All the tire discussions have me terrified AND confused.

[X-Treme]

Ok. So... I have these "dreaded" (as everyone is calling them) Powerking Towmax's tires on my Alpine and have been hearing pretty much nothing but bad things about them, and now I'm almost scared to take my trailer on another trip. Now, it seems like most, if not all, are suggesting going with Maxxis tires. A lot of talk about staying away, with every ounce of our being, from Chinese tires. So, today, I phone one of our tire distributors (I own an auto repair business) and ask about Maxxis tires. Guy asks me why I want to go to Maxxis so badly, so I tell him that I wanna stay away from the "Chinese crap". He tells me that Maxxis tires are manufactured in China by the Cheng Shin Rubber company. As a matter of fact, if you Google that company, the very first Search that comes up is Maxxis tires.

So, now, what gives? Now, what the heck am I supposed to do? Park it and never take it out again?

Help!!!

[CWtheMan]

Maxxis trailer tires are made in Thailand and Taiwan. However, Maxxis has their largest tire plant and test facility is in mainland China.

The TowMax tires have been abused by many of the trailer manufacturers just like the Marathons were before them. The new TowMax STR tires are much improved. They now have added nylon overlays - like Maxxis did - and have a free roadside assistance program. They also increased their warranty to four years. I’ve been running on TowMax ST235/80R16E tires since 2005. I’m on a second complete set and have not had a failure other than a cut sidewall two years ago. My GAW - scaled - is right at 11,400# on 6000# axles. So I have a nice 23% load capacity reserve above GAW and 17% load capacity reserve above GAWR. It works.

CW

[Halibutman214]

I had the same question awhile back and if you check my post you will see this is way overblown. http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...ghlight=towmax. I'm headed to Alaska and after reading many of these posts I started thinking I should change out my tires. In addition to this informal survey I talked to 5 different tire dealers in my area and they all said pretty much the same thing, there are just as many tire failures with Maxxis as there are with Power Max. 90% of the failures are caused by improper inflation and/or overloading combined with excessive speed. Two of these dealers sold Maxxis. I think you will find the same thing if you call around a bit and ask tire dealers if Towmax is an inferior tire. It's just not the case.

[azlee56]

My head has been swimming as well, but I really enjoyed reading CW's blog. Click on the site that is in his signature. It really is an interesting read.

[Halibutman214]

Originally Posted by azlee56

My head has been swimming as well, but I really enjoyed reading CW's blog. Click on the site that is in his signature. It really is an interesting read.

Ditto! I missed the link in my first read. May I make a suggestion. Anytime a post is made with the word "tire", anywhere in it the user is forced to this blog and must first read it before being allowed to post.
I didn't think an Airdale could be so wordy. Great blog!
BTCS (SW) USN Retired

[MIKEPATC]

You will find that forums seem to be for all things bad and very little is for when things are going well. It is good to be aware of what could go wrong and take care of your stuff accordingly. I am monitoring my tires with my TST TPMS. So far the trailer Tomax tires are performing well. My truck tires vary more than the trailer. Keep the pressures right, watch your speed and don't overload.

[geo]

X-treme -

No matter what the subject, you will always find someone who will "tell you that you are wrong and this is exactly what you should do". Personally, I gave up on these personality types long ago. Do what you feel is right. What is right for you. If I remember correctly, you said on another thread that you check the air pressure and inspect your tires regularly. Also, didn't you also mention that you abide by the tire manufacturer's suggested speed limitations? If you do that, and are happy with the performance of your tires . . . what else do you need? There are RV owners who like the Power King tires and have very good experiences. There are those who like Maxxis, Michelin, Goodyear, etc. And probably everyone will have an opinion and a few will insist you do what they tell you.

I thought the information given on Goodyear's "Tire Care & Maintenance" website is timely. It is not specifically geared to only Goodyear tires as can be seen in their first paragraph: "Goodyear, the tire industry, the automotive industry, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and Transport Canada have long emphasized the consumers' role in the regular care and maintenance of tires, including decisions regarding removal of tires. That is why it is recommended to have tires, including spare tires, inspected regularly." Note the phrase, " . . . emphasized the consumer's role . . . " Here is the link to that information: http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire-...intenance.aspx

Perhaps Shakespeare phrased it best: "To thine own self be true". Take all the information, digest it, and do what you are most comfortable with and believe is correct.

Ron

[Outbackmel]

These circular discussions will continue. I have plenty of camping friends who have had tire failures for whatever reason. As others have stated, a properly set up, weight distributed RV, tires balanced, good tread, lug nuts properly torqued, correct air pressure for your departure and considering weather, etc to where you are going, reduces risk; period.

