202QBWE Solar/Inverter/LiPo Build

[MrKABC]

2022 202QBWE with the Solar 200i package:

• Replaced OEM Victron 75/15 with 100/50
• Added 2 more 200w solar panels in series to OEM 200w

That's where I am at so far. Still running the OEM group 24 wet lead/acid batter but will be adding the following parts:

• Battle Born LiPo GC2 100Ah (3)
• Victron BMV712 shunt/monitor
• Blue Sea 200A fuse
• Victron Multiplus300VA Inverter/Txfer switch

Before I run more wires, set up the bus bars and such I wanted input from those more experienced than me to advise me as to where would be the best place to put the shunt, fuse, inverter, and trailer cutoff switch.

I know the on/off switch goes on the positive side from the battery, and the shunt on the negative side, but not sure how to do this in a multi-battery setup?

Attaching the diagram I have so far, with the remaining items in the "Add Items" red box.

Any help would be appreciated!

[firestation12]

Good job so far on your upgrades! You asked about where to locate the shunt, positive disconnect and 200 amp fuse. You will want to keep them as close as possible to the battery bank positive and negative posts. It’s important that the parallel battery bank’s negative and positive output cables be located at opposite ends. To do otherwise will place the load on the first battery rather that distribute the load equally amongst the three batteries. On your bumper pull I’d look at putting the disconnect, shunt, fuse in the front exterior compartment. You didn’t mention if there was DC rated disconnecting breaker between the solar controller and the solar panels. This is a necessary item to allow proper sequence of connecting the battery first to the solar controller then allowing the panels to join the solar controller afterwards. When performing alterations to the solar system, the DC breaker makes it easy then, to reverse the linking process. Your solar controller instructions should also caution you to follow this sequence. DC voltage requires a different arc protection than AC voltage. On another note, the Battle Born batteries you are considering are certainly highly rated, but are among the priciest of the LiPo4 batteries. Will Prowse has posted many YouTube videos comparing different brands at different price points. you may want to do some shopping before plopping down $2,700 for the three BB batteries. It has been suggested a man should have been born with three arms….two to work with and a 3rd arm to pat himself on the back. Best wishes in creating a project worthy of patting yourself on the back after all is done!

[Cheesehead4Life]

The fuse should be as close as practical to the battery. ABYC standards are 7" or 8" (can't recall which) from the battery.

The switch can depend on what you want out of this. My master battery switch is right after the fuse. If you go that route, there's a change you can directly attach the switch to the fuse holder. That can save a cable/lug setup between the two. I still wanted to be able to disconnect the RV DC panel system, but have other loads on the busbar powered full time, so I have a circuit breaker on the cable leading to the DC panel so I can isolate that.

The shunt, as you said, is on the negative site. Keep that close to the battery, and know that all negatives should be connected to the load side of the shunt. Nothing else should be connected to the negative battery terminal except the shunt. The small red power lead from the shunt should go to a battery terminal, not the bus. That is the power for the shunt, but will also be the voltage detector and you want the reading to be right at the battery. That will help your solar charge controller charge to the correct voltage after you setup the Shunt and the MPPT on a bluetooth network.

The inverter should be as close to the batteries as possible. These will be large cables, and your voltage drop would get a bit too much if they are far apart (unless you spend big $$ on even larger cables).

The batteries will be parallel, and make sure to connect the positive lead to the one end battery, and the negative lead to the battery at the opposite end of the bank. Victron details this in the manual.

Fire back any additonal questions.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by firestation12

You asked about where to locate the shunt, positive disconnect and 200 amp fuse. You will want to keep them as close as possible to the battery bank positive and negative posts. It’s important that the parallel battery bank’s negative and positive output cables be located at opposite ends.
...
On another note, the Battle Born batteries you are considering are certainly highly rated, but are among the priciest of the LiPo4 batteries.

@firestation12 thank you for the feedback! So I would place the shunt/interrupt switch in this sequence? I read somewhere else (anecdotal of course) that a larger load would be placed upon the "end" connections to the bus bar and wear out those batteries sooner, and that it was best to connect each battery individually to the bus bar. I think it's easier doing it the way the diagram illustrates and would rather do it that way. What do you think?

https://battlebornbatteries.com/wp-c...6_08282023.pdf (PAGE 5 is where I borrowed the image from)

I already own 2 BBGC2 batteries and just purchased a 3rd one. It's already a "sunk cost", LOL. Got them for $699 each at a Black Friday sale in 2020. I do like the small form factor that makes it easier to place the batteries in the trailer since space is at a premium - and I plan to get a fourth and final one this Black Friday if BB has a sale.

