Questions on upgrading to a 3/4 Ton

[Winnie2020]

I have a Keystone Bullet that weighs in at 6,080 unloaded. I thought my 2013 Ecoboost could handle it but going over the Raton NM pass into CO gave me second thoughts. My trailer, gear, truck, and people weighed in at 14,000 which is 1,500 under the GCVW but it struggled in the mountains of Colorado.

I would consider the Chevy or Ford. However, only the Chevy would fit in my garage from a height standpoint and it doesn't fit from a length standpoint. So either the Ford or Chevy would spend most of its time outside and the Chevy would pull into the garage if we knew hail was coming.

I've been told I don't need a diesel for the 3 or 4 times a year we'd tow this Keystone given the upfront cost of a Diesel and the higher maintenance costs. Is that accurate?

The Chevy has fewer options in gas with respect to rear ends and transmissions as compared to the Ford. Only the Chevy Duramax Diesel gets you a 10 speed transmission. Would I be happier with the Chevy Diesel in a 10 speed and being able to pull it into the garage versus a Ford 7.6 gasser with 10 speed and the myriad of rear end ratios I get with the Ford?

I bet we get bad hail 3 times a year max....I've thought about a hail blanket. I just lean towards the Ford and dealing with hail than going a diesel Chevy. But I'm still open minded.

Thanks!

[Winnie2020]

To add to the dilemma, someone suggested that the Ford f150 3.0 diesel would do what I need.

[Bill-2020]

Raton pass is nothing to sneeze at - going up or down, been there and done that many, many times towing and not (used to live in ABQ for 30 years and took that pass several times a year). I hear the 7.3 is a heck of an engine with that 10 speed transmission.

This thread will spark a lot of comments from Ford and Chevy fans.

[jasin1]

You can’t go wrong with a 3/4 ton ..I wouldn’t even consider getting a 150 unless I did absolutely no towing or hauling at all…ever

As far as gas vs diesel? …I like diesel but you may find a gas will fit your needs just fine since your towing is limited.

The diesel I believe will pull through the mountains with little effort but the gas will get the job done.

Diesels hold there value much longer as well but that’s as far as I will go with the comparisons.

If your future plans have any possible bigger rv’s in them you may just want to skip right to a 1 ton truck..then you will be set for almost anything

[mikec557]

Originally Posted by Winnie2020

I have a Keystone Bullet that weighs in at 6,080 unloaded. I thought my 2013 Ecoboost could handle it but going over the Raton NM pass into CO gave me second thoughts. My trailer, gear, truck, and people weighed in at 14,000 which is 1,500 under the GCVW but it struggled in the mountains of Colorado.

I would consider the Chevy or Ford. However, only the Chevy would fit in my garage from a height standpoint and it doesn't fit from a length standpoint. So either the Ford or Chevy would spend most of its time outside and the Chevy would pull into the garage if we knew hail was coming.

I've been told I don't need a diesel for the 3 or 4 times a year we'd tow this Keystone given the upfront cost of a Diesel and the higher maintenance costs. Is that accurate?

The Chevy has fewer options in gas with respect to rear ends and transmissions as compared to the Ford. Only the Chevy Duramax Diesel gets you a 10 speed transmission. Would I be happier with the Chevy Diesel in a 10 speed and being able to pull it into the garage versus a Ford 7.6 gasser with 10 speed and the myriad of rear end ratios I get with the Ford?

I bet we get bad hail 3 times a year max....I've thought about a hail blanket. I just lean towards the Ford and dealing with hail than going a diesel Chevy. But I'm still open minded.

Thanks!

Okay, I'm biased.

I sold our literally almost new Chevy half ton because it wasn't enough truck. Entirely my fault for not educating myself well enough.

We bought a GMC 3500hd Duramax, new, at the end of the 2018 model year. Until then I had never pulled with diesel. If cost is not a hindrance, then I say buy the diesel.

We just pulled our 9000lb+/- TT from AZ into Colorado. Almost exclusively under 2000 rpm.

