Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Repairs & Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-08-2021, 12:16 PM   #1
markcee
Senior Member
 
markcee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
Info Gathering: Suspension Upgrades

We've had our trailer about 1.5 years and are in the midst of our second cross country trip. We will do the cross country thing once a year along with 1500-2000 miles yearly of additional hauling. As we do not anticipate trading in anytime soon, I am trying to gather some info on how best to beef up/better the suspension. I'm considering the following and am interested in hearing your feedback, including if I'm wasting my money:

1. Moryde equalizers and shackles with wet bolt kit
2. Upgraded leaf springs
3. Heavier axles - currently have LCI 4400 lb

As far as axles - I am not looking to increase so that I can load to the max, just figuring 'bigger is better' as far as taking road bumps/potholes etc. Also, I believe I've seen somewhere that the LCI 4400 lb axles are actually 5.2K's that are de-rated. Is this true? If so, worth going to 6K?

Anything else that could improve things?
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
markcee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 01:51 PM   #2
CedarCreekWoody
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Trinidad,TX
Posts: 968
My camper has 4400 lb axles and my impression is they are almost identical to 3500 lb axles and are up-rated (same 10 inch brakes, etc.) I wish mine were 5200. I've had to have one replaced due to a bent spindle. Disc brakes and sealed bearings (if even available) would be nice upgrades.
__________________
Woody
Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Laredo 290 SRL
2019 Ram 2500, 4x4, Cummins diesel
Andersen hitch
CedarCreekWoody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 03:13 PM   #3
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Funny you should ask this question at this time.

On the 17th I am having my entire running gear from the frame down replaced; new axles, springs, HD shackles, wet bolts, MorRyde SRE 4000 suspension and disc brakes. Like you, although my trailer is just out of warranty and doesn't have that many miles on it I did not like traveling on long trips with what I consider marginal running gear. 6k axles on a 14,2xx gvw trailer doesn't work for me, neither do the 3k spring packs, lack of wet bolts, 1/4" shackles vs 1/2" or the Road Armor suspension (I have sure missed my MorRyde from the last trailer).....and the disc brakes - can't wait.

The above is a bit pricey but after some talks with DW she doesn't think she wants another RV so I'm doing some mods to get us on down the road (without constant worry) vs get a different one in 4-5 years.

I knew what I was getting when I bought it and thought I would be OK with it. Well, like when I towed 200 over payload I could not stop worrying about every dip, bump or pothole hoping something didn't bend or break.

The folks come to the house to do it, are Dexter certified and all components carry full factory warranties after installation. They will install all of the components I'm getting or any combination. Was really very simple and hopefully works out great. Talked to the installer this morning and she sounded very knowledgeable and proficient (she has a partner). Said they have installed hundreds of these systems and they would be in and out quickly.

Edit: I failed to include a link to the folks doing the work; Performance Trailer Braking. I cannot give a review of the final installation (very comprehensive) but I can say that thus far it has been extremely professional.

https://performancetrailerbraking.com/
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 04:54 PM   #4
CedarCreekWoody
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Trinidad,TX
Posts: 968
Danny I like your plan. I also have concern on towing with minimal running gear and if you like the camper it makes sense to upgrade the gear rather than replace with a newer camper (that most likely will also have minimal gear.)
__________________
Woody
Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Laredo 290 SRL
2019 Ram 2500, 4x4, Cummins diesel
Andersen hitch
CedarCreekWoody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 05:01 PM   #5
fjr vfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 472
I've upgraded to heavy duty shackles and wet bolts. Also replaced the old Equa-Flex Equalizers. And upgraded tires to the next higher load range.

I've been interested in the Sumo trailer springs. It seems they might work better than replacing the leaf springs? I wonder who has experience with them?
It seems to me they would have more cushioning effect over adding more leaf's which would also make the suspension stiffer?
Has anyone added Sumo springs to their trailer and what do you think?
fjr vfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 05:11 PM   #6
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
I think the Sumos for trailers are the same as for trucks aren't they - basically an overload type deal? I thought about them for the truck but just haven't focused on it long enough.

As far as them vs heavier springs IMO it would depend on what you have now vs weight. In my case, and probably in most, I don't want springs rated at well below gvw because at some point they will be supporting that weight. To me a Sumo spring would just be a stop gap type of thing for those hard hits from time to time but would do nothing for day to day support.