The other photo is how I had them installed in my prior Jayco TT (the one I traded for my current 202QBWE). Very compact space but it was pretty efficient for what it was - my current plan is to do bigger and better this go around to best be equipped for boondocking.

EDIT: Is this the DC circuit breaker that would go between the panel array and the MPPT?

https://www.amazon.com/Low-voltage-C...9&sr=8-49&th=1

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

@firestation12 thank you for the feedback! So I would place the shunt/interrupt switch in this sequence? I read somewhere else (anecdotal of course) that a larger load would be placed upon the "end" connections to the bus bar and wear out those batteries sooner, and that it was best to connect each battery individually to the bus bar. I think it's easier doing it the way the diagram illustrates and would rather do it that way. What do you think?

https://battlebornbatteries.com/wp-c...6_08282023.pdf (PAGE 5 is where I borrowed the image from)

I already own 2 BBGC2 batteries and just purchased a 3rd one. It's already a "sunk cost", LOL. Got them for $699 each at a Black Friday sale in 2020. I do like the small form factor that makes it easier to place the batteries in the trailer since space is at a premium - and I plan to get a fourth and final one this Black Friday if BB has a sale.

The other photo is how I had them installed in my prior Jayco TT (the one I traded for my current 202QBWE). Very compact space but it was pretty efficient for what it was - my current plan is to do bigger and better this go around to best be equipped for boondocking.

EDIT: Is this the DC circuit breaker that would go between the panel array and the MPPT?

https://www.amazon.com/Low-voltage-C...9&sr=8-49&th=1

There is no discrepancy between what I was saying about placing the positive and negative cables at opposite corners and the drawing you provided. Note the positive and negative input and output are at opposite ends just as I described. If you were to place both cables on the same battery shown on the top left corner, a disproportionate load would be placed on that first battery as well as each battery in descending order.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by Cheesehead4Life

The fuse should be as close as practical to the battery. ABYC standards are 7" or 8" (can't recall which) from the battery.

The switch can depend on what you want out of this. My master battery switch is right after the fuse. If you go that route, there's a change you can directly attach the switch to the fuse holder. That can save a cable/lug setup between the two. I still wanted to be able to disconnect the RV DC panel system, but have other loads on the busbar powered full time, so I have a circuit breaker on the cable leading to the DC panel so I can isolate that.

The shunt, as you said, is on the negative site. Keep that close to the battery, and know that all negatives should be connected to the load side of the shunt. Nothing else should be connected to the negative battery terminal except the shunt. The small red power lead from the shunt should go to a battery terminal, not the bus. That is the power for the shunt, but will also be the voltage detector and you want the reading to be right at the battery. That will help your solar charge controller charge to the correct voltage after you setup the Shunt and the MPPT on a bluetooth network.

The inverter should be as close to the batteries as possible. These will be large cables, and your voltage drop would get a bit too much if they are far apart (unless you spend big $$ on even larger cables).

The batteries will be parallel, and make sure to connect the positive lead to the one end battery, and the negative lead to the battery at the opposite end of the bank. Victron details this in the manual.

Fire back any additonal questions.

@Cheesehead4Life I am working out logistical problems since I want to relocate the batteries AWAY from the hitch battery box and to the rear of the trailer under the dinette. As @firestation12 mentioned above, LiPo batteries ain't cheap and I want to make sure that they don't magically grow legs and go traveling. I also want to be closer to the WFCO circuit panel to minimize large runs for the future inverter wiring as well.

Here's my plan - (ATTACHED!)

• Delete hitch battery box and remove battery +/- wiring
• Install LiPo batteries, bus bars, etc at rear under dinette. 4G wire to bus.
• Wiring under Darco/flooring to WFCO panel 12v input, (-) bus bar to chassis ground
• (FUTURE) Install J Box in WFCO panel space, wire 30A Shore Power input cable to J Box
• (FUTURE) 10/2 Romex to Inverter
• (FUTURE) 10/2 Romex to WFCO panel
• (FUTURE) Cat 5 run to Inverter control panel, location TBD

I did this before (minus the Inverter) in my old Jayco 195RB and it worked well. Naturally, this is a lot more ambitious and this is why I come to you folks for advice BEFORE I make one or more potentially expensive/dangerous mistakes.

