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Old 11-25-2013, 10:45 AM   #101
greengiant
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I'm new to the forum, but I've had a similar experience as some. Started off 5 years ago with a Dakota 4x4 quad cab with a 5K tow max. Ended up with a 4000lb dry 26' box and I played that game for 3 years until I upgraded truck to a 2011 f250 6.2 gas crew cab short box. Got the bigger truck last year, then got in the market on bigger trailer and now have a 2013 hideout 29bhs TT (7200 dry, 9600 gross).

I was always white knuckled with the dodge towing, and was always trying to haul as little as possible, but that was always hard. Bottom line is, I was unsafe with that setup, but it took me 3 years to change it. It comes down to everyone just being open to what others are saying and don't be too stubborn to listen to good advice. I think we can all agree that we want to be safe, but one persons idea of safe is different that anothers'.

BTW, that TT I have is under 10k gross, and it says in the brochure 'half ton towable', and I've seen guys pulling same size units with 1/2 ton's, and they say they are great, but I just don't know how. When I'm loaded down, my TV feels good, but it seems to me like it would be just like my first set up with the dodge. In fact, I notice a major difference in my towing when hauling 40 gallons of fresh water-I think because Keystone decided to put the fresh take way up on the chassis so it feels like the hitch weight is way high-so I only carry water when necessary.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:46 PM   #102
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Greeniant, I agree with what your saying. Half of my cop job years were in traffic inforcement and I still look at traffic as I travel and notice alot, likely more than normal, it's just hard to quit it. I seen 2 1/2 tons yesterday on the freeway going to work, 1 pickup, 1 suv with large travel trailers both with rear ends dropped down, fronts raised. Fronts of trailers sloped down towards the TV. One had a WD hitch. Both overloaded. Many 1/2 tons can tow trailers thats not the point overloading is unsafe no matter how big the truck.
Fri, a co worker tells me his used Dakota he got last summer as 80,000 miles and it just blew the tranny, than says the guy towed a big boat with it. Bigger than mine (which is 3800 lbs). Is that why it failed, maybe.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:48 PM   #103
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I made the mistake, many years ago, of getting a camper that was too big for my F150. Like an idiot I listened to the salesman saying sure it'll tow it no problem. Towing local it wasn't too bad. We decided to take a trip from Ohio to Florida and it was the trip from hades. When we got back I traded my F150 in for a F350 dually and vowed to never tow over weight again. It's just not worth it. I've had the dually for 13 years and and have towed all over the eastern US with not problems. Our current camper is a 2011 Springdale 311 RESSR with a gross weight of 9700 LBS. I can load the truck and camper up with gear and not have to worry about over loading it.
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Old 01-09-2014, 07:13 PM   #104
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I used to travel with my mom and her boyfriend who used an F150 7700 package for a 26' jayco trailer. They were within weight and safe, but i never liked how the truck struggled going up large hills. When we got into the market, we bought our truck first. I convinced my wife that we were going with the truck that would pull whatever camper we got. Then when we got the camper it pulls it very easily and prevents any added stress (beyond the stress created by all the other drivers). We are so very happy with our setup!
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:48 PM   #105
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I have 30 years experience in Industrial safety management and my training and experience tell me that exceeding any of the maximum established ratings of the manufacturer are by definition unsafe.

Exceeding any of the ratings is in my opinion an unacceptable risk.

My experience in regulatory/industrial safety compliance, accident investigation, hazard recognition and consequence awareness makes any unnecessary risk simply unacceptable to me. All risk can never be eliminated, why accept those that can? Always consider what can happen, and what your families safety is worth to you?
I hear this drum beat continually from our company's safety officer. It is contagious and the reason we recently upgraded our TV. Even though we were within weight limits it didn't feel right at a gut level. To ignore that was unacceptable.

I didn't want another truck payment but when I considered the possible consequences it was a no brainer.
Just sayin'
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:56 PM   #106
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I think the people who are saying it is OK to tow with a small under powered truck are themselves towing with small under powered trucks, because the rest of us are too smart to do something like that.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:28 AM   #107
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I think the people who are saying it is OK to tow with a small under powered truck are themselves towing with small under powered trucks, because the rest of us are too smart to do something like that.
It really depends on how you define "small" and "underpowered"... If you read the most recent Trailer Life magazine, there is an article about the evolution of tow vehicles. As the technical capacities of vehicles improve, so does the capability to carry/tow larger and larger loads using less energy. The automotive and RV industries are changing dramatically. The focus is on lighter, more aerodynamically designed RV's that tow easier. To compare a 5 or 10 year old 30' RV with one of today's 30' "ultra-light" models will demonstrate a significant weight reduction as well as improved towability. What used to weigh 4 tons is now "packed into 3 tons". That means the same "size" RV can be towed safely with a smaller vehicle. The newly revealed 2015 F150 boasts a twin turbo 2.5L ECOboost engine capable of producing more HP/torque than the current 5.0L that's installed in the current model. In that example, "small" and "underpowered" are at opposite ends of the spectrum, and "small" does not mean "underpowered".

