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Old 03-07-2021, 06:19 AM   #101
joninthout
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Originally Posted by mikec557 View Post
They weren't cheap. They're sold in different stud sizes. I chose 5/16 because that's what most of my other connections needed. About $39.


https://www.amazon.com/Black-Power-D...ical+bu&sr=8-4
So here is my current start of my setup for Solar and Inverter. As you can see, I'm using some or most of the ideas from this thread to get my install started. I still need to purchase the SCC, some 8ga wire, 6ga wire, and another 30amp breaker. The inverter is a auto switch over at 1200 watts.

I also want to note that my camper came with a residential fridge that is already connected to an inverter somewhere in the camper. It's on a 20amp breaker in the fuse panel and the light inside the fridge is on when disconnected from Shore Power. I know it drains the battery when at my last outing the camp site at Stone Mountain in Atlanta lost power due to a transformer going out. The camp host told me the power outage was due to a couple of geese. Not sure if they lived.

Anyway, I only had the stock 65amp/hr battery at the time and had to shut down everything during the outage to keep the heat going (it was about 32 degrees the two weeks I was out there) and the fridge. That's when I decided to get two 100 amp/hr batteries and are now wired in parallel.

Have any of you actually taken the wood panel off from the basement that conceals all of the wiring behind it? Is it a pain in butt?

I would rather route power out to the battery from the basement without having to cut holes in my basement floor. Maybe if I took off the wood panel, I could figure out where the rest of the wiring goes out to the tongue.

The last picture is my plan...
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Old 03-07-2021, 09:48 AM   #102
mikec557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joninthout View Post
So here is my current start of my setup for Solar and Inverter...

Have any of you actually taken the wood panel off from the basement that conceals all of the wiring behind it? Is it a pain in butt?

I would rather route power out to the battery from the basement without having to cut holes in my basement floor. Maybe if I took off the wood panel, I could figure out where the rest of the wiring goes out to the tongue.

The last picture is my plan...
Just a couple ideas about where the stock inverter for the fridge is located. At first I was thinking that fridges are generally located near the breaker/fuse panel inside the RV and that they may have screwed it to the floor right behind the breaker/fuse panel. That's where they have put the WFCO charger/converter on a couple of my RV trailer experiences. Its a good dead air space that they might use.

But then I thought. The longer 12vdc the distance from the battery to the inverter is killer. Unlike the AC line (which does have "some" voltage drop with distance) the DC line drops quickly and requires much larger wires from battery to inverter to prevent it. So "logically" they would not put the stock inverter near the fridge. They'd put it near the batteries. Then run romex, the "longer wires" to the fridge, because romex is much cheaper than larger 12vdc cabling. Soooo, all that said, I'd look for the stock converter up front. Maybe under the front bed somewhere.

In my two Keystone Cougar trailers experiences, the front wall of the pass through is not removable. The aluminum framing that supports the bed above it is screwed onto that front wall piece, which is itself only 1/8 inch luan wood. It even tucks down below the point where my floor butts up to it. I can't say if your Bullet is built the same way, but I'd put my money on the bet that it is.

If I can load these pictures right, the first three are pics of my TT. You can see a trim piece on the floor which hides the gap of the front pass through wall going down in front of the floor. And another trim piece hiding the gap between the driver side wall of the TT and the front wall, also indicating the front wall luan extends beyound the side wall surface. The third one is a close up the the metal "conduit" that they punch though the 1in-square frame aluminum tubing. They used those to run the wire through the middle of the wall thickness. That is between the outer skin and inner skin of the front cap/wall.

The 4th and 5th pics are from a TT on the Camping World sales lot. They show factory installed 2ga wire running from the battery to the inverter. I think it could be done during the right stage of construction of the TT. You can see that there's about a 1/2 inch gap between the bottom of the front cap/wall and the steel cross member on the frame. I tried to fish a wire up through that same gap on my TT but there was just too much slope and unseeable obstructions. Yet clearly they ran the 2ga up through there and out through the plastic clam shell on the inside wall of the pass through. I couldn't tell if there was a clear path or if they used short metal conduits in the thickness of the wall like you see in one of my first three pics.

I know there is a mess of wires behind that front wall, but I just could not find a way into mine.
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Old 03-10-2021, 01:41 PM   #103
joninthout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec557 View Post
Just a couple ideas about where the stock inverter for the fridge is located. At first I was thinking that fridges are generally located near the breaker/fuse panel inside the RV and that they may have screwed it to the floor right behind the breaker/fuse panel. That's where they have put the WFCO charger/converter on a couple of my RV trailer experiences. Its a good dead air space that they might use.

