Towing in CA with GPS

[Rick]

For those of us who tow in CA, how do you set up your GPS for navigation calculation (shorter distance vs. faster time)? As I live in CA, I have to tow at 55mph in state, so I now set mine to shorter distance. Faster time does nothing for me while towing. The GPS will usually route a longer distance (but on routes with higher speed limits which I can't use), meaning more time, depending on where I'm headed.


Rick

[bsmith0404]

Not sure what type of GPS you have, but most (if not all) have a settings adjustment where you can select route preferences. Thes preferences typically allow you to avoid toll roads, select between shorter distance or faster time, ect. If it's a factory GPS, they will typically have similar settings, but also show you multiple routes that you can choose.

[old timer]

The faster route is the best option as shortest route may take you through towns. Even though you can only drive 55 it is going to be better than 45/25 on most secondary roads.

[denverpilot]

A note of caution about newer GPS tech here also: Fastest Route may also include traffic data these days on the new stuff. Some receive it via FM subcarrier data and apps on cellular/mobile devices get it through cell data.

This can be great or detrimental. Great when it "sees" a massive traffic jam and routes you around it. Detrimental when it puts you on a route with low bridges or other problems for an RV.

I'm still amazed the largest mapping data providers still haven't gotten their you-know-what together on dynamic bridge height data to warn of construction and other things, and road use data like weight limits.

The Rand McNally RV specific GPS comes close but in the end, better get out a real map and look. Tech hasn't gotten that smart yet.

Mix the routing around traffic tech with no data on bridge or other obstruction height and you can end up following the GPS to somewhere you didn't want to be.

In the aviation world we call this "Children of the Magenta Line" syndrome... Follow the line on the GPS without thinking about it and end up in trouble.

I absolutely love my GPS apps for daily driving and avoiding traffic jellies. I give it the hairy eyeball and think about it a little harder when it says to get off the Interstate when towing heavy and tall.

Wish there was a good enough data source that the smart apps could draw from that would allow a minimum height be added to the routing criteria.

[hdxbonez]

I would use a truck/rv specific gps to avoid low bridges, truck or trailer restrictions, weight limits, widths, speed restrictions, etc.. I have a Garmin dezl that I use for work and personal that will let you set profiles based on height, weight, length, and width, for truck and trailer, rv, or car. It recieves traffic data and will route to best time per your inputs. It has never put me where I shouldnt be for work or pleasure.

[Rick]

THIS IS INCORRECT...SEE POST #12

I have a Garmin 760LMT and am lukewarm on it.

Found this on a Best Buy page-
http://reviews.bestbuy.com/answers/3...ecenta&dir=asc

The question was-
Does it allow for towing a trailer? If you have a trailer attached will it allow for the different speed requirements in different states? For instance the max speed in California when towing a trailer is 55!

Garmin's answer-
"The RV 760LMT does not support trailer limitations. Currently, the dezl 760LMT and dezl 560LMT are the only Garmin models that allow for trailer limitations.
On the RV 760LMT, the RV profile is based on width, height, overall length, and the gross weight of your RV.
Garmin"
Another answer - It shows the current speed limit without regard to the RV or state limits for trailering.


Rick

[chris199]

You can use low clearance Web service to add low clearance POI'S to many gps brands. Works well. We get low clearance warnings on our Rand McNally RV gps when we are close to a low clearance POI.

http://www.lowclearances.com/

Over 7000 US and 800 Canada low POI'S.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Rick]

Yes, my Garmin 760 allows me to enter the length, width and height of my combined TV and TT and should route me accordingly based on those factors.

Rick

[Barbell]

We have tried both the 660 and the 760 from Garmin in the last year and neither are worth a warm bucket of spit. Gamin's maps, at least in the Southwest, are so poor that in RV mode these devices simply do not work. Save your money.

[denverpilot]

Being a gadget freak I try out all sorts of stuff. And so far, everything I've tried that says it's an "RV GPS" has significant problems. I'll use them to supplement a map and a brain, but they're a long ways off from being a replacement.

I suspect that with access to cellular data networks and "immediate updates" that Apps on mobile devices will surpass "dedicated" GPS units as time goes on. At first they didn't download the map data and relied on the mobile network and that was a serious problem, but they're learning -- and most can download offline map data now.

Reading LOTS of reviews, the only App that comes up regularly as being "close but not perfect", but still often better than the performance of the standalone units, is this one.

https://copilotgps.com/us/rv-navigation/

But I haven't tried it yet. If I feel like blowing the money, I may buy it and compare it to "brain plus a map" on my trip to "middle of nowhere" South Dakota later this year.

For the stand alone units make sure to look for "long term" reviews not short term. Much of their appeal is "flash in the pan" until folks realize they'd have done a better job routing themselves, or see them utterly lock up in dense places where you really need them, or they're sitting at a truck stop with a nice diesel farm and no low overhangs and the thing says the nearest one is 15 miles away, and they notice the unit heavily favors the big name places and has only a third of reasonable stopping places really listed in its database.

NONE of them are perfect but the long term reviews put Garmin slightly under the Rand McNally unit in long term satisfaction. The fancy features like warnings about speed limits and weights are always mentioned as being wrong in places.

