Numbers help

[Cdentler]

I have a 2014 4x4 Silverado z-71. The GCWR is 15,000lbs and the manual says my max towing weight is 9,500lbs. Here are my stickers. What am I looking at and how do I calculate what I can pull safely? Or should I just go off the 9,500 lbs?


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[sourdough]

Ignore the 9500 lbs, it's hype. The numbers on your door will dictate what you can pull.

The number that will give you the biggest problem with a 1/2 ton is the 1648 lbs. on the first sticker that limits "the combined weight of cargo and passengers". It includes all the things I mentioned in my previous post on your other thread.

I just pulled up a 27' trailer (Passport) to see what you're looking at. The gvw of the trailer is 7800 lbs. 15% of that for tongue weight would be 1170 lbs. That would leave 478 lbs. (cargo capacity 1648 - 1170 tongue weight = 478 lbs.). From that you need to deduct the weight of the hitch, say 100 lbs. You now have 378 lbs. On this particular trailer you would have approx. 378 lbs. for the weights of you, your spouse, your child, puppy (if you have one), tools, toys, and all other misc. that you would put in your truck. Preferably you would have that much at least left for a safety margin.

Here's a link to the passports. If you're not familiar with the keystone website go there and look around to see what might fit. IMO a 27' trailer is more than you want for a 1/2 ton....a 30' will be even worse.

http://www.keystonerv.com/passport/

Others will chime in and I wish you the best in your search.

[sourdough]

Oh, and I forgot. You also need to ignore the sticker portion that tells you to run your tires at 35 psi. You can't pull a trailer with passenger car tires with 35 psi. To tow they need to run at the max psi on the sidewall (44?). Instead, I would strongly suggest getting LT tires if you get a trailer that's 25' or longer. Been there, done that.

[Cdentler]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Ignore the 9500 lbs, it's hype. The numbers on your door will dictate what you can pull.

The number that will give you the biggest problem with a 1/2 ton is the 1648 lbs. on the first sticker that limits "the combined weight of cargo and passengers". It includes all the things I mentioned in my previous post on your other thread.

I just pulled up a 27' trailer (Passport) to see what you're looking at. The gvw of the trailer is 7800 lbs. 15% of that for tongue weight would be 1170 lbs. That would leave 478 lbs. (cargo capacity 1648 - 1170 tongue weight = 478 lbs.). From that you need to deduct the weight of the hitch, say 100 lbs. You now have 378 lbs. On this particular trailer you would have approx. 378 lbs. for the weights of you, your spouse, your child, puppy (if you have one), tools, toys, and all other misc. that you would put in your truck. Preferably you would have that much at least left for a safety margin.

Here's a link to the passports. If you're not familiar with the keystone website go there and look around to see what might fit. IMO a 27' trailer is more than you want for a 1/2 ton....a 30' will be even worse.

http://www.keystonerv.com/passport/

Others will chime in and I wish you the best in your search.

Thanks for the input sourdough. That really puts things into perspective. Exactly what I needed to know to figure out what I can pull.

[66joej]

Much good info above from sourdough. The ultimate decision is yours but the payload is your nemesis as it is mine. Wanted to get a bigger trailer but the puny payload of my Ram changed that. Good luck with your TT purchase.

[Tbos]

Sourdough is right on the money. Your truck is very similar in numbers to the Silverado 1500 I used to have, before I bought my F350. When I took my truck and trailer fully loaded for a trip to the scales I was well under CGWR and but my trucks rear axle was within 200 lbs of maximum. My TT had a dry weight of 5100 lbs & fully loaded the axles had 5500 lbs on them. The tongue came out about 1100 Lbs. The truck loaded with passengers and everything else with TT connected using a WDH came in at 7060 lbs, just shy of the 7200 lbs GVWR. I had also upgraded my tires to LT tires. Good luck in your hunt. If you use the TT specs as suggested you should be able to find a rig that will work for you and your family.


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[Cdentler]

So when I see 645 for the hitch weight, it is going to be for the dry weight of the TT

[66joej]

You are correct. The weight goes up with things like batteries, propane,etc.

