Trailer Brakes - Page 3

CWSWine · 04-17-2016, 05:48 AM

On my F350 I had a Gain Settings from 1-10 and in my Driver Information Control (DIC) I also had a low, medium and high settings for trailer brakes. The default setting of low is made for light trailers. I set the setting to high ( mine weights 14,000lbs) and there was a huge difference in braking and I could lock up the trailer brakes where on light would just barely slow the the 5er.

dcg9381 · 04-17-2016, 06:05 AM

Same thing on the dodge. You've got heavy/light and gain. We're set to heavy and pinching the e-brake with an indicated 100% to the brake controller, you can feel the trailer slow, but it's only moderate...

Just had it safety inspected at the dealer, if that's worth any confirmation.

gearhead · 04-17-2016, 12:27 PM

My take on it.....I switched from Ford to Ram. Set the brake controller for heavy electric. The brakes would hold good when doing a tug test after hooking up. I had no issues on the first tow of 500 miles. Somewhere in all this I got paranoid about the brakes. When I repacked the bearings last year I had that grease zerk staring at me and gave it a few squirts. So I thought I would test the brakes at 30mph, and they didn't do much. So yeah, I pulled all 4 wheels and pulled the bearing nuts off and visually looked at the brake shoes. All were clean and the seal stayed in the hub. So I didn't blow the seals. Still a bit concerned about the brakes barely working at low speed. So I tried it at 50mph with the dashboard brake slide button with no truck braking. They worked great. All I can figure is the brake controller eases off at low speed to keep from jerking the rig at low speed in town driving.
My thoughts....

CWSWine · 04-17-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearhead

All I can figure is the brake controller eases off at low speed to keep from jerking the rig at low speed in town driving.
My thoughts....

I was told on a Ford F350 you have to be going faster than 20mph for the wheels to lock and I have tested this. Less than that it will just slow you down.

NotyetMHCowner · 04-28-2016, 03:35 AM

So, I hand packed all the bearings a couple of months ago. 2 of them had grease in them. I cleaned everything, adjusted the brakes a little tighter than I like, and they still do not work like I think they should. I think it is a voltage problem with mine, I guess. I was only seeing 9-10 volts at the magnets when I tested them last year. Im sick of it though. The brakes should work better than this. Im ready for disc!

Nagrompj · 04-28-2016, 05:36 PM

If your saying only 2 of your bearings had grease in them you have bigger problems than poor brakes. If your saying 2 of the brakes had grease on the shoes I would suggest replacing the brakes. Only chlorinated brake cleaner will completly clean brake shoes.

Reading your earlier post, you stated there was a voltage difference from the magnets to the junction box. Sounds like the wiring is to small for the amperage load of the brakes. Try heavier wire from the junction box to all 4 wheels. The factory will use the lightest wire they think they can get away with.

I have found that every trailer brake drum I ever checked is out of round, even on new axels. I swear it must be a law that every axle assembly must be dropped before it is put on a trailer. The magnet face of the drum also may not run true to the axle.
Around here I can get the drums turned true to the axel center for about $20 each.

On my current trailer I found all 4 brake plates were not installed correctly. From the factory the mounting studs were knocked out and bolts were used to install the plate. The bolts were to small and allowed the plate to be installed a 1/4" off center. The plate overlapped the centering bosses. The brakes drug just a little all the time so I always had brake fade.

If your brake are the proper size for the trailer, your brake controller is working properly, the brake are in good condition ( clean and grease free ), the wires are the proper size and the brake drum are true your brakes will work.

Remember new brake shoes are not the exact same radius as the drum and need to be broke in before they will work 100%.

I think your on the right path with the voltage drop but look at everything. You'll find it.

NotyetMHCowner · 04-29-2016, 02:54 AM

I cleaned the brakes with a lot of brake cleaner. I am satisfied they are clean.

I assumed the wiring was inadequate, but when I pull the brake-away switch, the brakes hold really well.

The confusing part for me, is my Ford Integrated Brake Controller. Apparently, this thing is smarter than a scientist! I am used to regular aftermarket brake controllers. When you slide the emergency lever over, it applies full braking power in relation to how high you have it set. My controller does not do this. It compensates a lot of variables into the equation for you. I think if I have it set to 10 (max) and slide it over, no matter the speed, I should almost be locking up the trailer brakes. It is not where near that much stopping force. If I am traveling 40-50mph, and slide the lever all the way over (set on 10), it would take at least 1/8 a mile to stop.

Now all that being said, I have only had to have maybe 2 hard stops while towing. Neither one was a "slam on the brakes" situation, but pressed them pretty hard, and it stopped really good. I think what I need to do, is next time I'm towing, be sure everything is secure in the camper and find an area where I can stand on the brakes and see how it does. It may be working like it is supposed to. I just think that the emergency lever should override any other parameters and give full braking power.

Nagrompj · 04-29-2016, 05:20 AM

I have the same controller as you (2008 F250) and I'll agree with your discription of the operation. That said, I had a deer run out 10 yards in front of me at 40 mph. I had no time to stop before hitting the deer but the trailer did lock up all 4 wheels. I was amazed how fast the truck and trailer stopped. Maybe Ford only wants the controller to stop the trailer with the emergency lever?? Who knows but it worked for me.

dcg9381 · 04-30-2016, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I was told on a Ford F350 you have to be going faster than 20mph for the wheels to lock and I have tested this. Less than that it will just slow you down.

Interesting, I never considered this. I always assumed that max braking at low speed was the same as max braking at high speed...

**JRTJH** · 04-30-2016, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

Interesting, I never considered this. I always assumed that max braking at low speed was the same as max braking at high speed...

