2016 still leaking

LeakyHideout · 03-02-2017, 04:54 PM

I bought my 2016 Hideout fifth wheel last May. I found a soft spot in the roof a few months later and it has been downhill ever since.
Keystone did pay to have the repair but wouldn't replace the rubber membrane. Therefore, much like I had suspected would happen, the leak returned but is worse now. Still in the same spot but is now wet on the inside.
Last time the camper took over two months to "repair". So I asked for a replacement camper while mine is fixed and Keystone won't even return my calls.
This camper is a huge disappointment and I wish I would have never bought it. Just didn't expect to deal with this from a new camper.

Tbos · 03-02-2017, 05:18 PM

Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope Keystone steps up and fixes it for you.

2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

CrazyCain · 03-02-2017, 05:37 PM

Makes me sad when i see these type of posts. Hope in the long run it turns out good for you and Keystone steps up..

PARAPTOR · 03-02-2017, 05:44 PM

OMG I have always been an advocate of dealing with the dealer on warranty work, however in this case this one needs to be driven to the factory and drooped off blocking their front door. I too hope Keystone supports you. Keep us informed.

66joej · 03-02-2017, 05:54 PM

^^^ Agree with all of the above. Heartbreaker to pay hard earned money for a camper and have this kind of trouble with it. Hope Keystone steps up to the plate for you.

LeakyHideout · 03-02-2017, 06:05 PM

Thanks for the support. I'm taking it to the dealership tomorrow but of course it will be next Wednesday before they can check it out. So it'll be back to the waiting game. I'll keep everyone informed of how it goes.

ctbruce · 03-02-2017, 06:53 PM

Curious, are those pictures current or was that from the first leak? Good luck.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

Sherwood · 03-02-2017, 07:47 PM

Wow!! That is sad. Get a hold of Trailer Life magazine. They have a resolution center of their magazine that might help. Last thing Keystone needs is stuff like this to get out. Best of luck to ya. That's terrible.

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**chuckster57** · 03-02-2017, 08:25 PM

Welcome to the forum

Sorry it has to be under these circumstances. As an RV tech with some inside knowledge, I can tell you that I have yet to see any manufacturer give a customer a "loaner" while their unit was being fixed.

How many months was it between your initial purchase and the initial claim for a leak?

I am NOT trying to minimize your frustration, but "routine maintance" including roof inspections for voids in sealant are the customers responsibility after a period of time. How many months between the first repair and second claim?

If at this point I don't know that I would be frustrated with Keystone as much as the dealer that did the initial repair. If it was done properly, it shouldn't have happened again, and since it did itshould be the DEALERS responibility to make it right NOT KEYSTONE.

I am NOT affiliated in any way with Keystone, I do own a Keystone product, and the dealership I work at no longer carries Keystone products, but we do warranty work on Keystone and several other brands.

Again, I am sorry your initial posts here are negative, but I think you may be directing your frustration at the wrong party. I wish you well in your quest to get your unit fixed in a timely fashion and to your satisfaction.

mthopton · 03-03-2017, 02:56 AM

Whether it is the dealership's responsibility to fix their first repair or Keystone's under warranty, given those pics, I'd have no problem contacting an attorney to help with resolution.

I had a Fleetwood E3 popup some years ago with major roof issues. It would swell with water, hold that water and eventually gravity would pull it thru and into the camper. Although out of warranty, we were able to get authorization for a new warranty roof because an attorney was able to do the research and demonstrate a systemic problem with the roofs on 2008 E3s. Unfortunately, the company went under before the roof could be replaced. We sold the camper for a third of what we paid for it due to the roof problems.

Good luck.

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**JRTJH** · 03-03-2017, 06:27 AM

mthompton,

Anyone has the "right" to hire an attorney to represent them. I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but is it the "wisest course of action" ??? That's the bottom line question, at least for me.