Some will say gasser is all you need, which may be true. But if you say diesel is affordable and will fit in the garage when you need it to, then you have your answer. :-)

PS part of my decision to buy the 3500HD Duramax was the pain I felt in losing $10k selling the half ton. I told myself I don't ever want to sell my truck at a loss again because my RV choice (s) were too much for it. We decided we don't ever want a dualie/sp, so chose single rear wheel diesel and told ourselves we can buy any RV we want that it's capable of pulling.

[wiredgeorge]

You will get a lot of opinions based on folk's personal preferences. I will tell you that most any 1/2 truck won't be happy with a 33' camper in tow; not just power but the wheel base is inherently too short. As far as diesel vs gas, I have a diesel but as you noted, a bit more up front and a bit more in maintenance. Don't be swayed by brand loyalties but get the one that suits your needs best especially if you are an infrequent towing family and the truck will be a grocery getter and box store hauler the rest of the time.

[Northofu1]

The only advantage getting a 2020 or newer GMC/Chevy Diesel or gas 2500 is that the GVWR / Payload on those trucks is higher than Ram or Ford (For now) The current Ford 250 Gas or diesel will be more than adequate also. As previously stated, if you are even thinking about upgrading in the near future to medium to large sized 5er get the 1 ton. Anything from medium (based on personal safety comfort level) to extra large 5er requires a dually. Good luck

[travelin texans]

If the Chevy 2500 diesel fits in the garage so should the 3500 version, the price, ride, mileage & size will all be relatively the same then when you upgrade to a bigger RV your good to go as far as trucks are concerned.
Personally if towing any rv diesel is the #1 choice! How many OTR trucks have you seen using gas engines? There's a reason for that! Diesels are meant to move the load.

[jfk69]

I guess I’d ask myself how far I pull and how often I hit the mountains. I make no bones that I’m a Ford and Ram guy. With that said, all three make a high quality vehicle. Find the one you like best. You won’t be disappointed.

On the diesel vs gas question, it’s the great debate on every RV forum I frequent. When I was looking to replace my Ram 1500 TV, I was looking for a 2500/250/3500/350 gasser. I found my sig rig on a lot and ended up buying it. I had no plans to ever buy a diesel. The modern gassers with 8 or 10 speed trannies will handle most of your needs very well, even big passes. You will live with ultra high rpm whine and lower gas mileage. The diesel will pull it without effort, at a higher cost up front and for maintenance. Pick your poison.

The diesel will have higher resale, if that matters. For me, never wanting a diesel, I won’t go back. I love the power/torque. But everyone needs to review their own situation. We live in good times. Whatever you decide will leave you with a quality tow vehicle. Drive them all, look at your situation, and pick what works best for you.

[sourdough]

Winnie I live in Lamesa about 60 miles S of Lubbock. Yes, we get hail etc. and I take care of my trucks and they never sit outside. As far as diesel vs gas (a HUGE conversation with some), it simply a matter of need and function.

You said you will use the truck to tow 3-4 times a year vs the 10-12k cost for a diesel for those 3-4 trips....for a 7600 gvw trailer....makes no sense IMO. As those that advocate a diesel at any cost say; it's the best vehicle to TOW...exclusively. Many facets to getting a diesel to tow vs all the cost etc. It all depends on what you have and your towing habits. A diesel is THE thing to have for heavy trailers that tow lots of miles. For those that don't live and die by towing a 15-20k trailer, with the advances of modern gas engines, the gas engine is a very viable option for trailer up to 15k these days with the right engine, tranny and axle ratio.

I've been over Raton Pass many times and it can be strenuous but IMO nothing like Wolf Creek Pass. If you take those passes 2-3 times a year is it worth 10k to do it so you don't hear your engine straining a little? It doesn't bother me a whit.

In the end it's up to you and what you think you need but don't be mislead that the only appropriate vehicle to tow a 7800gvw trailer is a diesel, that is far, far from the fact of the matter. If I were you I would definitely look into the new 7.3 Ford Godzilla engine, I've read nothing but good things about it. Do your homework on gas vs diesel (been doing this for 60 years) and see what fits YOUR situation. If you intend to go to a bigger trailer you need to seriously look into what a diesel has to offer for you in the torque dept. - something a gas engine can't match.