[notanlines]

You just wait. Sourdough's chest will be all pumped up for mother's day, he'll be bragging about all the good things we said about his opinion. Yep, he's correct. The big three simply shouldn't be towing a 30 foot trailer with a half ton. We generally don't discuss the "other two" so we won't now either. I liked the use of the word "hype." A wonderful thing to RV and truck manufacturers. I'm quite certain I can pull a 53 foot cargo trailer with a Mazda mini-truck........I just need to figure out where to bolt the hitch.

[Cdentler]

In all honesty how much (lbs) stuff do y'all keep in the trailer as a husband and wife?
Me, wife, dog and baby and baby's stuff we come out to around 500lbs with a little wiggle room. That leaves me 1148 lbs but safely 848 lbs for tongue weight. That's a tall order using the gvwr of the TT for the size we would be comfortable in. I'm trying to figure out where I can move that weight around and also use a WD hitch to help. Even towing a bullet 24' seems next to impossible using the GVWR


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[Cdentler]

I also noticed that keystone gets there tongue weight using 12%


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[busterbrown]

Payload is the biggest limiting factor with 1/2 ton vehicles. But I'm one of a few on here who is a proponent of 1/2 tons with ultra lites, as long as you stay within the TV's capacities.

Years ago, 1500's and F150's were hindered with sloppy, inefficient, and underpowered powertrains. Go back 20 years and compare an F150 then with one built today. Completely different truck. Horsepower and torque nearly doubled. Brakes, suspensions, and engineering dramatically improved.

If you're looking at an "ultra lite" trailer in the 27-30 ft range (let's say a popular bunkhouse model, Bullet 272BHS), the dry hitch weight will be in the 500 lb range. This one is 540 lbs. Shipping weight on the coach is 5030 lbs. Let's say you add 1000 lbs worth of batteries, propane, camping equipment and personal belongings. The coach now weighs a little over 6000 lbs for your trips. With 13% of that weight on the tongue, 785 lbs would be removed from your 1648 lbs of TV's payload capacity. Minus 100 lbs (for your WDH) from the remaining 860 lbs of payload, you now have 760 lbs for you, your wife, your child, and cargo in your truck. By no means are you on the edge of your trucks capabilities. On the other hand, if you plan on having 4 of your closest buddies (averaging 225 lb each) ride with you to set up deer camp for the week, you would likely max out payload.

Also, today's RV manufacturers have designed these ultra lites with weight reducing components including aluminium framing and thin roof decks. Remember, 20 years ago, RV's were heavier per each linear foot of interior space. Additionally, wide track spacing of the axles has provided a much more stable towing experience.

If you stay within your truck's towing specifications, provide a stiffer sidewall tire on the TV, and tow with a quality weight distribution hitch (with effective sway control), I think your truck has the capability of moving a 6000 lb, 30 foot pull-behind safely (and comfortably) to your camping destinations.

Good luck.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

Payload is the biggest limiting factor with 1/2 ton vehicles. But I'm one of a few on here who is a proponent of 1/2 tons with ultra lites, as long as you stay within the TV's capacities.

Years ago, 1500's and F150's were hindered with sloppy, inefficient, and underpowered powertrains. Go back 20 years and compare an F150 then with one built today. Completely different truck. Horsepower and torque nearly doubled. Brakes, suspensions, and engineering dramatically improved.

If you're looking at an "ultra lite" trailer in the 27-30 ft range (let's say a popular bunkhouse model, Bullet 272BHS), the dry hitch weight will be in the 500 lb range. This one is 540 lbs. Shipping weight on the coach is 5030 lbs. Let's say you add 1000 lbs worth of batteries, propane, camping equipment and personal belongings. The coach now weighs a little over 6000 lbs for your trips. With 13% of that weight on the tongue, 785 lbs would be removed from your 1648 lbs of TV's payload capacity. Minus 100 lbs (for your WDH) from the remaining 860 lbs of payload, you now have 760 lbs for you, your wife, your child, and cargo in your truck. By no means are you on the edge of your trucks capabilities. On the other hand, if you plan on having 4 of your closest buddies (averaging 225 lb each) ride with you to set up deer camp for the week, you would likely max out payload.