But then I thought. The longer 12vdc the distance from the battery to the inverter is killer. Unlike the AC line (which does have "some" voltage drop with distance) the DC line drops quickly and requires much larger wires from battery to inverter to prevent it. So "logically" they would not put the stock inverter near the fridge. They'd put it near the batteries. Then run romex, the "longer wires" to the fridge, because romex is much cheaper than larger 12vdc cabling. Soooo, all that said, I'd look for the stock converter up front. Maybe under the front bed somewhere.

In my two Keystone Cougar trailers experiences, the front wall of the pass through is not removable. The aluminum framing that supports the bed above it is screwed onto that front wall piece, which is itself only 1/8 inch luan wood. It even tucks down below the point where my floor butts up to it. I can't say if your Bullet is built the same way, but I'd put my money on the bet that it is.
Yes, the front wall of the pass through is not removable and I wish I could see behind there to run cables for the solar glad hook up. Speaking of solar, I tested out my 136watt Zamp panel I've been using on my previous trailer and it works! I hooked it up to the front tongue port (which is definitely not a Zamp port) and had to use a little elbow grease to get the SAE plugged in. But, I got a reading and let it charge the batteries for about a half hour. No sign of battery consumption while the residential fridge was running.

I couldn't find where the fridge inverter is. I think it is next to the fridge behind a panel I can't get to easily. It's not in the bedroom nor is it up front. I did inspect the battery switch and it has 6 or 8 awg wire running into the floor from behind the water station box. I'm still thinking of tapping my auto switch over inverter to it. Just need to find a way to run a ground wire.

Anyway, we are getting ready for a trip so I'll get back to the inverter and roof-top solar thing when we get back. Onward...
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Old 03-11-2021, 01:59 AM   #104
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Quick update, the residential fridge on our 273BHS is a GE and only runs on 12volt power. No inverter needed.
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Old 04-21-2021, 05:06 PM   #105
Kevin J
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Not a project I intend to take on any time soon but here are some photos of solar prep for a 2021 bullet 250bhs in the front pass-through.

The white cable is a loop.
The black and red end in the pass through.

Questions.

1. What are the 3 colour wires in the top left? (second photo. Purple, white, pink). I will check the keystone wiring.

2. Was there any consensus on how to run a cable through to the battery from the front pass through?

Thanks all.
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Old 04-21-2021, 05:32 PM   #106
mikec557
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Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Not a project I intend to take on any time soon but here are some photos of solar prep for a 2021 bullet 250bhs in the front pass-through.

The white cable is a loop.
The black and red end in the pass through.

Questions.

1. What are the 3 colour wires in the top left? (second photo. Purple, white, pink). I will check the keystone wiring.

2. Was there any consensus on how to run a cable through to the battery from the front pass through?

Thanks all.
The purple, white and pink, I don't know. They were not visible in my 2020 26RBSWE.

My comment below refers to the 2ga wire I had to run for the inverter. The factory actually ran 8ga wire for the solar charge controller (SCC) from my pass-through, down through the front wall thickness, but failed to leave a loop of slack. So I had to abandon that wire set and design a way for the SCC to feed back to the batteries by using the 2ga. In your 2nd picture it looks like the factory didn't run any 8ga wire out to the battery. The result is about identical to my useless lack of slack. However you decide to run the larger cable (my 2ga) from your battery to inverter, you'll have to piggyback your SCC output on that route.

Cables from battery to pass-through.. I would not call it a consensus. More like a lesser-of-evils. The best avenue was running the pos and neg up through the inside of the front wall. That is, behind the front outer skin and behind the skin of the front wall of the pass-through. But that 1.5in thick wall was unpenetrable by me. I personally saw 3 rvs done that way, but it was done by the manufacturer during the trailer build. The only passage I could make into the pass through is the way I showed it in the pictures.

I would like to have penetrated the coroplast rather than the darco but there was too much blind cutting on my TT. And no way to easily peel the darco back, do the work, and replace it.
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Old 04-22-2021, 05:23 AM   #107
Kevin J
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Thank you.
Very useful info.
I'll download the keystone wiring and post later about the 3 coulored wires
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:29 AM   #108
IggyD
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Thank you for the very useful info everyone! I am very capable of doing wiring myself (I actually had to redo most of the end terminations on my new Bullet) and I wanted to add the inverter myself.

So it seems I need to run 2awg wire to the prep area. The 10awg wire is from the roof solar terminals, and the romex is the AC system tie in.