This is one area where the always connected "app" stuff could really shine. They can issue updates faster and more importantly, they can get "crowdsourcing" to work for them... Five or ten drivers poke a button saying the data is wrong at a particular location and they can fix it. Or if they're really smart, they build in a way to users to fix the data as volunteers, like the Waze app did for passenger cars. It's only a few hours from a road closure to Waze showing it and routing around it, these days.

The world needs a similar app for RV/Trucking data. Would sell really well and probably scare Garmin and Rand Mc into "keeping up" instead of barely getting the job done.

[hdxbonez]

I've been using CoPilot car version for years, it was one of the original android gps programs that allowed you to download map data for use in areas that had little or no cellular data coverage. It works fairly well, but has limited detail, relies on the web for detailed poi searches, and will not scale to a wide view. For $10 however, its a great backup navigator when in areas with sketchy cell signal.

I will say again that I use the Garmin dezl 760 as a professional driver, on a daily basis, and haven't encountered any of the issues that others have mentioned. It always routes correctly and provides any relevant warnings per my profile inputs. Lane guidance and turn previews are spot on. Never an issue finding an address or poi.

[Rick]

Well, since my first post, I've contacted Garmin about the CA 55mph towing speed. Seems their reply on the Best Buy page is incorrect. This is what they say-

"The routing capabilities of the RV 760 are built off of the truck routing features of our dezl trucking line. In some areas, separate speed limits exist for commercial trucks, but do not apply to RV. In these situations the RV 760 will display the ‘trucking’ speed limit.

Please be advised that setting the Gross Weight below 3.5 tons also will disable use of the RV Profile, providing possible car speeds. As long as the profile is set correctly with the weight, then you should continue to get your trucking speeds."

That's exactly what it did to me. I'd only put in the weight of my trailer and it was under 6,500lbs. I then entered a weight of 10,000lbs (5 tons) and now it makes the speed on the highway 55mph for me, regardless of the posted speed. That's good!

So now it looks like I'll either be routed as a car, or as a semi truck.

Oh well, what works for one person doesn't for another. I'll just have to look at different routing suggestions and plan my route accordingly.

Rick

[hdxbonez]

Originally Posted by Rick

Well, since my first post, I've contacted Garmin about the CA 55mph towing speed. Seems their reply on the Best Buy page is incorrect. This is what they say-

"The routing capabilities of the RV 760 are built off of the truck routing features of our dezl trucking line. In some areas, separate speed limits exist for commercial trucks, but do not apply to RV. In these situations the RV 760 will display the ‘trucking’ speed limit.

Please be advised that setting the Gross Weight below 3.5 tons also will disable use of the RV Profile, providing possible car speeds. As long as the profile is set correctly with the weight, then you should continue to get your trucking speeds."

That's exactly what it did to me. I'd only put in the weight of my trailer and it was under 6,500lbs. I then entered a weight of 10,000lbs (5 tons) and now it makes the speed on the highway 55mph for me, regardless of the posted speed. That's good!

So now it looks like I'll either be routed as a car, or as a semi truck.

Oh well, what works for one person doesn't for another. I'll just have to look at different routing suggestions and plan my route accordingly.

Rick

Gross weight would typically include the max weight of the tow vehicle and trailer combined

[denverpilot]

Rick, since most of us aren't in California -- are there places where the Semi Truck, RV, and car speeds are all different?

Reading through your reply from Garmin with a software guy's trained eye, it appears that they're saying they'll hand out the semi speed above a certain weight -- but it's not clear to me that this is the correct speed for an RV.

If there's three speeds, their software has a pretty significant flaw. If you're saying that upping your weight to the correct weight for your combined TV plus Rig, switched you to semi speeds and semi speeds are the correct legal limit, that's great. Means they got it right.

Can you elaborate a little on California's rules?

(I think you're also convincing me I don't want to go anywhere near California with my fiver... Haha... No offense, but I probably wouldn't have anyway...)

[old timer]

In California if you are pulling any trailer with any vehicle the speed is 55. There are signs that say that here. You are confined to the right 2 lanes also and on 2 lane going the same way you need to stay to the right except to pass another truck. Truckers hate to drive here. it takes them forever to get anywhere and they clog up the traffic going slow.

As for the GPS I have the one that came in the truck. Not sure why they wouldnt put a towing mode in there as the reason to buy a 3/4 tun truck is to tow with it.

[denverpilot]

Originally Posted by old timer

In California if you are pulling any trailer with any vehicle the speed is 55.

Okay got it. Thanks.

Honestly, 55 doesn't bother me at all. Mostly because I have the low gear ratio in my older Dodge/Cummins, and even attempting to do 70 is a loud, high-RPM, noisy, process. Adds to road fatigue and isn't the best for the diesel. I bought it used, but I wouldn't buy this low a gear set next time. Works good in hills/mountains, but has the trade off of being loud and tiring on the flat.

I don't find slower speeds to be all that big a difference in calculated average speed on longer trips overall...