Also, today's RV manufacturers have designed these ultra lites with weight reducing components including aluminium framing and thin roof decks. Remember, 20 years ago, RV's were heavier per each linear foot of interior space. Additionally, wide track spacing of the axles has provided a much more stable towing experience.

If you stay within your truck's towing specifications, provide a stiffer sidewall tire on the TV, and tow with a quality weight distribution hitch (with effective sway control), I think your truck has the capability of moving a 6000 lb, 30 foot pull-behind safely (and comfortably) to your camping destinations.

Good luck.

Please note; busterbrown qualified his statements with the observation that you could pull a 6000 LB , 30' trailer - not 8000. Please look at all the specs for 30' trailers. If I recall, busterbrown tried pulling his trailer with a Denali, and has now upgraded for obvious reasons (I'm hoping my memory is serving me correctly). Do a search.

What trailer manufacturer's are making the trailers out of, frames, etc. etc. are meaningless. The numbers on your door tell you what you can tow...clean, simple. Just keep those number in mind, disregard anything telling you that you can tow the space shuttle "because" and you will be OK.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Oh, and I forgot. You also need to ignore the sticker portion that tells you to run your tires at 35 psi. You can't pull a trailer with passenger car tires with 35 psi. To tow they need to run at the max psi on the sidewall (44?). Instead, I would strongly suggest getting LT tires if you get a trailer that's 25' or longer. Been there, done that.

The P265/65R18 Standard Load tires have a maximum load capacity of 2244# at 35 PSI when used on a pick-up truck. Their maximum pressure rating is 41 PSI but that does not increase their load capacity above what is provided at 35 PSI.

I don't think i'd use the higher psi rating unless the truck's owner's manual suggested it.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Cdentler

I have a 2014 4x4 Silverado z-71. The GCWR is 15,000lbs and the manual says my max towing weight is 9,500lbs. Here are my stickers. What am I looking at and how do I calculate what I can pull safely? Or should I just go off the 9,500 lbs?

Just a little "simple math" will reveal that the "advertised capabilities" are a hoax.....

Use the GCWR of the truck (15000 pounds) and subtract the GVW of the truck (7200 pounds) and you'll see that the "real maximum trailer weight is 7800 pounds, not the 9500 pounds that's in the advertiser's goals..... I say "goals" because it's what they want to advertise to be "better than the competition".... The way they get those numbers (and every manufacturer does it) is to use an "EMPTY BASE LEVEL TRUCK" and calculate the maximum trailer size based on that truck. None of us buy a "BASE LEVEL TRUCK" and none of us tow with a bumper hitch (add 150 pounds for a good quality WD hitch) and none of us tow with an EMPTY truck (add the wife, kids, dog, tool box, firewood, generator, gas can, spare tire, GPS, maps, cooler, etc and you'll quickly see that what's advertised is nothing more than HYPE to beat the competition and doesn't equate to towing "in the real world"....

I've long urged new buyers to use two calculations for their proposed rig. First, the "lightest situation" which is with 10% tongue weight and the second is "worst case situation" with 15% tongue weight. None of us can tell you how your truck/trailer combination will tow. Each rig is different (wheelbase, length to trailer axles, height of truck, length of hitch ball behind the truck axle, weight in truck bed, percentage of weight on each truck axle, and the list goes on and on). So, I'd urge you to calculate using the "worst case situation" of 15% tongue weight so you can, for the most part, know that even if you have a "not towing friendly" rig, you'll still have adequate capacity to meet your towing limitations and be safe.

So, with your truck's GVW (7200) and payload (1648) if you and your family weigh, as you state, 500 pounds, that leave 1148. Subtract 150 for the hitch, leaves 998 for the trailer. If you happen to buy a rig that won't tow "stable" with less than 15% tongue weight, that'll put you at a maximum trailer of about 6650 pounds. Remember, that's the maximum loaded trailer (you'll have cargo that gets heavier as the kids grow older and bigger) not the advertised empty trailer weight.

By comparison, using the "best situation" of 10% tongue weight, you'll be limited by your GCWR of 15000 pounds (with a truck at 7200 pounds) of 7800 pounds, so forget those brochures and use "real world numbers" and you'll quickly see that a trailer with a GVW of 6500 pounds is about all you can "know for sure" that you can manage with your truck.