[bcintx]

I was in a similar situation as you in 2016. Had a travel trailer that grossed at just under 8000 lbs and 30 feet. I was towing it with a Tahoe that was just barely under on all of the weights (because the only thing that was in the back of the tahoe was the two dogs.) Pulling the trailer from Phoenix to Greer AZ (elevation change of 7270 feet) convinced me that I needed more truck.

I upgraded to a 2016 F250 with the 6.7. Let me say that I love that truck. It pulled that travel trailer with ease, even up I 40 through Asheville NC.

However, I upgraded from the travel trailer to a fifth wheel this year that grosses in at 12,300. Even though I pulled it through Raton pass just last month on the way home from Yellowstone with my F250 and it pulled that fifth wheel just fine. I am over the 10,000 pound GVWR. If I had bought a 1 ton single wheel at that time I would be fine.

I have ordered a 2022 f 450 (we will see how long it takes to come in with all of the parts shortages but that should be its own thread) because I find that I am now more comfortable with having lots of extra truck.

Long story to say that if you even think that you might go bigger on the trailer I would skip the 3/4 ton and go right to a 1 ton of whatever flavor floats your boat.

[flybouy]

This subject has been discussed adnauseum for years. Your question " will I be happy? " can only be answered by you. The only thing I'll add is to consider how long you anticipate keeping your trailer and your truck. Also consider this first year of 3 or 4 trips over the pass. Will that really be the norm? What's the possibility that "you just love that cg on the other side of the mountian and now that the truck can comfortably take you there it turnsn nto a "more often than not" destination?

If you're a "get a new truck when the floormats get dirty" kind of guy then buy a gasser thst will "get the job done" and don't worry ahout running the guts out of it at high rpm. It will be the next owners problem and you can "trade up" to more truck if you go bigger on the trailer. If you're a "get your money out of it" and keep it for 10 years then I'd go bigger (as in 1 ton) and go deisel. Then you would have a fer greater range of trailers available and I beleive the increase cost will be far exceeded by the value of the diesel.

JMHO, YMMV

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Winnie2020

To add to the dilemma, someone suggested that the Ford f150 3.0 diesel would do what I need.

If considering a diesel, I don't know that getting one in a 1/2 ton would be a good fit. Due to the heavier weight, the payload on any truck equipped with a diesel will be lower than it's gas counterpart and payload is definitely not something you want to lose in a 1/2 ton truck. The torque generated by the 3.0 diesel is also less than the 3.5 gas EB engine.

This weight factor is another reason a lot of people jump directly to the 1-ton when going diesel.

[Winnie2020]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Winnie I live in Lamesa about 60 miles S of Lubbock. Yes, we get hail etc. and I take care of my trucks and they never sit outside. As far as diesel vs gas (a HUGE conversation with some), it simply a matter of need and function.

You said you will use the truck to tow 3-4 times a year vs the 10-12k cost for a diesel for those 3-4 trips....for a 7600 gvw trailer....makes no sense IMO. As those that advocate a diesel at any cost say; it's the best vehicle to TOW...exclusively. Many facets to getting a diesel to tow vs all the cost etc. It all depends on what you have and your towing habits. A diesel is THE thing to have for heavy trailers that tow lots of miles. For those that don't live and die by towing a 15-20k trailer, with the advances of modern gas engines, the gas engine is a very viable option for trailer up to 15k these days with the right engine, tranny and axle ratio.

I've been over Raton Pass many times and it can be strenuous but IMO nothing like Wolf Creek Pass. If you take those passes 2-3 times a year is it worth 10k to do it so you don't hear your engine straining a little? It doesn't bother me a whit.

