drag the 12K fiver behind my old 2006 6.0L crew cab 4wd long bed. The 6.7L is a MUCH better engine in a lot of ways. The 7.3L just hit the market and that might make me nervous.

[noezoom]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Lots of people shy away from DRW. They aren’t that hard to drive, have you given thought to a dually?

After discussing this with y'all, the seed has been planted for this possibility. I have to process it for a bit. At least I wouldn't have to worry about weight issues.

[wiredgeorge]

Please look at pictures on craigslist of used duallys and not the big rear fenders are missing or smoooooshed on many. Bwhahahaha I thought about a dually since I only buy clunkers and noticed this right away and due my lack of driving skills decided a SRW would be the more sensible purchase.

[Ken / Claudia]

A DWR is a good choice, you have GVWR for a larger RV. Nothing wrong with having extra payload rating. You did not mention if this is the first or tenth RV for you and your family. Nearly everyone who starts out RVing goes to a larger 1 when time comes for the next RV. Plan ahead get a truck now to do that job.

[noezoom]

We have experience with motorhomes in our extended family. I have driven 26' and 30' motorhomes on short trips (2 hour drives).

This is the first time my immediate family has considered purchasing our own RV and we are planning to make this our full time home.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by noezoom

We have experience with motorhomes in our extended family. I have driven 26' and 30' motorhomes on short trips (2 hour drives).

This is the first time my immediate family has considered purchasing our own RV and we are planning to make this our full time home.

You traveling or will it be in a fixed site?

[Javi]

I've driven duallys off and on for 30 plus years and have yet to crush a fender. Remember if the mirrors fit so do the fenders.