Electrical meltdown

[blubuckaroo]

I've experienced low voltage at RV parks during hot weather. When everyone has their AC running and trying to get their trailer cooled down. It usually happens in late afternoon when the majority of the residents arrive. During this time, the A/C is running continuously, and not cycling on and off like normal.
This low voltage causes the amperage to increase to keep an inductive load running.
You really need to monitor this voltage, because it's really hard on the motor windings in the A/C compressor.

[terrythetech]

Originally Posted by kksfish

I would have to lean toward a corroded male cord end or one that was not seated completely in the female side....clean the blades and use a little dielectric grease on it and make sure it firmly seated when plugged in. The 30 amp breaker at the pedestal should have opened under that condition so there’s also the chance that breaker is defective it has probably been opened and closed hundreds of times in its life under all a load which can lead to failure!
I’m not completely convinced that a EMS would have prevented this......they would have protected the wiring in the trailer from lots of different faults but this occurred at the pedestal.

di-electric grease or silicone grease should never be put on the blades of a conductor. It does not conduct electricity and could cause the connector to heat up. Di-electric grease is used for sealing up the outside of a connector to keep water out but should never be put on a conductor. See article attached.
http://www.differencebetween.net/tec...licone-grease/
May I suggest...
https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/025...solution-spray

[German Shepherd Guy]

So, short answer everyone, would a pedestal mounted EMS have prevented this?
Oak

[Frosty46]

One of two possible paths here. One is your cable had a short in it and the breaker on that circuit did not function properly. Other one is serious overloading and the aforementioned faulty breaker. Long before your plug in got that hot something should have tripped and opened that circuit. Best have a electrician look into it for you and should speak with park owner who may have enough knowledge to know what happen and pay to correct the damages.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by brucem26

This is the 30 amp end of our 50 amp to 30 amp connector. It was in between the 50 amp cable coming from the trailer do the 30 amp extension cord plugged into the campground. The two were literally fused together. The 25 foot 30 amp extension cord is shot as well. Does anyone have any ideas what would have caused this? We will replace it today of course but not sure why it would have happened in the first place.

My specialty is tires but I have attended a few seminars on RV electrics.


Sounds like you had both a ?? foot 50A cord plus a 30' 30A extension cord running to the campground pedestal with the 50>30 adapter in the middle? No mention of a good EMS (Electrical Management System) protector anywhere.


"Deoxit" is the product you need to clean and protect ALL your electrical connections. I bought from Amazon and have used for a few years.



My Class-C is 30A but I bought and use a 30A Surge Guard Portable Total Electrical Protection 34931
and if you are going to plug into 30A Campground pedestal you need some serious electrical protection, not just a basic surge protector. My unit has already warned me about an improperly wired pedestal at a campground in KS so IMO it paid for itself in the first year of use.
The 34931 and it's 50A brother 34951 appear to be some of the best systems to protect your RV electrics. These suits don't just protect from low or high voltage coming into the protector but also can shut down if there are problems on the RV side of the unit.

Here is video info on Electrical protection from a fellow RV owner. Even if you decide to not get a real electrical protection system you aught to at lease listen to this safety info as it could save you some big bucks ireven an RV electrical fire.

[blubuckaroo]

We're newbies here because our old trailer had no A/C, or water heater. So now, our new trailer has all the stuff and we're learning.
This summer, we pulled into an OR State Park campground, and plugged into the 30 Amp shore power. I turned on the A/C, electric water heater, and a little electric "Opal" ice maker we carry. We quickly tripped the 30 amp main breaker in our panel.
My experience as an electrician led me right away to adding up the loads. We were very close to the 30 amps with just the water heater and A/C. The little Ice maker is 2 amps, and the battery charger is unknown.
Bottom line is, be aware of what you've got turned on. Biggies are coffee makers, hair dryers, and microwave ovens.

So, is it normal to turn the electric water heater on only when needing hot water?
Only when not using A/C?
When do I use electric and when do I use the propane for the water heater?

[Jerry S]

56ft is going to be very minimal voltage drop, that is not his problem.

Originally Posted by JJaxon

You were using the 25' cord plus this adapter plus a 30' extension to the source? That's 56 feet, I suspect voltage drop played a part in this and the demand with a 50amp unit running on a 30 amp supply - this is the result eventually. Eliminate the 30ft extension and get an EMS to plug in at the power source first.

[gearhead]

Watching the amps on a portable Progressive EMS=cheap entertainment.
How many amps does the residential refrigerator draw? Let me go look.
OK. Now let's turn on a 15K BTU A/C.....
I bet you a beer it's over 12....Naa, you think? Yeah, and no Bud Lights.

[KeithInUpstateNY]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

OP, if you could please explain more fully what was plugged into what and the rating of the circuit breakers in the campground power pole that your trailer was powered from.

Unfortunately, the OP never responded to John's request for clarifying information so it is almost impossible to give any meaningful advice. There are too many pieces of equipment involved and the sequence they were connected in from the post to the trailer would affect how they performed. As John said, we don't even know what amp outlet was used at the post.

[WDPatterson]

Always err to the side of caution. Minimize the length of cable you you need to use to get your power. Never use a 30 amp extension cable for a 50 amp service on your trailer. If you have a 50 amp trailer cable, you need to use a 50 amp extension, and as short as possible. Otherwise, park closer.