Yes, tires can fail and will fail. Issues are not restricted to rv's. A friend lost his wife on a motorcycle on I 95 in Florida at 60mph on a Sunday morning from a surprise blow out on a fairly new tire. Threw both off the bike and she passed from brain swelling. (wearing helmets and protective gear)

Point is S_ _ _ happens to all of us. Let's be cautious as we do our RV travels by first making sure we have taken all of the pre trip checks BEFORE we hit the road. I am amazed when I see fifth wheels sloped way down or way high when rolling down the interstate at 75+ mph. TT's swaying all over the road when a truck passes or I have to pass because they are scared to death driving only 45 mph, white knuckled.

Best advice, stay the H _ _ _ away from them! There is no cure for STUPID!

AND finally, if you are afraid to tow that thing, PLEASE STAY HOME and camp in your yard. Pretend you traveled 500 miles and are in a park or some place.
Cover your windows with pictures of calm scenes and drink a six pack of cool ones. At the end of your vacation, you will be surprised at how fast you made it home, without any towing or tire issues!!

Seriously, I enjoy the comments I receive when I post on this forum and believe it offers "well intentioned" advice. A couple of times I have used it for quick responses and found them to jump start my thinking to things I simply overlooked when attempting to resolve a problem. 99% of campers I am referring to above DO NOT use this forum. The other 1%, well, you know...

[Jim W]

I am a retired engineer and I am on many different forums such as this one, RV Net and IRV2.Com. Chinese tires are always discussed and complain about on how they fail so easily and the damage they do.

So with that information in mind when I purchased a 2010, 318SAB Cougar I bought the optional 16" tires that Keystone offered they were ST235/80R16 tire. I also bought an IF heat gun to measure the tire temperatures when towing along with that I also check air pressure every morning before we start out towing the 5er. I also check static wheel nut torque at this time too.

Last year we had a tire failure in Kearney NE, 10 minutes after leaving the campground. I do not know what caused this tire failure, but it did almost $3k in damage to the trailer. After that experience I decided on Michelins XPRIBS, LT245/75R/16E tire would be installed on the trailer. Michelin rates these tires as an all position tire IE trailer, steer axle and or drive axle. These tires are rated at 3042 LBS at 80 PSI. This is more than enough tire for my 318SAB Cougar, since I have 6,000 LB axles on the trailer.
Sorry for the long post but just wanted to provide another tire for you to look at.
Jim W.

[DocData757]

Michelin makes a ST235/85R16 E. Any reason you went with the 245/75R16s?

Just curious since I will replace mine in the near future was was looking at the 235/85.

..and just to get myself more confused.

The Michelin's are rated at 3042# per tire with a top speed of 75. The Maxxis is rated for 3420 and 65 mph.

My Alpine's tags shows GVAW of 3420 (per axle).

???

Thanks,

[Jim W]

Dave,
I am also a member of Turbo Diesel Register.com. There are several members on that forum who have had several years of towing experience, both as towing for RV manufactures and towing their own 5ers. All of them have had nothing but good things to say about Michelins XPRIBS, most have gotten 5 to 6 years life out of their tires.
I also did research on the Michelin XPRIBS myself as far as life goals and failure rates are concerned. The Michelin XPRIBS have the lowest failure rate in the market place today in my opinion. The tires are a commercial highway truck tire that has a third steel belt imbed into the tire that will protect against punctures, also providing longer wear life with a deeper tread than the standard ST tire.
Now the Alpine GVAW are you sure that they are only rated for 3420 per axle? My axles on the Cougar are 6000 LBs axles but since the trailer was standard with 15" tires the GVAW is 5200 LBS each on the weight placard.
So I could easily use the 3042 LBS rated tire of the Michelin XPRIBS, since two tires together will support 6084 LBS. I also choose the XPRIBS for the cross sectional area since they are only 1" (one) larger than the ST235/80R/16E tire and will fit in to the wheel well of the trailer with clearance between the frame and tire.
Jim W.

[Halibutman214]

Originally Posted by Jim W

Dave,
in my opinion. Jim W.

We all have one. That's what I like about CW's blog, it's not "just opinion", he's got a lot of facts to back it up.

[smiller]

Originally Posted by Halibutman214

I think you will find the same thing if you call around a bit and ask tire dealers if Towmax is an inferior tire. It's just not the case.

Then Maxxis wastes a lot of material when they build their tires. If you compare the sidewall (with the tire off the rim) of equivalent Towmax and Maxxis tires you will see what I mean. Does the readily observable heavier construction of the Maxxis tire make it more reliable? I don't know for sure but I know what my assumption would be.

I'm not trying to slam Towmax, I had a set and didn't experience any problems. I do think it is incorrect to say that the number of reported failures of the two brands is the same though, or at least that is certainly not what my own research indicated. YMMV.

[pjhansman]

I have the Towmax tires on my 5ver. Almost 12k miles without issue.

That being said, I check tire pressures every time it goes on the road. I also visually check for cracks or bulges, and "hand check" tire temps at each stop during the day.