[busterbrown]

To the OP:

Rule number 1; stay WITHIN the numbers of your truck's towing specifications (ie Payload, GVWR, Axle weights, GCWR, etc)

Rule number 2: Mitigate an unsafe, uncomfortable ride with firmer LT tires, a quality sway elimination hitch, and proper cargo loading in the trailer.

Rule number 3 (most important): Have fun on your camping vacations so the memories will last a life time.

The 70's and 80's mentality that still resides among some that you need a HD truck to pull a anything larger than a popup can is just that, weathered, "change your oil every 3000 miles", inconsistent propaganda. If you stay within the specs of your vehicle, keep a reserve, and drive like an old man, your 27 to 30 foot ultra lite trailer will be enjoyable to pull.

Again, to the OP: I have a Yukon XL Denali that pulls my 35 foot Bullet better than most 1/2 tons as I invested in a quality Hensley hitch, something required at that length of trailer. It tows extremely nice, never a white knuckle moment (after the hensley), and drives very comfortably. Because the Dw and I are planning longer trips for the next few years and our current 9 year old Denali has over 100K miles on the clock, we wanted to buy a new 1/2 ton SUV and/or crew cab pick up with all the bells and whistles. Don't assume (as some do) why folks upgrade unless you ask them.

But to mortgage a $70-80K truck is not part of my financial logic. I happened to come across a RAM 2500 Laramie demo with 1,000 miles on the odometer. With heavily discounted incentives and price reductions, the dealer got me into this truck at a substantially lower pricepoint than any 1/2 ton I could find. I got lucky is all.

As far as the upgrade, I would keep my Denali if our trips stayed local and we put less mileage on the TV. In fact, after taking the trailer out with the new RAM, my wife and I both think the Denali is much more pleasant to tow with. We will get used to the firmer suspension over time. But the wife already thinks it's too large for her DD. My perspective: no truck is too large for a DD.

You can invest in ANY truck you want to, be it a 1/2 ton gasser or a 1 ton dually diesel. The ride becomes substantially firmer and less refined obviously as the size truck goes up. Your wife and little one may find it a little bothersome too. But the scenario you painted already could have you safely paired up with a number of light weights in the 27-30 foot range.

And CWTheMAN is giving very sound advice. You CAN'T increase load carrying capacity on SL tires. Increasing to max PSI will only have a negligible effect on towing. But that will not help increase your load capacity. Upgrading to firmer side wall LT tires is really the only way. You may already have LT tires on your truck if you have the off-road Z-71 package.

[Kemp716]

I want to say that I agree with most everything said above. There is a lot of experience and knowledge here. Todays ½ ton trucks and light weight trailers are much better than they used to be, and when mated properly with the correct WD hitches can be towed safely. I went down that road myself recently and in the end, went the other direction. I was on the edge of my truck’s capacity and I could feel it. It was not a good feeling and was on my mind the entire trip. When I got home, I decided that I wanted to enjoy traveling and not have to do that much math on every trip. I upgrade to a ¾ ton truck with a capacity well above my needs. Towing is now much more enjoyable for me.

[Cdentler]

I just took my truck to the scales with wife, baby w/ her stuff and pup.

Steer axle 3700
Drive axle 2560

Gross weight 6260


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[canesfan]

Good idea. If my really quick and rough math is any good that leaves you with a TT weight of "roughly" around 5500 lbs taking into consideration a hitch 100-150 lbs and 15% tongue weight.

Edit - you also only have 250 lbs left to transfer to your front axle.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

The P265/65R18 Standard Load tires have a maximum load capacity of 2244# at 35 PSI when used on a pick-up truck. Their maximum pressure rating is 41 PSI but that does not increase their load capacity above what is provided at 35 PSI.

I don't think i'd use the higher psi rating unless the truck's owner's manual suggested it.

My suggestion to run at the max sidewall pressure wasn't to increase load carrying capacity. In my experience, passenger tires inflated to 35 psi with 1000 lbs sitting on the hitch squash, roll and move around a lot causing instability. The only way to get maximum stiffness (IMO) out of a soft tire is to run it inflated to the max.....or as I suggested, buy a stiffer LT tire.