In the end it's up to you and what you think you need but don't be mislead that the only appropriate vehicle to tow a 7800gvw trailer is a diesel, that is far, far from the fact of the matter. If I were you I would definitely look into the new 7.3 Ford Godzilla engine, I've read nothing but good things about it. Do your homework on gas vs diesel (been doing this for 60 years) and see what fits YOUR situation. If you intend to go to a bigger trailer you need to seriously look into what a diesel has to offer for you in the torque dept. - something a gas engine can't match.

Wow, great responses from everyone and I'll consider the 3500 for sure.



I'm wondering what folks that have had both larger gas and diesel engines think the maintenance cost difference is between gas and diesel?



Does the resale value of diesel offset the extra maintenance?


For those that have had gas and diesel what are the gas mileage differences?

[Winnie2020]

Originally Posted by markcee

If considering a diesel, I don't know that getting one in a 1/2 ton would be a good fit. Due to the heavier weight, the payload on any truck equipped with a diesel will be lower than it's gas counterpart and payload is definitely not something you want to lose in a 1/2 ton truck. The torque generated by the 3.0 diesel is also less than the 3.5 gas EB engine.

This weight factor is another reason a lot of people jump directly to the 1-ton when going diesel.

Agreed. You can look at the trailering specs Ford puts out and the 1/2 ton large ecoboost engine out performs the 1/2 ton diesel in every category except gas mileage. I really didn't understand that recommendation.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Winnie2020

Wow, great responses from everyone and I'll consider the 3500 for sure.



I'm wondering what folks that have had both larger gas and diesel engines think the maintenance cost difference is between gas and diesel?



Does the resale value of diesel offset the extra maintenance?


For those that have had gas and diesel what are the gas mileage differences?

Im not one to document maintenance costs because I figure it is what it is…that being said I have had and do have Hemi gas engines in 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton pickups as well as having 3 different generations of cummins diesels in ram pickups.
You will pay a little more in oil for your truck with a diesel although the quantity difference is likely offset with possibly needing synthetic for the newer hemis and GM’s/Ford counterparts.
Mpg should and will be better but again not a huge difference
Diesel engines in my opinion are built to a higher degree of dependability..
My last truck had 100000 miles and only replaced fan clutch.
Your gonna have fuel filter changes and cost of def fluid but IMO the satisfaction you get on almost a daily basis with how well it performs and drives will be worth any additional cost.
And when you go to sell it you will have no trouble getting a premium price even with high mileage ( “just getting broken in”)…is what you will here from prospective buyers

My newest truck is more popular then me or my wife at the campground lol
I’ve had more people stop to talk about it in the last 6 months then all of my other trucks
I don’t think I ever met a person that regretted going to diesel .

[dutchmensport]

Originally Posted by Winnie2020

...

I've been told I don't need a diesel for the 3 or 4 times a year we'd tow this Keystone given the upfront cost of a Diesel and the higher maintenance costs. Is that accurate?
...

“You really need to think in terms of what is the ultimate extreme usage you'll be experiencing with your tow vehicle, not what is the lightest usage and hope it's OK when the extreme happens."

[Badbart56]

My two cents, if you've never towed with both diesel and gas it's hard to understand what the difference will be. It's a shame you can't test drive these trucks under load in real world conditions. I truly believe they would sell even MORE diesel trucks if they did.

The last gas powered truck I owned was a regular cab 89 C2500 and it was used to tow farm equipment, hay, horse trailers, etc. The fuel injected 350 coupled with the 5 speed manual transmission sounded like it was gonna blow up on some of the hills it pulled. But it got the job done. Slowly, holding up traffic at times, but it got me where I needed to be. The next truck was a Ford F350 with the infamous 7.3 turbo diesel. Wow! Like day and night! Welcome to the world of torque! No more 5000 rpm grades. I was liking this! And where the Chevy gasser would get 19 mpg empty (yes, I was surprised too, the ones with automatic transmissions were only getting 14 mpg empty) the F350 crew cab dually got 20.7 mpg. The mileage you get with the newer 3/4 or one ton trucks vary but the diesel will get better mileage empty or loaded.

