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Old 11-08-2020, 08:17 PM   #1
Camping family
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Okay hope this is my last question on the subject of level. Have auto level system last two times out in order to get level tires were off the ground on one side. My question is should you level your camper with some sort of leveling block prior to using you auto level system. If so I’m thinking of buying the Anderson leveling system.
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:22 PM   #2
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Okay hope this is my last question on the subject of level. Have auto level system last two times out in order to get level tires were off the ground on one side. My question is should you level your camper with some sort of leveling block prior to using you auto level system. If so I’m thinking of buying the Anderson leveling system.

You might want to describe the Anderson leveling system to get more contextual feedback.
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Old 11-08-2020, 08:51 PM   #3
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Okay hope this is my last question on the subject of level. Have auto level system last two times out in order to get level tires were off the ground on one side. My question is should you level your camper with some sort of leveling block prior to using you auto level system. If so I’m thinking of buying the Anderson leveling system.

First, I'm new to auto level myself but I've not encountered anything close to pulling my tires off the ground - I do not boondock. A couple of things I do is drop the front jacks about 6" before trying to level anything and I also put at least 2 lego blocks under all jacks. Right? Wrong? Who knows but we've not had an issue of any kind in all the times we've set up.
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Old 11-08-2020, 09:45 PM   #4
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We normally have no issue with out of level sites, but occasionally we have parked where there is a side slope, and the tires will be off the ground on the low side, and we have never had a negative problem with that. If the jacks will make the rig level, then don't worry about it, as they are more than strong enough to do the job. That is the whole point with having them, and no damage will happen to the rig having tires off the ground.
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Old 11-09-2020, 04:20 AM   #5
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I have had the same issue in certian campgrounds, I havent had an issue with it as the 5th is still rock solid. personaly I think your suposed to try level with blocks as close as possible but I use my blocks for the jacks so they dont going into an out of range error.

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Old 11-09-2020, 04:54 AM   #6
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Okay hope this is my last question on the subject of level. Have auto level system last two times out in order to get level tires were off the ground on one side. My question is should you level your camper with some sort of leveling block prior to using you auto level system. If so I’m thinking of buying the Anderson leveling system.
The Anderson leveling blocks work great and they are fairly inexpensive and very easy to use. So I would say if it makes you fell better I would do it. I think I would do the same thing.
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Old 11-09-2020, 05:34 AM   #7
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I would level with blocks if the wheels were off the ground. I do not have the Anderson level system, but have seen it and it is really nice. When we start traveling more, I will be getting one.
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Old 11-09-2020, 08:50 AM   #8
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First, I'm new to auto level myself but I've not encountered anything close to pulling my tires off the ground - I do not boondock. A couple of things I do is drop the front jacks about 6" before trying to level anything and I also put at least 2 lego blocks under all jacks. Right? Wrong? Who knows but we've not had an issue of any kind in all the times we've set up.
I did this same procedure for 6+ years fulltiming & maybe once/twice had a wheel off the ground.
Find a good level spot, once truck unhooked lower rv front end about 6" manually, hit auto level, fine tune it in manual mode to exactly the way you like it using levels on the floor, countertops & the fridge, then recalibrate the system (instructions can be found online if not in your packet of manuals).
This should then level at a lower position & using a couple the lego type blocks under each jack, more on the low side if needed, should level lower & with less jack extension feel very stable.
If you need to prelevel driving up on blocks prior to auto level why spend the $$ on the levelling system, just get the landing gear, stabilizers & a truck bed full of lumber.
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Old 11-09-2020, 10:32 AM   #9
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You might want to describe the Anderson leveling system to get more contextual feedback.
https://www.etrailer.com/Wheel-Chock...MaAmM8EALw_wcB

This is what I was looking at
They are drive up on chocks
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:30 PM   #10
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I use a trileveler to level side to side. Then use the auto level to finish the job.
My opinion is more points of contact makes the trailer more stable.
We dry camp and boon-dock often and use this method exclusively. Works quite well for us.
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Old 11-09-2020, 02:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Camping family View Post
https://www.etrailer.com/Wheel-Chock...MaAmM8EALw_wcB