Even if it was all highway and almost no slow side street time to lower the average trip speed number, a 10 MPH difference is only 80 more miles down the road in eight solid hours of driving with no stops. Add in a fuel stop, and it's just a fallacy that you're "not getting anywhere" because of a slower highway speed. You also up the collision force by a multiple with speed, basic physics.

55 X 8 = 440
65 X 8 = 520

People don't do the math, nor have most even had a basic physics class, which is why you see morons doing 80+ in their cars. I'm going to be about three to five minutes behind them into off ramp and fuel stop. I usually wave and smile at the stop light at the really aggressive ones. Ha. And I'm not paid to tow my fiver by the mile. Grin...

But then again, there's this non-obvious conundrum in collision physics that says the old wives tale of two vehicles hitting, both doing 50 MPH does not equal one vehicle hitting a wall at 100 MPH, and this one is a hard one for most folks to grasp.

http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html

Anyway, got me started on my pet peeve. Sorry. Ha. We talk about this in airplane landings, too... Hitting things slow is always better than hitting them fast... People who want to land without flaps (increases lift, decreases wing stall speed, lowers overall landing speed) in gusty conditions for "more control" are usually ignorant of the numbers and forces involved if they do lose control and strike an object.

Thanks for the California info! 55 is fine by me!

As far as the on board GPS goes... I'm with you that these gadgets often aren't built to be all that "smart"... Your brain trumps the guy writing software in a cubical farm's brain who hasn't ever towed anything heavy, and is writing code to meet a release deadline! Heh. (I work in IT and Telecom, and trust me, most coders of these gadgets haven't used them in the real world... You should see some of the odd things the avionics guys do in aviation GPS units!)

Good tech discussion. Having worked in tech most of my adult life, I probably trust it less than most. I've seen the sausage being made in the factory, so to speak. Haha.

[Desert185]

[QUOTE=denverpilot;

Anyway, got me started on my pet peeve. Sorry. Ha. We talk about this in airplane landings, too... Hitting things slow is always better than hitting them fast... People who want to land without flaps (increases lift, decreases wing stall speed, lowers overall landing speed) in gusty conditions for "more control" are usually ignorant of the numbers and forces involved if they do lose control and strike an object.

[/QUOTE]

Except that some general aviation aircraft handle better with reduced flaps in a crosswind.

[denverpilot]

Originally Posted by Desert185

Except that some general aviation aircraft handle better with reduced flaps in a crosswind.

Off topic, but name one.

Bonus points: Back it up with something from the manufacturer that says it does, like a POH reference that specifically states that they need to be retracted to reach max demonstrated crosswind numbers.

(It's mostly an old wives tale. I can think of one hmm, kind, that may need it. And your username hints that you may fly one. That should give a hint that I didn't say category or class... and you'd probably have big brass ones to try it... Tail wheel. But as soon as you slow, you're going for a wild ride, so it's really not that practical. And you're right that I was talking GA, not Transport Category.)

Certainly enough of this OWT around that Cessna and Piper nose dragger drivers think it's true, but it's not, for those aircraft. I think you'll find more people fly stuff where it's not true, than where it is.

We can wander off to PMs if you like. Don't want to bore everyone to death with the aerodynamics of it.

[Rick]

Oldtimer is right about the CA towing speeds and this also applies to 3 axle vehicles. Here's a link to other states towing laws -
http://towingworld.com/towinglaws.cfm

So the deal is that the Garmin 760LMT is kinda no good for 2 axle RV's. Once you put in a weight greater than 6,500lbs in "RV" mode, it thinks you're a semi truck with a trailer. In CA, the GPS will display a max speed of 55mph, when in reality that driver might be able to do 70.

I guess the bottom line is to still look at your route using multiple devices (maps, apps, etc.) and plan accordingly.

Rick

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by denverpilot

Off topic, but name one.

Bonus points: Back it up with something from the manufacturer that says it does, like a POH reference that specifically states that they need to be retracted to reach max demonstrated crosswind numbers.

(It's mostly an old wives tale. I can think of one hmm, kind, that may need it. And your username hints that you may fly one. That should give a hint that I didn't say category or class... and you'd probably have big brass ones to try it... Tail wheel. But as soon as you slow, you're going for a wild ride, so it's really not that practical. And you're right that I was talking GA, not Transport Category.)

Certainly enough of this OWT around that Cessna and Piper nose dragger drivers think it's true, but it's not, for those aircraft. I think you'll find more people fly stuff where it's not true, than where it is.

We can wander off to PMs if you like. Don't want to bore everyone to death with the aerodynamics of it.

You made a broad statement on a topic that doesn't react well to broad statements. I've been a CFI since 1968 with experience in GA (including tailwheel mountain flying), corporate, airline and gov't research flying. While that doesn't ensure that I know what I'm talking about, I do, but this isn't the forum for that. Since I am retired, I no longer have the need to "strut my colors" with expert pilots wearing big watches.

To address the thread subject, I usually tow @ 60 MPH (even in Kalifornia) and use 50 MPH as an average speed for the known distance to be traveled, this compensates for stops on a 300-400 mile day. The app I use is Waze, which isn't a focused rv/big rig app, but it serves my purpose.