Knowing that once an attorney contacts Keystone, they stop all work on the problem, turn the case over to their own legal department and nothing gets done until their own attorneys give them the details on what to do to resolve the case, I'd ask if the delay and "stagnant repair" is worth it to the average RV owner. All that most of us want is to use the RV we bought to do what we bought it for. To hire a lawyer, have the litigation put our RV repair on hold pending the outcome and to not be able to buy a new one, use the old one or "get out of the investment" during the litigation can be a major problem for most of us.

Sure, Keystone "ought to" and the dealer "ought to". By hiring a lawyer, using your own experience, the owner might "win the battle" and get his claim approved, but "lose the war" when the company reorganizes or goes out of business and all ability to be compensated for the problem is gone....

Lawyers might be able to help, but is it the best way to go? I'd say, "Sometimes, but not always".... Tough decision, so choose wisely...

mthopton · 03-03-2017, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

mthompton,

Anyone has the "right" to hire an attorney to represent them. I wouldn't suggest otherwise, but is it the "wisest course of action" ??? That's the bottom line question, at least for me.

Knowing that once an attorney contacts Keystone, they stop all work on the problem, turn the case over to their own legal department and nothing gets done until their own attorneys give them the details on what to do to resolve the case, I'd ask if the delay and "stagnant repair" is worth it to the average RV owner. All that most of us want is to use the RV we bought to do what we bought it for. To hire a lawyer, have the litigation put our RV repair on hold pending the outcome and to not be able to buy a new one, use the old one or "get out of the investment" during the litigation can be a major problem for most of us.

Sure, Keystone "ought to" and the dealer "ought to". By hiring a lawyer, using your own experience, the owner might "win the battle" and get his claim approved, but "lose the war" when the company reorganizes or goes out of business and all ability to be compensated for the problem is gone....

Lawyers might be able to help, but is it the best way to go? I'd say, "Sometimes, but not always".... Tough decision, so choose wisely...

That is a very thoughtful response. I don't disagree but, in my case, we were ready for that course of action. I only brought it up as an alternate approach - assuming that you had reached he point of frustration I had reached. I apologize if I offended.

Best of luck with your repairs.

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**JRTJH** · 03-03-2017, 07:16 AM

No offense taken no apology necessary. There's always "the rest of the story" and more than one option for most problems. Thanks for sharing your opinion, it is an option. I also shared what I've learned about what happens "inside the repair process" once an attorney gets involved. There should be more to consider than just the final outcome. The "journey" to that outcome can become filled with problems and the OP should be aware of as many of those problems as he can before making any "final" decision.....

Thanks for your input.

Ken / Claudia · 03-03-2017, 11:05 AM

I think everyone reading about this realizes that is bad and should not have happened. I am wondering without blame. Since the roof rubber has a warranty under their own not keystone. If it was at fault why would the roof co. not be asked to fix or replace. Why would the dealer fix the area but, leave a faulty rubber roof. When the repair was done, as all repairs they have a limited warranty. It be still be covered.
Getting a lawyer is any ones right but, really like using a bomb when a bullet will work. I would guess that the trailer has insurance on it I know all my RVs do and did. Along with everything I own that has value. That is where to start. Any civil action will take years and the trailer would likely sit unrepaired until it is settled. That lawyer you hire will want money at some point and 30% and up to 50% of any settlement.

dcg9381 · 03-03-2017, 11:20 AM

I run counter to JRTJH's advice. When I had re-occurring (never solved) issues with a 2015, I was super patient with Keystone. I allowed the dealer more than 4 repair attempts and even offered to come out of my own pocket to correctly replace the roof membrane, knowing that it was Keystone's policy not to allow dealers to re-deck the OSB, even though Alpha's own installation instructions require a "smooth surface" for their material to bond to.

Over 180 days in repairs, multiple repair attempts, I asked Keystone if I could use "another dealer" to attempt the repairs - the answer was "no". I asked how many times I had to take it back for the same repair - they didn't get back to me on that one.