You said you replaced the Equa Flex - with what? I've had nothing but stellar results from the MorRyde setup.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2021, 06:35 PM   #7
fjr vfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 472
I replaced the Equa-Flex with new ones. The old were worn out. Sorry for the confusion.
I have Sumo springs on my truck and have been happy with them. They are basically over load springs, but they are progressive and make contact from the start verses typical over load springs where the tail needs to sag some before contact.
My truck rides a little harsher when empty, but very smooth when my 5th wheel is on. They also smoothed out any purposing effect...not completely of course.
I think you're right they should smooth out those hard hits with the trailer. I think they would act like overload springs. How effective they would be and how well they would work I don't know? I do like them on my truck. I was hoping someone would have some practical experience with them on a trailer and could ad some input?
fjr vfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 08:02 AM   #8
markcee
Senior Member
 
markcee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Funny you should ask this question at this time.

On the 17th I am having my entire running gear from the frame down replaced; new axles, springs, HD shackles, wet bolts, MorRyde SRE 4000 suspension and disc brakes. Like you, although my trailer is just out of warranty and doesn't have that many miles on it I did not like traveling on long trips with what I consider marginal running gear. 6k axles on a 14,2xx gvw trailer doesn't work for me, neither do the 3k spring packs, lack of wet bolts, 1/4" shackles vs 1/2" or the Road Armor suspension (I have sure missed my MorRyde from the last trailer).....and the disc brakes - can't wait.

The above is a bit pricey but after some talks with DW she doesn't think she wants another RV so I'm doing some mods to get us on down the road (without constant worry) vs get a different one in 4-5 years.

I knew what I was getting when I bought it and thought I would be OK with it. Well, like when I towed 200 over payload I could not stop worrying about every dip, bump or pothole hoping something didn't bend or break.

The folks come to the house to do it, are Dexter certified and all components carry full factory warranties after installation. They will install all of the components I'm getting or any combination. Was really very simple and hopefully works out great. Talked to the installer this morning and she sounded very knowledgeable and proficient (she has a partner). Said they have installed hundreds of these systems and they would be in and out quickly.

Edit: I failed to include a link to the folks doing the work; Performance Trailer Braking. I cannot give a review of the final installation (very comprehensive) but I can say that thus far it has been extremely professional.

https://performancetrailerbraking.com/

Seems like an excellent company. Interested to hear your comments after the install!
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
markcee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 08:32 AM   #9
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcee View Post
Seems like an excellent company. Interested to hear your comments after the install!
They are a great company & their installers did a fantastic job upgrading my drum brakes to disc with 17.5" H rated tires & wheels, best upgrade $$ I've ever spent.
If you have a heavy 5th wheel & about $7k+/- you can get the MorRyde IS with disc brakes, then you'll have the end all worries suspension & the best braking possible.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 04:47 PM   #10
koda57
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Wallace
Posts: 41
My LCI 4400 lbs. axles have 12" drums x 2". I have also read in the past that they are really 5200 lbs. axles. But they are labeled 4400 lbs. for a reason. I know all my wheel bearing numbers and seal numbers matched Dexter 5200 lb. axles even the hub part number. In my case the wheel bearings spindle dimensions and the ID of the seal matched up to a 5200 lb. axle. The part numbers on your bearing, seals and brakes will help determine your axle load capacity. My brake shoe part number crossed to a rated 7000 lbs. You cant assume it is de rated axle. But either way you need to be aware that to heavy of springs will rattle your trailer to death just like going to a higher load range tire. You have to go by the placards on trailer and axles. I don't know if the springs are different between the 4400 and 5200 lb. axles, my guess is they are.
__________________
2019 Ford F250 Lariate, 6.7 Diesel
2020 Cougar 22RBSWE
koda57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2021, 06:02 PM   #11
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
I have no care about what the axles are "rated" or derated for. The tag is on the axle, the brakes are what they are (drum/size), springs etc. (rated for the axle weight rating). IMO if the axles/springs aren't rated to carry at least the gvw of the trailer (don't care about the "pin/tongue weight" reduction - just like tires were) then they are undersized. Each person has to determine what it is that makes them comfortable or what they can live with....I know my thresholds.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2021, 04:23 AM   #12
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Trailer Braking Performance was at my house yesterday doing a conversion to disc brakes. Based on my past profession as a Millwright, Inspector, and Machinery Specialist, I can highly recommend Trailer Braking Performance. Preston and Alysa are experienced, knowledgeable, and demonstrate high craftsmanship. Just as important, they have excellent safety practices.
100% recommend.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 11:48 AM   #13
Mikelff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjr vfr View Post
I've upgraded to heavy duty shackles and wet bolts. Also replaced the old Equa-Flex Equalizers. And upgraded tires to the next higher load range.