From what I am gathering so far the bus bar/battery relocation/fuse/shunt should be OK, with the ONLY question being where/how to locate the "on/off" switch off the (+) side of the bus. It's currently in the "input box" on the trailer hitch and I don't see how I can keep it there if I relocate the batteries.

The Inverter will be an entirely different can of worms that I will do in the future once I purchase it.

PERILS? PITFALLS? POTENTIAL "I TOLD YOU SOs"?

Thank you for any and all suggestions/knowledge! I really appreciate you.

[Cheesehead4Life]

Originally Posted by MrKABC

PERILS? PITFALLS? POTENTIAL "I TOLD YOU SOs"?

A couple of other comments/suggestions:

Leave room for expansion in case you would end up expanding, like a second MPPT. If you think you'd add more solar panels, maybe run another set of wires while things are open.

Under the dinette, after you install an inverter, you'll want to watch the temperatures in an enclosed space. You'll likely be mounting it horizontally which is fine, but it does reduce the natural convection cooling a bit. Avoid mounting any components where you might add a vent, or small fan for active cooling.

[MrKABC]

Three batteries. Three 200w solar panels. Getting ready to do the wiring run. Any last minute tips?

[SargeW]

Will you be using a WFCO converter to handle the charging duties for the solar panels while hooked up to shore power?

[MrKABC]

@SargeW the WFCO panel and the MPPT controller will both be hooked up to the bus bars.

When on shore power the solar controller will be secondary to the WFCO shore power feed.

[SargeW]

I asked because I just had to send my converter back to them in Indiana for a firmware update. The converter was not kicking into LI mode, and thus the charge cycles were taking for ever.

Here is a link to a post that I just made a few days ago. It is fully explained along with the fix. https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=55756

My rig is a 2023 Passport 2400RBWE and came equipped from the factory with the Solarflex 400, Xantrex 2000 watt inverter, Victron smart solar controller and shunt, and 2 Dragonfly 100 amp hour batteries. The converter is a WFCO 9855AD which is designed to "auto detect" between LA and LI batteries. It wasn't. The new firmware will make it a LI only charger, thus skipping the LA mode.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by SargeW

I asked because I just had to send my converter back to them in Indiana for a firmware update. The converter was not kicking into LI mode, and thus the charge cycles were taking for ever.

Here is a link to a post that I just made a few days ago. It is fully explained along with the fix. https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=55756

My rig is a 2023 Passport 2400RBWE and came equipped from the factory with the Solarflex 400, Xantrex 2000 watt inverter, Victron smart solar controller and shunt, and 2 Dragonfly 100 amp hour batteries. The converter is a WFCO 9855AD which is designed to "auto detect" between LA and LI batteries. It wasn't. The new firmware will make it a LI only charger, thus skipping the LA mode.

Mine is a WFCO 8955-AD. No sticker on it. I saw your post about the defect in yours due to firmware. What a PITA to disconnect the whole thing and send it back for an upgrade.

The Progressive Dynamics corollary for me is the PD4060KV. I'd probably toss the WFCO in the trash and go with Progressive Dynamics if I have to go to the trouble of disconnecting it just because WFCO couldn't get their act together. Not my first rodeo doing that either, WFCO sucks. I guess we'll see.

https://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4000-series/

[SargeW]

I'm not sure who messed this up, WFCO or Keystone. Either way, it wasn't working. I will give the WFCO a try when it gets back next week. If it indeed fails, I will be shopping for a new converter as well.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by SargeW

I'm not sure who messed this up, WFCO or Keystone. Either way, it wasn't working. I will give the WFCO a try when it gets back next week. If it indeed fails, I will be shopping for a new converter as well.

@SargeW you sent this whole box back to WFCO???

[SargeW]

No, my converter is a stand alone Deck Converter. It sits in back of the power center and only connects with 2 wires and an electric plug.

Yours looks to be there at the bottom, but the hook up will be similar. There are You Tube video's that show the removal of one like yours. It's not that hard.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by SargeW

No, my converter is a stand alone Deck Converter. It sits in back of the power center and only connects with 2 wires and an electric plug.