If you were around and towing an RV in the 70's, you will well remember that 3/4 ton trucks had about the same payload as today's half ton "HD payload" and today's engine/transmission combinations produce far more rear wheel HP/torque than even the biggest of the 70's model pickups. My F250 has a larger GVW than my BIL's 89 GMC 3500 dually. You simply can't compare "yesterday's trucks" to "today's models".

Just as we evolve in other areas of engineering, automotive engineering is changing rapidly. What is a 'limiting factor" in on perspective of towing, can well be a "signigicant advantage" in another towing situation. Although bigger is usually sufficient, bigger is not always better.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:07 PM   #108
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I will stick my neck out for you, I bought my first travel trailer on an impulse, was 28ft. I believe aerolite older model, did not look at weights at all and pulled it home with a 2 wheel drive pickup about 75 miles and was white knuckled when I got home, knew I screwed up so I got a 4 wheel drive and it was towable and always stayed local, got the urge to upgrade so went and traded for a new Dutchman, was probably 28 foot too, got equalizer hitch and off I went and stayed local, again did not check weights. Upgraded again and got a 35 foot sprinter which I know is 8200 lbs dry, around 1000 tongue weight, upgraded truck to gmc 2500HD diesel, and no I have never sat down and figured all the weights but I know the trucks capacity is 12,800 I believe without the weight distribution hitch I do use, I just assume I am good. I will figure out for sure before first trip for sure. Now you can hammer me
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:58 AM   #109
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I think the people who are saying it is OK to tow with a small under powered truck are themselves towing with small under powered trucks, because the rest of us are too smart to do something like that.
Hey golfpro,

What size truck does it require to be "too smart to do something like that"? I might want to be with the rest of you.

Is the increase in smartness a linear or exponential relationship to the size of our trucks? And, what do you base your statement on? How did you control for variables? How was your study powered? And in your conclusion, what was the p-value?
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:06 AM   #110
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Hey golfpro,

What size truck does it require to be "too smart to do something like that"? I might want to be with the rest of you.

Is the increase in smartness a linear or exponential relationship to the size of our trucks? And, what do you base your statement on? How did you control for variables? How was your study powered? And in your conclusion, what was the p-value?
This is just my opinion based on a lifetime of towing and engineering so take it for what it's costing you... If you exceed the limits set by the manufacturers highly paid design engineers, you might be a few bricks shy of a full load.

It is for now an individual's right to exceed those limits and gamble that their opinion is more correct than the battery of highly paid individuals who are paid those lordly sums expressly to provide a margin of safety for the masses and cover the butts of their bosses and shareholders. Can they be wrong? Certainly... but is it smart to gamble with your life and those unlucky enough to be around you at the moment you find out that those highly paid engineers were right after all.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:39 AM   #111
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This is just my opinion based on a lifetime of towing and engineering so take it for what it's costing you... If you exceed the limits set by the manufacturers highly paid design engineers, you might be a few bricks shy of a full load.

It is for now an individual's right to exceed those limits and gamble that their opinion is more correct than the battery of highly paid individuals who are paid those lordly sums expressly to provide a margin of safety for the masses and cover the butts of their bosses and shareholders. Can they be wrong? Certainly... but is it smart to gamble with your life and those unlucky enough to be around you at the moment you find out that those highly paid engineers were right after all.
Good Morning, Javi. I'm guessing you've had at least 3 cups of coffee already.... <grin>

HOLY SMOKES !!!!!!!!!! (And I thought I spoke in "doublespeak" ) LOL

I think, (yes, it's still early and I'm on my first cup of coffee) <I know, that's another thread>, but I think you said that the "highly paid engineers" establish truck limits and it's not smart to exceed those limits. If you do, it's a gamble with your life and those who might be around you when all heck breaks loose.....

Like you, I pretty much respect the design limits those highly paid engineers build into our trucks. Pushing the limit right to the edge isn't real "smart" and exceeding the limits is just plain da*ned dumb......

Yes, we do have a few members who exceed their limits, some of them just don't weigh their rig. They're the "Ostrich among us". Some honestly believe that if you don't have a 1 ton dually, you shouldn't tow anything bigger than a breadbox. They're the "Macho-men's among us". And there are some who "kinda get it" but think a little bit more won't hurt. They're the "Experimenters among us". Then there are the "realists among us". They do get it..... (and they are the kind of RV'er I don't mind being behind on the interstate.......