This is what I was looking at
They are drive up on chocks

I actually have a set of those; the boomerang part and the chock part. I also have one of those yellow ramp things that are supposed to be used to changing tires and have use it and not the Andersen gizmo when on a very uneven site. Here is what I had to do at the Parkview Riverside RV Park in Concan a few months ago.
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Old 11-09-2020, 05:33 PM   #12
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I personally do not think it's a good idea to have the wheels off the ground. Trailer frames will flex and a flexing frame can put slides, doors, windows out of square. Some people will defend using the leveling system and raise the tires on a side completely off the ground and they are free to do that. I'll use boards to get the trailer mostly level side to side and put blocks under the jacks to minimize jack extension. And yes keep the wheels on the ground or boards.
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:25 PM   #13
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I use the Anderson levelers to get the side to side relatively level before using Autolevel and they work quite well. Much easier than having to decide how many legos to put under each wheel. I have found that that having the weight equalized across the axels provides much more stability. I never let tires come off the ground.

In the Ground Control 3.0 Manual there is a warning to not get the trailer wheels off the ground... " Never lift the trailer completely off the ground. Lifting the trailer so the wheels are not touching the ground will create an unstable and unsafe condition."
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:37 AM   #14
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I personally do not think it's a good idea to have the wheels off the ground. Trailer frames will flex and a flexing frame can put slides, doors, windows out of square. Some people will defend using the leveling system and raise the tires on a side completely off the ground and they are free to do that. I'll use boards to get the trailer mostly level side to side and put blocks under the jacks to minimize jack extension. And yes keep the wheels on the ground or boards.
Ya there are two ways of looking at that, I never intentionaly lift the tirs off the ground, unless I would have to change a tire. but for camping I have been noticing that on normaly sited the auto levl always unloads the springs a bit takeing some weight off the tires. and even in that spot where it was so unlevel I had one side off the ground the 5th wheel was just as rock solid as in a normal site. lippert designed them and puts them on there frames , they even show you how to lift for changing tires so I am not sure if fram flex would be an issue as it would be flexing more while you are towing down the road .

who knows.

Steve
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:49 AM   #15
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Ya there are two ways of looking at that, I never intentionaly lift the tirs off the ground, unless I would have to change a tire. but for camping I have been noticing that on normaly sited the auto levl always unloads the springs a bit takeing some weight off the tires. and even in that spot where it was so unlevel I had one side off the ground the 5th wheel was just as rock solid as in a normal site. lippert designed them and puts them on there frames , they even show you how to lift for changing tires so I am not sure if fram flex would be an issue as it would be flexing more while you are towing down the road .

who knows.

Steve
I agree Steve! Especially with the 6 point system.
I had mine sitting with no wheels or tires, did have blocks under the springs on either side with every little weight on them, for 4 days waiting on new brake plates & it was rock solid as we moved around it as normal.
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Old 11-12-2020, 10:08 AM   #16
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Ya there are two ways of looking at that, I never intentionaly lift the tirs off the ground, unless I would have to change a tire. but for camping I have been noticing that on normaly sited the auto levl always unloads the springs a bit takeing some weight off the tires. and even in that spot where it was so unlevel I had one side off the ground the 5th wheel was just as rock solid as in a normal site. lippert designed them and puts them on there frames , they even show you how to lift for changing tires so I am not sure if fram flex would be an issue as it would be flexing more while you are towing down the road .

who knows.

Steve
This goes back a few years but I had a TT, around 30' that I kept in mostly a single location as a "cabin" at the lake. I had leveled using the screw aluminum jacks, not tires and it would rack the door frame. My 2011 Keystone Raptor 300MP did the same using the front Landing gear and rear stabilizers. Front door frame racked slightly out of square. Perhaps both of those had frame issues. My 2007 Itasca Horizon motorhome on a Freightliner chassis and if I had the front raised too much it would throw the shower door out of square. I could see the motorhome chassis the entire length and it was not cracked and it certainly was a much stouter frame than any Lippert component by any means.