Getting an attorney involved worked well in my case. Keystone flew down (or made his local regional rounds, I'm not sure) an inspector from the factory that looks at issues that are pre-litigation. That inspector authorized a return-to-the-factory repair. Dealer indicated that the only way I got that was because I had an attorney contacting Keystone on my behalf, otherwise that individual would not have shown up. Note, I don't know if this is true, but it's what the service manager told me.

The roof was replaced again - completely re-decked this time (I would have partially paid for that repair under warranty, had they taken me up on it), slide openings were re-cut to appropriate sizes, and 1-2 other repairs were made. Total repair time was around 60 days.

Hiring an attorney doesn't necessarily mean litigation. It may make you a "squeeky" wheel, which in my case, after more than 180+ days of patience, I felt was appropriate.

The repairs were never halted. Had we filed a case, I can see that pending litigation might have halted the repair, but that attorney provided Keystone the encouragement they needed to get the thing back to the factory.

Maybe other dealers can do this w/o involving an attorney, but mine was unwilling or unable to. They kept making inadequate repairs each time, repeating the process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

If it was at fault why would the roof co. not be asked to fix or replace. Why would the dealer fix the area but, leave a faulty rubber roof. When the repair was done, as all repairs they have a limited warranty. It be still be covered. ....
That lawyer you hire will want money at some point and 30% and up to 50% of any settlement.

The roof material manufacturer warranties their material only. The warranty doesn't cover improper installation or improper sealing. They can offer a 10+ year warranty because (typically) those materials don't just fail - it's far more common for something else to go wrong. "The roof has a 10 year warranty" - is a bit of a misleading sales pitch.

Part of a potential settlement, if you get one, is compensation for your attorney. If you've taken reasonable and appropriate steps to get your RV fixed, have significant loss of use, and Keystone has been unwilling to complete appropriate repairs to date, you can "sue" for attorney fees, repair costs, loss of use, depreciation, storage costs, finance costs (if financed).

You should absolutely exhaust all options with your dealer first.

My RV was fixed. That's what I wanted out of it. We'll work the rest of it out, but I didn't have to cover the attorney cost up front, nor do I have to pay for a portion of the repair costs. The rest of the "settlement" is still being negotiated, but I've got an RV that I can use now... Keystone will be covering the attorney costs.

Ken / Claudia · 03-03-2017, 12:52 PM

What post #15 is mentioning can work out best for the customer. Without him saying so, this is what is involved. You get a lawyer, go over the problem and what your willing to do about it. 1st step, have the lawyer write up a letter to in this case Keystone. Covering all steps done and not done by Keystone. What you know they did not do right. (not your feelings) what you really know and can prove. Than tell them what your going to if they do nothing or not good enough. If that's all it takes, great. But, know what your willing to do if it does not work out at that point. Some lawyers charge a small amount for that service.

LeakyHideout · 03-03-2017, 06:10 PM

So I fixed the issue today. I used the same dealer I have been working with that made the repairs so they were fully aware of my situation. I did not feel like waiting on the camper to be "fixed" again nor dealing with lawyers. So I traded the camper for another. I lost some money but I am overall happy with the deal I made today. Considering time is money I think I made the right decision.

**chuckster57** · 03-03-2017, 06:25 PM

As long as YOU are happy with the way it worked out, that's what matters. BTW can I ask what you traded for?

LeakyHideout · 03-03-2017, 06:40 PM

I traded for a '15 OPEN RANGE ROAMER RF316RLS. I liked the idea of the PVC roof and it was a good price. This is my fifth camper and I've never tried Open Range or the PVC roof but it looked good and overall has pretty good reviews (from what I've saw).

**chuckster57** · 03-03-2017, 06:56 PM

I hope you have good luck. Feel free to stick around here, we don't discriminate against anybody with a non Keystone product.

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