When the experimenters and the macho-men get together and when the ostrich meets the CAT (scale that is), things will settle down in the "how big of a truck" category. Will it be "cool" then???? Probably not, we'll just move on to "which oil is best" or "which hitch do you need" or "what pressure to set your water regulator" or some other "equally important discussion"

That's part of what makes this forum so diverse, we get to see (and hear) all kinds of opinions. Some make lots of sense, some we already agree with, and some are so far out there, the Shuttle couldn't get to them in time...... In many of them, a lot of us learn something that's valuable and that will help us in the future.... (If we're not too old to forget we learned it).

So I agree with you, "assemble your bricks" all in one load and don't tow yourself with a "short load"

OK Barney, you "level-headed, forgetful one" time to weigh in with your "brick load"
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:40 AM   #112
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This is just my opinion based on a lifetime of towing and engineering so take it for what it's costing you... If you exceed the limits set by the manufacturers highly paid design engineers, you might be a few bricks shy of a full load.
All points well made. However, all trucks can be overloaded, from mini-pickups to the Peterbilts and Freightliners. To lump all who own 1/2 trucks and pull trailers as less smart than 3/4 and 1 ton owners ... doesn't deserve a description.

Many of us with 1/2 ton trucks have CAT receipts to show we are within the engineers limits. That and a good dose of common sense gets us home every night.

Safe travels, y'all.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:51 AM   #113
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And let's not forget not that long ago trailers were pulled with the family sedan.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:48 AM   #114
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And let's not forget not that long ago trailers were pulled with the family sedan.
Yes... at 40-45 mph topping out at 55 downhill
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:05 PM   #115
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And let's not forget not that long ago trailers were pulled with the family sedan.
And your family sedan weighed as much as todays 3/4 ton pickup.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:38 PM   #116
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Not true around 4,000# which is much less. And the Chevy 327 had up to 360"#of torque.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:22 AM   #117
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Well, The Sunset (HY26) isn't always dry and sunny either. This is a picture from our return from a four day trip to the coast in January 2011. No traffic was not going 55 to 60, more like 35 to 45!!

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Absolutely beautiful picture, thank you. We are here in SoFla 11 years without snow! But we already rented a cabin in Vermont, as well as JGC to get there!
Well did you need to go to Vermont to see snow this year??

Sounds like these may be the driving conditions up on the Panhandle!
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:35 PM   #118
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I see that this post hasn't been active in a while but I wanted to "weigh" in anyway. I'm curious as to what a "safe" number is? For instance, if you were pulling a dry weight trailer of 4300#, with a rig that is capable of towing 6500#, is that too much even after you add 1000lbs of gear? You are still 1200 lbs from the max. I'm not going to get into tongue weights, but you get the point. I think it's funny that some people here think others are foolish for using smaller vehicles to pull their TT. I am by no means advocating exceeding the vehicle manufactured limits but come on, not everyone can afford or even wants a diesel for their daily driver and would still like to enjoy owning a TT. BTW, if anyone thinks that having a diesel dually pickup can some how replace common sense, just check out u-tube and TT crashes. There is a nice one with an "old man" who wasn't that "wise". Another thing, vehicle manufactures have an awful lot to lose if they were to advertise that their equipment could handle more than they actually can. In fact I am of the belief that they understate their capabilities to avoid lawsuits.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:14 AM   #119
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"Safe" is somewhat relative and arbitrary, short of the weight ratings for axles, vehicles and the combination thereof which should not be crossed.

I contributed my thoughts to this thread previously (and other 1/2 ton truck discussions) and will stand by my statements, yes, it can be done. What has been lacking in these threads are the real-life experiences based on a metric we can compare across the various setups.

The reference point I have started relating my experience to is % of towing capacity (for my setup is 80%) or maybe more appropriate is % of GCWR which then also accounts for payload in the tow vehicle (I'm at 89%).

To be clear, I have a 5th wheel and therefore comparisons are apples and oranges to TTs where there is a difference in frontal area and stability. That aside, reality of my experience is that I run out of power on the interstate when trying to hold 60 to 65 mph into headwinds. Typical for my transmission to shift between 4th and 5th (6-speed auto), but in the headwinds (12 to 15 knots and above), I get more frequent drops to 3rd gear with rpms kicking up to 3,500. The engine has nothing more to give at that point.

Braking down a 10% grade was okay last week into Palo Duro Canyon State Park (Texas) and I got out okay. Due to the nature of the road, 15 to 20 mph was fine and it isn't near as long as a climb to crest the continental divide.

For now, I'm happy with the setup. When it comes time to replace the truck and if money is available, I will step up to a 3/4-ton with diesel. Do I feel safe in my configuration? Yes.

Hope this helps.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:47 PM   #120
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l happily running down the road with this...



Heading to Portland, OR next month with this...



Runs and feels good going down the road...plenty of power and plenty of stopping...let the truck do it's thing and the trailer(s) do their thing...together!
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