Just because Lippert designed the frame and leveling system is not particularly comforting to me given the suspect quality of Lippert stuff. Anyone free to raise all 4-6-8-10 tires off the ground on their trailer/RV but I won't except for tire changing. Certainly not with slides out and such.

EDIT adding. On my GF's 5th wheel, 39' Crusader, when we got it I replaced all the wheel bearings and tires with GY Endurance. Had to jack up the frame along side the tires to get them off. When the left side was up one of the spring shackles flipped and I had a bear of a time re-flipping it. Only way I could do it was put one of the heavy rubber chocks in front of that tire and pull it across it. Not something I want to do again.
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Old 11-15-2020, 08:43 AM   #17
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I use Anderson levelers all the time on my 5th wheel,no problem with wheels coming off the ground.
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Old 11-15-2020, 09:49 AM   #18
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When we picked up our Cougar in Sept, the selling dealer explained the auto level system. Part of that was explaining "out of stroke" and the possibility of the system lifting the tires off the ground on the low side. I've had the wheels off the ground in my driveway depending on where I park it. I've had an out of stroke condition and had to add a block under the rear jack pad. The one I had a real problem with was I put a block under each jack pad and hit auto level. The jacks extended to ground, the tongue jack retracted, and the auto level started to do its thing. As I watched the jacks lower to level, I got an out of stroke. I reset to hitch height and reattempted to auto level several more times each time getting out of stroke error. I finally decided to try removing the wood blocks under each jack pad and try it that way. Sure enough, it successfully leveled. I gathered from this experience that out of stroke not only applies to extension, but insufficient distance for retraction while still allowing for adequate stabilization.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:16 AM   #19
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... My question is should you level your camper with some sort of leveling block prior to using you auto level system. ...
The answer to your question is "yes". You should attempt to level the camper as much as possible prior to using your self-leveling system.

The reason is so none of your jacks will "stroke out" and cause an error. Stroking out is caused when the jack is extended beyond a certain point and won't extend any further, but it's still not enough to bring the camper to a level position. Case in point, if parked on a steep incline where the rear jacks extend only an inch, but the front ones don't lift enough to bring the trailer level yet.

At first, I experienced a lot of stroke-out's on my system because of over extending on some campsites and State Parks that was no problem with our previous shorter trailers.

What I found works best for me was to measure the distance of the jack extended on a relatively flat surface and I measured the length of each jack. I found out, this is the "ideal" extension length. So, what I do is keep a block of wood under each jack now, so the jack never extends farther than that original set distance. I even used a Sharpie and marked the shaft where that spot is.

So, if parked on a hill, I know I have to build up the distance from the ground so that jack never extends beyond my set point. I have always carried fence post sized blocks of wood for each jack on all my campers, and these work great to keep the distance of the jack extraction less than the set-marked distance. Yes, that means carrying lumber as you never know what the campsite will actually be like until you get there.

Hope this makes sense. There is a point on our Montanas where if the front is too high, (i believe) it will not level. So, after unhitching, I'll bring the nose close to level BEFORE activating the auto level system.

Another problem with error codes is if the trailer is NOT somewhat level side-to-side, the auto level will not work either. I think it's 4 degrees. If the left-right tilt of the trailer is more than 4 degrees, the auto level will not work either.

So, to answer your question ... YES ... your Montana does need to be manually set somewhat level BEFORE you activate the auto level feature.

What you use under your tires, and under those jacks to build up that gap is your choice. I prefer lumber, and carry a lot with me all the time. Heavy? Yes. But I've I never regreated having it. I also spend great length to level the picnic table too. I use the same lumber for the picnic table. Unlike so many parks in Texas, Indiana State Parks do not have concreted installed picnic tables. They are wood, free standing, and always unlevel unless you do something to level them yourself.
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Old 11-15-2020, 11:07 AM   #20
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I’ll assume it’s a hydraulic Lippert system. Had the same question years ago and contacted the manufacturer for a response. When leveling, I ran into free-wheeling tires myself. I was told it’s completely fine. The system is capable of supporting the weight.
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