Here's "Ford's take on how it works" (Right out of the owner's manual, BTW)

"• The trailer brake controller is equipped with a feature that reduces
output at vehicle speeds below 11 mph (18 km/h) so trailer and
vehicle braking is not jerky or harsh. This feature is only available
when applying the brakes using your vehicle’s brake pedal, not the
controller."

dcg9381 · 05-01-2016, 06:16 AM

Ahh.. thanks. So when I actuate the controller, manually, and the truck indicates 100% trailer braking, it IS all the braking I'm going to get.

I assume you guys with 5th wheels - that factory brakes don't come close to locking up even at high gain?

NotyetMHCowner · 05-01-2016, 09:07 AM

I had heard that it was around 25mph. It doesn't matter because I have pulled the lever even at highway speeds. It always feels the same.

What questions the controller, and not the wiring, in my situation is that the brake-away switch holds the brakes very well. Same voltage, same wiring (in the camper).

buckeyebobhockingcamper · 05-01-2016, 11:31 AM

how do i determine if i have self adjusting brakes?2015 montana high country 310re

**chuckster57** · 05-01-2016, 01:09 PM

Pull a wheel and drum. If they are self adjusting there will be an adjusting cable. Non self won't have it:

http://www.lci1.com/self-adjusting-brakes#about

JeffroM · 07-21-2016, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyebobhockingcamper

how do i determine if i have self adjusting brakes?2015 montana high country 310re

I actually just went through trying to figure this out myself. You should be able to pull the rubber plug out of the brake backing plate and look at the star adjuster. If the spring is on the adjuster, you have self adjusting. If the spring is bowed underneath the adjuster, they are manual adjustment. If you look at chuckster57's link, the first picture is of a manual adjustment brake. The second is a self adjusting type.

Now for my own question which may have been beaten to death. My brakes don't lock up on gravel. I have a '15 F-350 with the integrated controller. It is putting out 13.4V at the connection in the truck. In the pinbox it drops to 13.1V. At the brake connection with all brakes detached I get 13.1V. With 1 axle (2 brakes) it drops to 11.1V. With all 4 brakes attached I get 9.8V. Does this sound like normal voltage drop from the magnets or do I have another issue going on?

NotyetMHCowner · 07-22-2016, 05:51 AM

I have the same issue. I don't understand why the voltage drop is that much. I think the brakes should lock up, easily, on gravel even set less than maximum. Mine does seem to stop just fine when I brake pretty hard. I just wish the brakes would stop better under normal braking. I feel like I'm using the trucks brakes much more than the campers brakes.

I am curious what you find out about the voltages

Desert185 · 07-22-2016, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagrompj

If your saying only 2 of your bearings had grease in them you have bigger problems than poor brakes. If your saying 2 of the brakes had grease on the shoes I would suggest replacing the brakes. Only chlorinated brake cleaner will completly clean brake shoes.

Reading your earlier post, you stated there was a voltage difference from the magnets to the junction box. Sounds like the wiring is to small for the amperage load of the brakes. Try heavier wire from the junction box to all 4 wheels. The factory will use the lightest wire they think they can get away with.

I have found that every trailer brake drum I ever checked is out of round, even on new axels. I swear it must be a law that every axle assembly must be dropped before it is put on a trailer. The magnet face of the drum also may not run true to the axle.
Around here I can get the drums turned true to the axel center for about $20 each.

On my current trailer I found all 4 brake plates were not installed correctly. From the factory the mounting studs were knocked out and bolts were used to install the plate. The bolts were to small and allowed the plate to be installed a 1/4" off center. The plate overlapped the centering bosses. The brakes drug just a little all the time so I always had brake fade.

If your brake are the proper size for the trailer, your brake controller is working properly, the brake are in good condition ( clean and grease free ), the wires are the proper size and the brake drum are true your brakes will work.

Remember new brake shoes are not the exact same radius as the drum and need to be broke in before they will work 100%.

I think your on the right path with the voltage drop but look at everything. You'll find it.

When I was a kid doing brake jobs at the local gas station (when drum brakes were the norm), we always turned the drums and arc'd the shoes. I'd like to at least have the shoes arc'd to the drums whenever I have to replace them. Does anyone provide this anymore?

CWSWine · 07-22-2016, 07:30 AM

What do you have your trailer brakes set for in you DIC? I think there is a light - medium and heavy settings or something like that. My defaulted to the lowest setting and after increasing to the highest setting I could lock up the tires on gravel at 7.5.

jsmith948 · 07-22-2016, 02:33 PM

As a rule, I take it easy on the brakes. I tend to let off the throttle early and apply light pressure when braking for a normal stop. I was also concerned that the trailer brakes didn't seem to be putting much drag on the trailer. I kept playing with the settings and ended up with the brake controller set on 10 - seemed to be working okay. We were traveling through Sonora one afternoon when a driver felt the need to pass and then cut back in front of us just as the light changed. I had to apply the brakes with a great deal more authority than normal and was rewarded with blue smoke from the trailer wheels. As it turns out, the integrated brake controller on our Ford senses the amount of pressure applied to the brakes and applies the trailer brakes accordingly. We now run with the controller set at 7 to 7.5. No more lock-ups. Don't know if this is what is happening to the OP or not - just food for thought

Tom N OH · 07-23-2016, 04:59 AM

To the OP, have you performed the brake burnishing procedure as described in the Dexter Axle manual? We have the same 5er & I was also concerned about the lack of braking until we were on a longer trip about a month ago. I decided to try the burnishing procedure & it made a HUGE difference! I can now drag the tires on gravel quite easily & on pavement with a hard application. Still keep my 2012 F250's factory brake controller set on 10, though. Here's the PDF of the Dexter manual. Burnishing procedure is described at the bottom of page 16.

http://www.dexteraxle.com/i/u/614960...ric_Brakes.pdf

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