Yours looks to be there at the bottom, but the hook up will be similar. There are You Tube video's that show the removal of one like yours. It's not that hard.

So essentially it's this box that needs to be sent in if it doesn't work?

[SargeW]

Yeah, those 2 screws there in the front are part of what's holding it in. The You Tube video I saw said there were 4 screws holding it in.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by SargeW

Yeah, those 2 screws there in the front are part of what's holding it in. The You Tube video I saw said there were 4 screws holding it in.

OK, we will see how this goes then! I'm waiting for my inverter to arrive, and then I will begin the installation.

The **Victron MultiPlus** is a combined inverter and charger that comes in various models, including the **3000VA 12V** version¹. It is a multifunctional device that features a true sine wave inverter, adaptive charging, hybrid PowerAssist technology, and multiple system integration capabilities¹. The MultiPlus is designed to prevent overload of a limited AC source, such as a generator or shore power connection¹. It also provides uninterrupted AC power in the event of a grid failure or when shore or generator power is disconnected¹. The MultiPlus can be used in parallel with up to 6 units to achieve higher power output¹. Remote monitoring and control are possible when coupled with a GX device, allowing you to monitor and control your system from anywhere in the world¹.

For more information about the Victron MultiPlus and its specifications, you can visit the official Victron Energy website ¹.

• Plywood base cut and ready to accept components
• Circuit box pulled and ready to drill holes in floor (need to watch that fresh water tank!)
• J-Box for shore power cable installed. 10-2 Romex run to Inverter will be done when final inverter location determined.
• Bus Bars, Blue Sea 200A fuse, Victron BMV712 shunt mounted.
• 4G wire to be used for all bus bar/inverter/switch connections
• Hitch wiring box open and front battery mount and wiring removed. (can't call it "giggy" box that is the stupidest name EVER)
• Solar panel switch installed to disable input wiring to MPPT. I hate it being in the front passthrough but can't do anything about that right now.
• Front panel still open (from my Garnet See Level install, see other thread), pulled ceiling light and will fish Cat 5 control wires from my new battery compartment to the control panel. This will run my BMV readout and the inverter control panel, both to be located up front.
• Progress to date below! This Saturday comes the wiring runs, holes in floor, Romex run, and powering up the system using my 3 Battle Borns.

Wish me luck!

[JRTJH]

MrKABC,

I'm certainly no "all things solar" expert, but you may want to consider two "points to clarify" with your installation.

1. Is the "inverter/charger" that you are installing intended to be a battery charger only or is it also a converter designed to provide power for the 12 volt systems in the trailer, effectively replacing all the functions of your current WFCO converter/charger ????

2. If it is "only a dedicated charger" and does not have the capability to provide 12 volt power to the trailer systems when on shore power, what modifications to the existing wiring system will you need to make (if any) so you can "move battery charging to the inverter/charger (so you can charge lithium batteries at the higher voltage) and still use your WFCO as a converter to power the trailer 12 volt systems while no longer charging the battery at the lower voltage ?????

There may be some provisions already addressed in your installation guides for your new equipment, but you may wind up with all of your trailer 12 volt systems being "routed through the battery" and that inverter/charger not being capable of being a converter for all 12 volt systems plus being a charger for the battery itself.....

Maybe you've already addressed this and have a solution to how to use both, or maybe your inverter/charger is capable of providing enough power to do both ????

[MrKABC]

@JRTJH

1) AFAIK is a battery charger. The thing about Victron is their documentation is, well, less than comprehensive. I'm not an electrical engineer so some of this is going to be guesswork.

2) I am not sure? Need to take the WFCO apart and see how the charger is wired. I know Progressive Dynamics panels have the ability to disable the charging function to accommodate external chargers. WFCO is also sparsely documented like the Victron. Truly Wild West here. Of course, I'm deviating from the program a bit here by placing my inverter between the shore power inlet and the WFCO, thereby powering EVERY AC device including air conditioning and microwave. I know I don't have sufficient battery/solar capacity at the moment to run, say, my AC but I want to set it up for future expansion.

I was hoping the documentation would be more thorough but it isn't. Before I start hacking things up I need to do more research. Lots more research.

BTW this thing is a big heavy bastard! 50 lbs of heat sink. I'll draw up a schematic of what I'm considering and run it by some forum members here that already have this unit. Maybe I'm over thinking it?