I've been interested in the Sumo trailer springs. It seems they might work better than replacing the leaf springs? I wonder who has experience with them?
It seems to me they would have more cushioning effect over adding more leaf's which would also make the suspension stiffer?
Has anyone added Sumo springs to their trailer and what do you think?
I have looked at the Sumo springs and will be going that route. I’m also adding the Heavier shackles and wet bolts. The thing I like about the Sumos is they are a progressive spring, and easy to install. Sort of a cross between a coil spring and a shock. Mine are the 500 lb. springs. At 50% compression you get 500 lbs. of resistance, per wheel, with up to 80% compression total. Thats 1000 lbs per axle. 2000 pounds for the rig. That’s quite a bit. My axles are fine, and leaf springs ok, but can use some additional support. Hard shock to the leaf springs and shackles are a bigger concern for me. Progressive springs like the sumos are great. The other thing I like is they are not metal so no rust and no breakage like a metal spring. I have not been able to find any reports of failure either. I have had progressive springs on my motorcycle, and 4 wheeler with great performance. They absorb a lot of shock and take a lot of stress off the leaf springs, and suspension overall. I have talked to several folks that have them on their 5ers and they all say they are a big improvement. Guess it depends on how much your rig needs in additional support, and how much money you want to throw at it.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 12:11 PM   #14
Mikelff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I think the Sumos for trailers are the same as for trucks aren't they - basically an overload type deal? I thought about them for the truck but just haven't focused on it long enough.

As far as them vs heavier springs IMO it would depend on what you have now vs weight. In my case, and probably in most, I don't want springs rated at well below gvw because at some point they will be supporting that weight. To me a Sumo spring would just be a stop gap type of thing for those hard hits from time to time but would do nothing for day to day support.

You said you replaced the Equa Flex - with what? I've had nothing but stellar results from the MorRyde setup.
FYI, the Sumos will give you about 150 to 200 pounds of additional support, per spring, when at rest, depending on which spring you go with. Mine are the 500lb springs. With them being a progressive spring, they do not add a lot of stiffness to the suspension while at rest, or traveling down the road in general, but do absorb a lot of shock as they compress, so when fully compressed will add that resistance to the suspension. Kind of like when you don't need a lot of extra support, you don’t have it, when you need it it’s there. Leaf springs the stiffness is there most of the time.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 12:19 PM   #15
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelff View Post
FYI, the Sumos will give you about 150 to 200 pounds of additional support, per spring, when at rest, depending on which spring you go with. Mine are the 500lb springs. With them being a progressive spring, they do not add a lot of stiffness to the suspension while at rest, or traveling down the road in general, but do absorb a lot of shock as they compress, so when fully compressed will add that resistance to the suspension. Kind of like when you don't need a lot of extra support, you don’t have it, when you need it it’s there. Leaf springs the stiffness is there most of the time.


It will be interesting to see how they work for you. Be sure and follow up with your thoughts after you have used them a while. I was/am inclined to put them on the truck because I don't like Timbrens and don't want to mess with air bags anymore. What I've read and the folks I've talked to seem to all be positive. I like the progressive nature and material used to make them but still wonder about their longevity.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 12:41 PM   #16
midnightsun
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NH
Posts: 3
I have installed the sumo springs on our outback 240URS after I started experiencing tire strikes to the under neath when the suspension bottoms out. These do add 50% increase in payload but mostly they act as a bump stop before the tire hits the underneath of the trailer.
They also help in reducing trailer sway.
midnightsun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 01:33 PM   #17
Mikelff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
It will be interesting to see how they work for you. Be sure and follow up with your thoughts after you have used them a while. I was/am inclined to put them on the truck because I don't like Timbrens and don't want to mess with air bags anymore. What I've read and the folks I've talked to seem to all be positive. I like the progressive nature and material used to make them but still wonder about their longevity.
Yes, time will tell. Speaking of time, the 5er is “in line” at the dealer for some warrenty work so it will be a few weeks before I get them on.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 05:18 PM   #18
fjr vfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Mechanicsville
Posts: 472
I've been very happy with the Sumo's on my truck. I'm happy to here some good input regarding the trailer Sumo's.
I plan on upgrading at some point when I can get to it. One thing at a time though. I'm currently working on upgrading my fridge to a compressor model and adding a second lithium battery.
fjr vfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 06:49 PM   #19
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
I'd be looking at a complete Independent Suspension (torsion axles) and disc brakes. I believe MorRyde will do the installation in Elkhart.
I have torsion axles on my bay boat trailer and a Aluma utility trailer. Love it...no leaf springs or axles.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 08:41 PM   #20
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
I'd be looking at a complete Independent Suspension (torsion axles) and disc brakes. I believe MorRyde will do the installation in Elkhart.
I have torsion axles on my bay boat trailer and a Aluma utility trailer. Love it...no leaf springs or axles.
Installation in Elkhart Indiana or Pendleton Oregon.
With a big heavy trailer or 5th wheel there's no better suspension or customer service than the MorRyde IS.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
upgrade

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.