My brother still uses Chevy and Dodge diesel trucks on the farm. Some of them have over 300K miles on them. The only real cost difference in maintenance will be a higher cost for oil changes due to the diesel using 15 quarts of oil compared to 5-7 for gassers and fuel filters are higher. Ford uses two filters (I have two extra auxiliary fuel filters on mine), not sure if the newer Dodge or Chevys have one or more. So it's not like it's going to cost an extra thousand dollars a year.
As for me, my truck hauls the 18K pound Fuzion around occasionally and a 28 foot race car trailer that weighs around 6K pounds. (really don't even know it's there) If I didn't have the big Fuzion I really wouldn't NEED the diesel, but having had both, I'm staying with the diesel. If you have a tight budget, I can understand, that can make your choice for you. And that is a factor for many, I fully understand. I've been there before. But at this point in life I'm able to have what I want more than what I need and I'll pick the diesel every time.

I remember an old saying I heard years ago. I never met anyone who said, "I wish I'd never learned to play the piano."

Well, I never met anyone that owned a truck who said, "I wish I didn't have all this torque and horsepower."

Good luck with your decision. Just make yourself happy!

[mikec557]

Originally Posted by Winnie2020

...
I'm wondering what folks that have had both larger gas and diesel engines think the maintenance cost difference is between gas and diesel?...

I've wondered what people mean when they say a diesel has higher maintenance cost.

I've put 65,000 miles on our 2018 GMC 3500hd Duramax, which I mentioned earlier, we bought new.

I've paid $90-$140 at various locations across the country for a full synthetic oil. My GMC holds 10 quarts. The computer tells me when to change the oil and that varies by towing and not towing. But in general it's about every 7500 miles.

DEF, diesel exhaust fluid. 95% of my DEF I have bought Walmart brand. When the computer tells me I'm down to 30% full (of DEF), I add two 2.5gal jugs. They're just under $7 each. I have also used $10 autozone brand, $15 Blue Def, and once, JUST ONCE, $25 for 1gal of DEF at a truck stop somewhere. Long story I can tell some other time. When towing I get 1000-1400 miles on the 5gal of DEF. When not towing I get about 4400 miles. When we're NOT camping and I'm just a grocery getter and dog hauler, I don't keep any extra DEF in the truck bed. When we are out camping I carry 1 or 2 (2.5gal) jugs in the truck bed so I don't care when the computer tells me it's time.

Fuel filter is located on the frame rail at about the driver side door. The shop charges $65-70 to replace. The filter is cheap, but it's a messy job. I'm guessing it's about a 15,000 mile replacement. But the computer will tell you when it's time.

Allison transmission spin on filter. Again, about a $15 filter, but the shop will charge $75-100. I think GMC said at 45,000 mile interval. But Duramax/Allison fans say do it every 30,000 miles.

As you can see, some of these costs would be the same for a gasser (fuel and tranny). But it gives you an idea of "diesel maintenance."

[Stealthsr9]

I was in the same situation when we upgraded to a Bullet 330 BHS. My dealer was kind enough to allow me to purchase a camper that was just under the tow capacity of my 2016 5.7 liter Tundra. I recently upgraded my TV to a Chevy 2500HD with a 6.6 liter gas engine and I don’t regret the purchase. Recently towed from Baton Rouge to San Antonio and the truck performed beyond my expectations. Chevy averaged a little better than 10 mpg at 69 mph which far exceeds the 6-8 at 60 mph I was getting in the Tundra and doing it well below the tow capacity and GCVW which gives me great peace of mind. Of course the trip did not include any mountainous terrain like you travel but we did have some hilly country. I have pulled my camper with a diesel and I have to say it was an easy tow and fuel mileage was better while towing but when I decided to upgrade I just couldn’t justify the additional cost of a diesel. My truck is a daily driver and I am averaging around 16 mpg combined city and highway driving. You will get many opinions and all of them are correct based on the individuals personal experiences so it will pretty much be on you to decide whether to go diesel or gas. I personally love my new Chevy and do not regret the purchase. Whatever you choose going to a 3/4 ton will be an upgrade you won’t regret. Good luck with your search.