How is everyone mounting solar on the roof? Just drilling anywhere or are there framing or braces to drill into?
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:47 AM   #109
mikec557
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Originally Posted by IggyD View Post
Thank you for the very useful info everyone! I am very capable of doing wiring myself (I actually had to redo most of the end terminations on my new Bullet) and I wanted to add the inverter myself.

So it seems I need to run 2awg wire to the prep area. The 10awg wire is from the roof solar terminals, and the romex is the AC system tie in.

How is everyone mounting solar on the roof? Just drilling anywhere or are there framing or braces to drill into?
Scary as it sounds, I drill wherever the solar panel mounting feet land. My roof trusses were mostly 16in on center, but not in a good location for me. I believe my roof decking is 1/2in OSB. Some have said it's 3/8, but I think mine is thicker then that. Also, I think the screws that came with my feet were #10, but they might have been #12. Use 1in to 1-1/4in long, but your roof thickness may require a different length.

It's been awhile, but I thought Keystone ran 8awg wire down from the roof rather than the 10awg you mentioned. Regardless, I used whatever they provided. But because they screwed up my "prep" I had to provide wire from the loop location to the batteries (bus bar in my case) and for that I used 8awg.
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Old 09-05-2021, 03:31 PM   #110
IggyD
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Scary as it sounds, I drill wherever the solar panel mounting feet land. My roof trusses were mostly 16in on center, but not in a good location for me. I believe my roof decking is 1/2in OSB. Some have said it's 3/8, but I think mine is thicker then that. Also, I think the screws that came with my feet were #10, but they might have been #12. Use 1in to 1-1/4in long, but your roof thickness may require a different length.

It's been awhile, but I thought Keystone ran 8awg wire down from the roof rather than the 10awg you mentioned. Regardless, I used whatever they provided. But because they screwed up my "prep" I had to provide wire from the loop location to the batteries (bus bar in my case) and for that I used 8awg.
My roof is curved so I’m not really sure what’s under there. At first I wanted to add some Merlin solar panels that are flat and self adhesive. I have used them in other projects and they are extremely efficient. I’m new to RV’s so I noticed the roof has a vinyl skin to it and I feared if I stuck something to it, the panel will fight back the curve of the roof and eventually lead to a tear in the vinyl.

The wire could very well be 8awg, my finger calipers tell me 10, but I’m probably thinking solar so expecting the extra thick shielding that is used for the outdoor wires.
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Old 09-05-2021, 04:00 PM   #111
mikec557
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My roof is curved so I’m not really sure what’s under there...
Curved left to right, or front to back?

What make, model, and year is your RV?
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Old 09-05-2021, 04:05 PM   #112
IggyD
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Curved left to right, or front to back?

What make, model, and year is your RV?
It curves left to right. 2021 Keystone Bullet 211BHSWE
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Old 09-05-2021, 05:03 PM   #113
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It curves left to right. 2021 Keystone Bullet 211BHSWE
I think you must have a roof vent, maybe over the bed, but definitely in the bathroom. Remove the beauty ring on the inside. Be sure to mark the front or back side. The ring is square and can be rotated in any of the four sides forward. But those 4 screws holding it up were placed in a helter skelter pattern. To easily screw it back in place, know which side goes where.

When it's removed, you can see into the "attic space". You may be able to discern both what your roof decking is made of and how thick it is.

My 2018 24RBSWE had a gentle curve left to right. Ordinary flat solar panel mounting feet easily accommodated the curve. My 2020 26RBSWE has a much more curved rooftop, like yours. I decided to use the mounting feet from AMSolar. They easily accommodate the curve, and make the panel tiltable, but boy they're expensive. See my pics at about post #39.

Let us know what feet you choose.
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Old 09-05-2021, 07:24 PM   #114
IggyD
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I think you must have a roof vent, maybe over the bed, but definitely in the bathroom. Remove the beauty ring on the inside. Be sure to mark the front or back side. The ring is square and can be rotated in any of the four sides forward. But those 4 screws holding it up were placed in a helter skelter pattern. To easily screw it back in place, know which side goes where.

When it's removed, you can see into the "attic space". You may be able to discern both what your roof decking is made of and how thick it is.

My 2018 24RBSWE had a gentle curve left to right. Ordinary flat solar panel mounting feet easily accommodated the curve. My 2020 26RBSWE has a much more curved rooftop, like yours. I decided to use the mounting feet from AMSolar. They easily accommodate the curve, and make the panel tiltable, but boy they're expensive. See my pics at about post #39.

Let us know what feet you choose.
Those feet look great! I’ll look into those.

I have two vents, one in the middle next to my stove and one in the bathroom. I appreciate the tip! I wanted to run wires to a cell booster antenna and I think I can do that now if i have access to the “crawl space”.
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:21 PM   #115
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Solar System, Invewrters and Microwaves - a Big Surprise.