And I very rarely exceed 65mph (unlike when I drive my Hemi )

And I expect when I replace them I'll be going to the Michelin Ribs.

[DocData757]

My placards shows 15500# for GVW with each axle carrying 6840#. I have 7000# axles. I just double checked. So, it seems the RIBs will not work for me. The Maxxis may be how I have to go.

Interestingly enough, the TowMax are rated at 100# more than the Maxxis but I did not find a max speed. I've sent in an email.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by DocData757

My placards shows 15500# for GVW with each axle carrying 6840#. I have 7000# axles. I just double checked. So, it seems the RIBs will not work for me. The Maxxis may be how I have to go.

Interestingly enough, the TowMax are rated at 100# more than the Maxxis but I did not find a max speed. I've sent in an email.

You have - what I call - a Keystone catch-22 trailer. That’s mainly because they were locked up with Goodyear as their OEM tire supplier during the time of many production models having GVW above 6000# but somewhat less than 7000#. The 16” marathon LRE is rated at 3420#. So, Keystone would then set the 7000# axles at 6750# (but, as you say it’s 6840 on your label), and put that value on the certification label. (It’s legal because that particular regulation requires the vehicle manufacturer to set the GAWR and certify it). You do not have to match the actual axles load capacity, just what’s on the certification label. Keystone is pretty good at following the regulations. The problem is it allows them to skimp on tires and has caused a lot of grief among their buyers.

There are zero suitable 16” LRE LT tires for fitment on your axles as certified. It’s more ST tires, move up to the LRG 16” LT tires or some 17.5” LRF or LRG low profile truck trailer tires. All of those options are going to require new rims.

All ST tires have a 65 MPH speed limit unless a manufacturer such as Carlisle has stipulated something less in their tire data book. To be fair, their new Radial Trail tires are rated at 65 MPH, according to their new video.

CW

p.s. Thanks to those of you that have commented on my blog. I put a lot of time in making it as accurate as the available information will allow. Many of the TRA procedures are not found on the internet so I have to look for members to squeeze the information from.

On edit: I’ve been to three major RV shows this year researching certification labels and Goodyear Marathon tires. Keystone is not the only one abusing them. Goodyear has taken a lot of really bad raps on internet forums about their Marathons going POP. People have a tendency to overload their trailers when the use them just like they do their cars and trucks on trips. Cars and trucks have a built-in load capacity reserves - by regulations - that RV trailers don’t have. Here is a certification label from another manufacturer.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=20839

I’ve also done some research on suitable replacement tires for these odd certification GAWRs. This in no way is an endorsement of this line of tires. It’s just one of many found on the market with the design, load capacity and overall dimensions to replace the ST tires.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/detail/ry103

[geo]

I cannot say this for all Alpine models or for all Keystone models . . .

On the 2011 Alpine 3640RL model, the Lippert I-beam frame upon which the RV is constructed, there is an empty (unused) shock bracket located behind the port front tire and the starboard rear tire. If one starts changing tire profile or rim size, this bracket may or may not be a problem. I would encourage one to check the clearance between this bracket and the tire accordingly.

Ron

[chris199]

Have to confess I was intimidated by tire horror stories. Prior to a trip from SE PA to TN ordered the TST TPMS. Put monitors on 2 rear truck tires and all 4 trailer tires. Drove 60 o 62 mph down and back. Pressures and temps were very constant once they warmed up. Got a temp alarm on one only because I didn't set the alarm correctly. Getting the alarm was reassuring. I figure the drop from 70 mph to 60 mph over 1100 miles cost me 4 hrs or so addl travel time. We don't take many 12 hr eah way trips...if we did id want to upgrade my tires. For now...slow and safe.

[DocData757]

I am getting (have gotten) discouraged. It seems to get a good tire, I have to change the rims which is really going to drive the price up not to mention the possibility of reducing the clearance between my rig and the tires to an unsafe amount.

If I were to go with the Yokohama tires (a brand I have had great experience with on vehicles BTW), I would need the new rims, obviously. This is going to cost around $2400. The only long haul I have planned for the future is from FL to Alaska so I have to bite the bullet and go with it (one I am sure I have the clearance for it).

So, speaking of clearance, what so of dimension am I looking for?

[chivas]

I personally went with the Maxxis because I have a 2102 Alpine and because of the weight I did not have much of a choice without going to different rim size. Did not want the Goodyear Marathon or Carlise. Too much bad press.

I recently had a blowout with the Towmax tires. Caused 2.5K in damage.......... Not overloaded, correct tire pressure, drove under 65, and they were only 10 months old. Now I am going to monitor with TST TPMS.

Everyone has to make the choice. If these do not work I will buy Rickson 17.5 rims and some G rated tires. Then install shock on my 5th so it does not shake apart.