The answer to what happened is very simple. You have a trailer which pulls 50 amps or more coupled to a less capable extension cord. Never use an extension cord unless you absolutely have to. When you do, keep in mind what kind of load you're pulling. If you're running a 50 amp power supply cord on your trailer, you likely have two air conditioners. If you only have a 30 amp service, you're probably going to want to limit yourself to running one air conditioner at a time.

As the electrician above said, you need to pay close attention to the draw you are creating with your air conditioner, your refrigerator, your water heater, your ice maker, your blow-dryer, and anything else you may run.

You may have to turn one thing off to use another, this is an acceptable practice. However, you should never, ever, run a 30 amp extension cord in between your 50 amp trailer and the pedestal.

If all you lost is your 30 amp extension cord and it's connectors, you got off easy. These things can start fires, they can be very dangerous.

Here's hoping that you can put a new end on your 50 amp cable, and keep on going.

[blubuckaroo]

This sort of reminds me of the time the In-Laws used my 16 gauge weed eater cord instead of the nice 12 gauge cord I had there for them at my house. They arrived and plugged in before I got home from work. When I got home, their A/C was running, and that little cord was too hot to pick up.
Funny thing is, they're long time RVrs, and still didn't understand why the microwave oven wouldn't work.

[beeje]

There is simple rule I follow and have tried to convey to my DW. On 30 amps You can NOT operate more than 2 items that produce heat or cold as the same time.
ie. water heater and a/c
water heater and toaster
a/c and toaster
toaster and blow drier

You get the idea. With the a/c running and the water heater on, Mom starts making toast for breakfast while the daughter is stating to blow dry her hair. Hence the overloaded/ melted cord.

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by blubuckaroo

This sort of reminds me of the time the In-Laws used my 16 gauge weed eater cord instead of the nice 12 gauge cord I had there for them at my house. They arrived and plugged in before I got home from work. When I got home, their A/C was running, and that little cord was too hot to pick up.
Funny thing is, they're long time RVrs, and still didn't understand why the microwave oven wouldn't work.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, right there!! 😁😜🤪

It took me six months to train my wife on this very thing.

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by beeje

There is simple rule I follow and have tried to convey to my DW. On 30 amps You can NOT operate more than 2 items that produce heat or cold as the same time.
ie. water heater and a/c
water heater and toaster
a/c and toaster
toaster and blow drier

You get the idea. With the a/c running and the water heater on, Mom starts making toast for breakfast while the daughter is stating to blow dry her hair. Hence the overloaded/ melted cord.

We're off grid, and we're running on a generator. We also have solar, and are upscaling it as we go. That said, you can certainly tell when you're starting to pull a heavy load, as that generator starts to lug. Sooner or later, the heat limiter switch will trip, and power goes out. Fortunately, the generator keeps running, the switch cools, and the power comes back on. Most of the appliances have a safety that doesn't turn them back on. They stay off until you push the on button. So, everybody has to learn their lesson.

The nice thing about having a generator is that you don't get surges, and you can certainly hear when you're putting too much load on the system. Hooked up to shore power doesn't really help you at all, in that respect.

Nevertheless, it's an important safety concern that should be trained on everyone who uses the appliances.

[McRod]

Originally Posted by brucem26

... Does anyone have any ideas what would have caused this? We will replace it today of course but not sure why it would have happened in the first place.

Yeah, you were drawing too much amperage through the cord. Get a surge protector/EMS to put between the pedestal and your cord. Google progressive EMS.

[McRod]

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy

So, short answer everyone, would a pedestal mounted EMS have prevented this?
Oak

No. An EMS is not a circuit breaker (which regulates the amperage). It's primarily a voltage regulator (volt surges or losses, or miss wiring).

The damage happened because the OP used a 30A extension cord plugged into a 30A power source, then connected that 30A extension to a 50A via dog bone and drew too many amps from his 50A RV. The ohms (aka electrical resistance) is what fried his dog bone. Wasn't a poor connection, bad wiring, etc as others have suggested.

[kksfish]

Terrythetech


I read your referenced article but I would add that if one were to search for differing views you would find plenty! I have used it for many ,many years including lubricating elbows and boots in high voltage terminations and for sealing, lubrication, oxidation in lower voltage connections with great success and will continue to do so. I think it’s one of those products that each of us will have to decide for ourselves to use or not!
Another view can be found at https://www.nyelubricants.com/stuff/...tors_final.pdf

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by kksfish

Terrythetech


I read your referenced article but I would add that if one were to search for differing views you would find plenty! I have used it for many ,many years including lubricating elbows and boots in high voltage terminations and for sealing, lubrication, oxidation in lower voltage connections with great success and will continue to do so. I think it’s one of those products that each of us will have to decide for ourselves to use or not!
Another view can be found at https://www.nyelubricants.com/stuff/...tors_final.pdf

This supports your observation. And, it gets more specific.
https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

[GMcKenzie]

Surprised at the number of people running AC and water heater on 30 amps. My display (PI) shows me pushing 30 amps on AC startup if I have the WH on electric. Is this not normal?

[blubuckaroo]

Yes.
An induction motor can pull 3 times its running current when starting.