I haven't posted for a long time so this post does not follow the discussion but it should be helpful to some folks who want to install solar and run their AC loads off of an inverter. My previous posts describe what I have installed and it all works with the exception described below.

When I designed my solar system and determined my needed inverter size requirement, I looked at all the various electrical loads and decided I wanted to be able to run everything but the air conditioning. I also came up with operating time estimates for each load. I did this so I could determine if my solar gain would replace my amp-hour load on a daily basis. My math was "perfect" (Excel spreadsheet). However, what I did not know until my 2000 Watt inverter shut itself down, was that my microwave draws 3 to 4 times the nameplate power (1350 Watt) for a few milliseconds on startup. So, even though my inverter had a peak power of 4000 Watts, that was not enough. It shut itself down for protection.

So, for this camping year, I still use the Honda generator for the microwave. Next year, I will buy a smaller microwave and test it before the return period runs out. I am also interested in an "inverter microwave" but can't find out much about them. It is a new technology for residential microwaves, and the smaller ones I found so far do not use this newer microwave technology.

I also contemplated just setting the microwave power to a lower level, assuming that would drop the peak power below 4000 watts. It was then I discovered that my microwave power adjustment setting was defective! But, since my trailer was now well out of warranty, I could not get any satisfaction from the microwave manufacturer. I don't know if that would have worked or not. While I was becoming a microwave "expert," I learned that the reduced power setting on older technology microwaves does not reduce the power. The system simply reduces the duration that the power is applied to the food. So, during the cooking period, I expect the peak power is the same but only on for a portion of the time (seconds or milliseconds – I do not know). Thus, reducing the power setting level may not solve my peak power issue anyway.

As I understand it, the inverter technology actually reduces the power to the food versus the power cycling of older microwaves. Maybe next year, I will find a small inverter technology microwave that will operate on my inverter.

If anyone wants to discuss this further, send me a message, and I will schedule a time when we can talk.

If there are any real microwave experts out there, I would like to know if my level of understanding is correct.
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Old 09-06-2021, 12:47 PM   #116
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Solar Panel Mounting - A Different Approach

One of the posts asked about mounting. This post describes my approach. I have a large residential solar panel (280 Watt). Dimensions are about 38 in wide by around 66 inc long.

I used aluminum angle "iron" that I bought at Home Depot. I installed the aluminum angle the full length of the solar panel long side by mounting the angle to the panel with 10/32 threaded bolts about every 8 inches or so. I also drilled holes in the angle side that would be attached to the roof about every 8 inches starting about 1 inch from the ends. Then, I simply used #10 pan head metal screws to attach to the roof. My roof is wood over the metal frame. I could not find any information about where the internal metal structural members were located. So I judged that this level of overkill (lots of screws) would work. It has worked fine on a previous motorhome and on this trailer.

I used Dicor in all the right places to seal the holes.
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Old 03-12-2022, 01:57 PM   #117
Jakhamer
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I just bought 2021 premier 23 RBPR when I looked at the Solar flex 400watt Solar kit it includes 2000 watt inverter with auto transfer switch. Check your wiring I’m from Michigan too cold for me to check mine out. Maybe April weather permitting.
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Old 06-04-2022, 05:36 PM   #118
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Solar Ready Romax??

Did you figure out what the Looped Romax went to?
I installed a Controller/Inverter with 4 Lithium Batteries then 4 Solar Panels using the wiring that comes with the 2020, Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton. And it works great when I plug in my 50amp line to a 50/30amp receptacle to my inverter.

I split the Looped romax wire and put on 2-15amp plugs and connected to my converter and it runs everything, However it eats up battery power even when I don't have anything running but a plugged in fan, which makes no sense.
I attached pics. Any suggestion on this Romax wire? I cannot find a wire diagram anywhere to figure this out.
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Old 06-05-2022, 04:08 AM   #119
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Does that inverter have a transfer switch built into it???


It looks like a GoPower 12v 3000 inverter and looking at the specs, I don't see a transfer switch. That is a problem since unless you "fool with the breakers" you a back feeding the electrical panel. Is that what you want?


In other words one of those plugs goes directly to the electrical panel and one of them goes to 4-5 outlets in your trailer that are "solar ready". I assume that internally in your hard wiring both are energized by the inverter?
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Old 06-05-2022, 04:17 AM   #120
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My other comment is what gauge wire did you use from the batteries and for the jumpers on the batteries. For this inverter (assuming 3000W) they are suppose to be something like 4/0 with a 400A fuse.
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